He was just as average at number 10, bar that purple patch he had.
14
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 36
- Goals
- 5
- Assists
- 6
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
He was average if you ignore the games when he was good?
We really should try him in a midfield 3 with Pogba IMO.
In the modern day tackling isn't so important but pressing / hassling is. He'd be perfect at that with his stamina.
In the modern day tackling isn't so important but pressing / hassling is. He'd be perfect at that with his stamina.
he looks better for England than at United. Our buildup is slow and rigid. England play much more fluidly and move the ball around quicker than United does, which suits Jesse. The attackers for England also interchange a lot more than United, which again brings out the best in his movement. He isn't great individually, and I don't think he ever will be, but he's a good cog in a system that England currently plays.
Outside of a few bangers, hes largely average.
Not really. He also spent time playing as a number 8. When he played at number 10 he made full use of the space behind Lukaku.
You just described inconsistency. With that respect, Nani was a 'fraud'. One of the biggest there ever was. Players have inconsistent moments. Including world class players like Eden Hazard, Lionel Messi etc. Even Neymar, according to your definition, be called a 'fraud'. Unless I missed your white text ofcourse..
That was the only period he's had where he's played as the #10. He's had a couple of one-off matches here and there, but the only time he actually got a few games in a row there he was one of our better players. Then he got moved deeper into a midfield role (like he's playing for England) and his form dropped off a bit, then he got moved out to the right and his form nosedived completely.
Watching last night I couldn’t help thinking about Southgate at United one day.
This.
Lingard is perfectly suited to a high-pressing possession oriented play. Like Southgate is trying to make work.
He is not a RW, especially not a defensive counterattacking one.
If he should play anywhere in our current setup he should be competing for one of the defensive #8 spots besides (because its not really in front of) whoever of Matic or Fellaini Mourinho plays at #6.
Its not a god fit there either and as much as I love Jesse I dont see him fitting in a Mourinho team, if we dont switch the triangle in the middle and go more for a pure #10.
We need to keep him until we get a new manager.
Pace across front three, is of no use when you cant even win the ball and pass it forward quickly
Well yeah, but he hadn't thought about that part, he was just hoping City would play so high we'd get a chance to kick it forward and we'd have a 3 on 2 breakaway chance.
Scores a terrific goal = gets roundly criticized.
He got into the England team by playing his best football for United. He has not matched that form for England either.
If you ignore those 6-7 games where he scored goals, he was the same average player that barely contributes anything.
Not really? Well I'm using transfermarkt for stats info, and it notes that he played AM for that spell in December, and as LW vs Everton on the 1st of January. Then he continued as AM for the next 5 games and that included losses to Spurs and Newcastle, until he was dropped for Chelsea where he scored the winning goal and it says he played as LW, same like Everton. In the follow up to the end of the season he had 2 assist, 1 playing as a AM and one as a RW. and that does not include the Sevilla game where he played as AM. What I'm pointing out is, that he is the same inconsistent and not god enough player wherever he plays. I'm also using stats, because I think bar the obvious great goals he scores he barely contributes enough in attacking play for him to be considered anything more than average.
That's just not true, or at at least according to the stat site I'm using. After that purple patch he had, he continued as AM, until he was dropped because he was back to his old self.
I must admit I'm impressed by Southgate, would he be good enough to manage United one day?
His form literally started dropping the exact game where he was pulled back deeper. Mourinho himself confirmed a game or two later that we'd switched to a three man midfield, instead of the 4231 that we'd been using for the previous month or so when Lingard was flying. I can't remember exactly which game it was (I suspect it was the Burnley match on the 20th January but I'm not sure), but I remember it was a bit weird that Lingard seemed to be playing deeper only for Mourinho to then say it was a deliberate tactical change. If the stat site you are using doesn't take note of that change happening then it's a fault in the stat site.
From memory he then got moved out to the right before starting to get dropped again, but I could be wrong on that one.
It notes that he played as an AMF, maybe he played deeper I'm not sure from memory but some of the games he is also noted as SS, which makes me think his position stayed more or less the same, but his form dropped off again. If i'm honest I actually feel that England have been using him in the best way as part of the midfield 3. He is never going to be reliable enough to contribute enough offensively, and play as part of a front 3 or front 4 in my opinion.
I sincerely don't want to be part of another Lingard debate since I've expressed my views on him, and that we need better but here I am. Ultimately it's not on him, but on the guy who plays him despite not being good enough.
Southgate's a tricky one for me, he did an admirable job with England in the world cup and it's the most interested I've been in the national team but he's also around at a time where there are a lot of English players benefiting from the absolute best coaches in the world which gives him a bit more freedom with the players/systems he can implement.
A lot of this England team have massively improved individually over the last few years which has definitely helped him out. I do like his willingness to blood new players though, under Capello/Hodgson you'd never see players like Sancho/Cook.
That is true, but he is smart enough to use it in his own benefit. Previous coaches of England had more talented players than he has now, yet failed miserably. That willingness to promote young players you mention is needed considering the success England has had in youth levels recently. I hope he continues in this vein and we finally see England among the top national teams.
He is an AM and a good one. We just currently dont have that role for him. So he fills in on our flanks. Reminds me of the issue Ramsey faces at Arsenal
If he was good enough he would command a place. He doesn't command a place, because he has not been good enough to do so, it is as simple as that. No one is keeping him 'out' of the United team. He is unreliable, inconsistent. An average Premiership player, and there isn't anything wrong with that.
But at a club like United, that simply will not be enough, and will always attract critique.
I still await the 'revolution' of England under Southgate. Southgate has a lot of managerial experience at club level, and he hasn't really done too well right? United is too much for him, he will be exposed.
England is a perfect job for him. Lot's of 'kids' around, no expectations. Lots of attention.
But at a club like United, that simply will not be enough, and will always attract critique.
I still await the 'revolution' of England under Southgate. Southgate has a lot of managerial experience at club level, and he hasn't really done too well right? United is too much for him, he will be exposed.
England is a perfect job for him. Lot's of 'kids' around, no expectations. Lots of attention.
That’s the problem using that site. It’s not accurate.
I can't say you are wrong, since I'm not sure which site is the most reliable, but feel free to provide another source. I use this one since it's very easy and accessible.
The source are the games. He wasn’t really playing as a LW nor was he really playing as a number 10 in the Newcastle game for example. Around the period where everyone wanted a midfield 3, Jesse had a different role. This was around January.
If the source are the games when judging Jesse Lingard, I'm not sure how can someone not see how average football player he really is. Compare his footballing ability to other AMF/RW/LW at other clubs, there are no stats that can advocate his constant involvement in our first eleven.
I think you are missing the point. He does not get the same excuses made for him when he plays out of position. When he was playing at number 10 he was highly effective.
I’m torn on it really. I like his approach to the game, and he has performed well in a really high pressure role. Whether he could manage a group of top, top players remains to be seen.
Who are these players who get excuses? Lingard is hardly new to the winger positions in addition, it's not like he is played at DMF. Most of his career he has played on the wings, both LW & RW.
Highly effective for a month.*
He was highly effetive when played at number 10. When he is moved to RW he is less effective. People judge him based off what he does at RW, rather than what he did at number 10.
Nice impact for England v Croatia.
Scored a goal and cleared one off the line at the other end.
Scored a goal and cleared one off the line at the other end.
Lingard was decisive against Croatia. Scored the goal and that crucial goal line clearance. England would be going home, if it wasn't for him, now "It's" coming home.
He looks way better playing for England because they play a high-pressing possession-based game. He doesnt fit in a defensive counterattacking side as United regardless if you put him at RW, #10 or #8.
Lingard is one of the players that will shine under a new manager in a more attacking setup. Thought his cameo and Rashfords game were the highlights for England today.
He never actually plays right-wing for United. That's just where Sky stick his name on the pre-match graphics.
Its a valid point this. Neither does Mata when he plays, even if the Caf loves to hate on Mourinho for playing Mata out of position.
Mourinho has always liked to play inverted wingers where one of them is even more inverted, and for us it has been "RW". For Mata its actually a perfect position, Lingard not so much IMO.
As I tried to argue above Lingard is not a defensive counterattacking player and if he should compete for a place in this United team with us insisting on a #6 it should be as a #8, but thats not an ideal position for him either since Mourinho demands a lot more positionally and aerially from players in that position than what Lingard can offer.
Yet another player turning up for his national team and not us. It’s got to be our coaching.
He's got a free role when he plays with us, he starts on the right but does tend to drift centrally, especially when Young/Valencia begin pushing up.
He should be playing in a 433 next to Pogba. Midfield of Fred Pogba Lingard would be fun to watch against the shite teams
13 goals in 48 matches last season is hardly 6-7 games where he scored goals
- Status