Thanks. I've never seen him have that many good games from the right. Seems to be at his best in a 4-2-3-1 set up but offers very little when not playing that central role.
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Thanks. I've never seen him have that many good games from the right. Seems to be at his best in a 4-2-3-1 set up but offers very little when not playing that central role.
The truth is much worse. There are only 3 or 4 clubs in whole PL where he would be in first 11. If...
Replace Zaha with Lingard.
We would improve
Palace would be fecked
We would improve
Palace would be fecked
Huh? I wasn’t getting at you at or anyone for that matter. My point is that he plays far more than a ‘squad player’ should. That’s down to us not having a settled starting eleven or a cohesive attacking unit.
Absolute rubbish. He'd be a starter in pretty much every team outside the top 6. Everton and Leicester are the only ones even debatable.
Apologies if I picked you up wrong then fella. Easy done, the nuances of verbal conversation don't come across online.
Absolutely.
I suppose with Lingard it’s always going to be polemic when he’s starting and the team are struggling. He’s definitely worthy of being a squad player but at the minute, he is playing pretty regularly due to us being terrible up top. Unfortunately for him, he’s having a bit of a stinker this season at club level, anyway.
Really? I am talking about front 3 players. In Wolves? West ham? Fulham? Southampton? Watford? Palace? They have better options than Lingard.
"Why when Jesse is involved, is it always polemic?"
Seeing that word written down has given me a weirdly obscure flashback
Sell him, not good enough to start even against the weaker teams like we saw today. Nevermind juventus.
No you didn't. You said he wouldn't get into their starting 11, nothing about the front three positions.
But since you are now changing what you said, I'm curious why you are limiting it to only talking about him playing in his worst position? He'd play either in a three man midfield or behind the striker for the majority of the teams in the league. You know, the positions where he plays well for England and had his best period with us in.
He was our best player today by far. He drew two yellow cards during the first 20 mins and should probably have scored as well. Or Martial should when he set him back up.
Lingard is attacking player. He plays on rw or no10 for us. He had short spell in lw. He is not midfielder. So i am not changing nothing. In 3 man midfield he played how many times for us? 2? 3?
I stand behind my words. In 13-15 teams in league, he wouldn't be in first 11. If he leaves United, his faith would be like Cleverley's. Starter in first few games then bench and then transfer to lower club.
And for bolded part. He is here how much? 5 years? For how long people will mention that 2 good months?
Yeah I thought he was okay? Not really sure why the gloves are off here.
You could see a spine of Peirera, Fred, Herrera with Jesse and Martial on the wing with Sanchez up front. But that would be a hell of a spine replacement, gravitational moves and a whole new direction for the team and a hell of a shift in the accountability structures. Considering Matic seems to be undroppable. Pogba you're just tied to whatever you get out of him on the day and if he's being a sook then you can't really expect him to do anything for us to influence a game.
Don't really like Jesse playing as the third at the tip but he worked hard and did a lot of cover work for Pogba who was jogging around a lot in front of the defense after being caught going forward and us losing the ball.
He played as #8 today together with Pogba as the other #8 and he outperformed Pogba by far. Lingard drew 2 yellow cards from Palace players in the first 20 mins and should have scored as well. Unlucky. Martial should have converted when Jesse remade that chance also.
Great performance today. Wonderful player who just gets better and better; especially when he is used where he was today.
I seriously dont get what game you watched?
Nope. Wouldn't miss him at all if truth is told.
He is a Pep midfielder. Energy, movement, tidy, great touch, close control, stamina, good at dribbling in tight spaces, great shooting technique. His weaknesses are vision and one-on-one dribbling and his passing range is poor. He'd be a top midfielder if he had those two.
For me 3 of those things don’t belong in that list, “great touch” “tidy” “great control” therefore I would say they add to the not a Pep midfielder category.
He is a decent option for us within the squad and at times he is very useful, but if we were a top team at the moment there would probably be less of a need for him.
The most pointless forward I have seen playing for us. Except for his movement, he has zero output and playng him means you need to have 2 goals machine beside him to compensate.
United is the nly club that I see depending that much on a forward who doesn't score or affect the game because he runs a lot or is a local lad.
In any othe club he will be a squad at best player who plays when we want to rest our starters but hey that's United. We have accepted mediocrity and some are defending regularly anyway.
United is the nly club that I see depending that much on a forward who doesn't score or affect the game because he runs a lot or is a local lad.
In any othe club he will be a squad at best player who plays when we want to rest our starters but hey that's United. We have accepted mediocrity and some are defending regularly anyway.
And yet Mourinho just can’t stop playing him.
Seriously I’m gonna ban the next person who uses that in their reasoning. He obviously doesn’t play because of where he is from! It’s such a lazy argument
Second point - he’s in poor form, for United, so far this season. Last season he was 2nd top scorer when they came 2nd.
That says to me that he’s a good squad player with useful qualities that would be highlighted more with a different coach. He is not the worst player in the squad or the team for that matter.
3rd point, unless you’re blind, you should have noticed that pretty much every player has been shit this season
He's not in poor form.
That's his own level. That's what he has been here ever since he started to get games regularly in LVG second season. The only exception was the purple patch of last season, that's about it.
That's not the first season we saw him here to conclude he's just in poor form. When a player is terrible for 4 seasons except for 4 months, you don't go on and say he's in poor form ! You say it was a purple patch.
You have to take into account that his ‘purple patch’ was the first time he was played consistently in his proper position not shunted to right wing where every man and his dog will tell you he will play shit. Let’s have some context
That's a good point but there is another context, if we are going to play him number 10 we will have to play with Pogba in 2 men midfield where he usually stinks the place. Should we choose to play Lingard or Pogba in their favorite position ? I guess everyone will say Pogba.
I agree. Although personally I believe his best role I as a side midfielder in a 4-3-3
He was excellent in the first half yday. He outshone Pogba completely; both playing #8s. It is obviously where he should play. Why Mourinho took him off first is beyond my understanding. Sometimes I wonder if posters here actually watch the games or just log on to the Caf and post their own old narratives.
I seriously hope that yesterdays result doesnt mean that he gets shunt out to RW again or benched. Matic needs to be replaced first and foremost, with a modern #6 in that position; Pogba and Lingard as #8s would make up an excellent modern midfield. Not going to happen under Mourinho though I am afraid.
There in lies the problem. Rather than try and shoehorn everyone in we’re back to crying out for a structure and defined playing style. That’s not lingards fault. It’s the coaches fault for being inconsistent.
Lingard is a good squad player that can thrive when we need to add movement and runs to open up the play. Obviously that’s at odds with Mourinho and his game plan of hitting it long to Lukaku. Not gonna bring out the best in Pogba or lingard
Yeah that's where I am with Lingard. Trashing him like he's the reason we're struggling is ridiculous, there's no way he should be starting on the right for any team with top aspirations but he has his uses. He's the kind of player who'll disappear in a struggling team, there's zero chance of him dragging a poor team through like a Keane, a Beckham or a Rooney could but if that's the level we expect every squad player to reach we may as well pack it in now.
I think the fact he's playing regularly despite being squad player quality has a lot more to do with the quality of his competition than it does him surely? It's not his fault the management / board aren't doing the business in the transfer market, he's just doing his best when called on.
The problem is, some of our players are good in certain formations which expose the others. You can't Lingard or Mata in number 10 without exposing Pogba, and you can't play Pogba in LCM without exposing Lingard and Mata. You can't combine them together and considering that Lingard and Mata output are mostly underwhelming ( for long time for Lingard and currently for Mata ), then they have no business starting if we are going with Pogba.
He's a good squad player but he shouldn't be a starter. There are similar squad players in every big club but they aren't starters. They play to rest the main players for rotation. That's how we should be using the likes of Lingard, not starting week in week out like what we were doing.
I think the fact he's playing regularly despite being squad player quality has a lot more to do with the quality of his competition than it does him surely? It's not his fault the management / board aren't doing the business in the transfer market, he's just doing his best when called on.
Well, I literally criticized us in the post for starting him or defending it. Not sure what's the point. That doesn't mean to not criticize his poor level as well.
The difference between a pivot and double pivot is severly overstated. Its not that big of a difference. If we want to get the best out of players as Pogba, Lingard, Sanchez and Rashford we need to push up our back four 20 meters forward and start to press the fecking ball. If Lingard should play as a #8 or #10 is not that important IMO. He should be playing centrally though, thats true.
But off course none of that is going to happen with Jose so lingard will have to put up with being shunted around to positions that don’t suit and deal with the inevitable fan criticism after
It's not. Different roles to do on the pitch. Pogba doesn't defend and Lingard is very weak so our DMF will get exposed and spaces in midfield will open. I know you're going to throw City in but KDB and Silva have no problem playing dirty. They actually work their socks off on defensive side as much as on offensive side.
Agree we need to push over but that's completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.
The pivot role is more about positioning than defensive work rate. Pogba hasn't learnt the positioning for the role yet. Neither has a Lingard.
Pogba is like a Kroos before he turned 26. Postionally unsound in the role. But with potential for it to be his main role long term.
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You wouldn't criticise a Golf for getting beaten in a drag race by a Bugatti though, it's not apples with apples. He's a good player who's good enough for Manchester United...as a squad player. Anything else is nothing to do with him.
I don't necessarily disagree with your point.
Good point. I remember Kroos and Modric were god awful when they were playing in midfield under Benitez. They started to play like their old form when Casemiro played behind them and solved Madrid's dedensive issues which were exposed thanks to Kroos lack of ability to read the defensive side of the game.
No, of course its not unimportant. I just believe that there are way more important structural issues with how we play that should be addressed before discussing if we would perform better with a single or double pivot.
And I am not going to bring up City, we play a completely different system and I am very much against comparing us to teams that play a completely different type of football structurally.
I do think that players like Lingard and Pogba would do better in a more offensive system though.
I have really warmed to the guy over the past few years. He is fantastic for England and United. He is not the most technically gifted footballer in the world but he has a fantastic work rate and he seems to up his level in the big games unlike many of our squad. Didn’t think it was fair for Jose to include him in the list of players lacking character.
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