Jermaine Jenas | Sacked by BBC

Solius said:
Fair enough. I’ll believe the person that was actually alive and there at the time.
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Ok, but you'll have to assume every holocaust survivor has the exact same opinion as her. And not just on this but presumably on everything that happened at that terrible time. For every historical moment, however significant or abhorrent, you'll be able to find people who were alive at the time who have different opinions about it. I dont doubt that many survivors would balk at the notion that modern UK is similar to nazi germany. When we're old we may well give differing accounts on what happened in these years.
 
macheda14 said:
Also you've read it enough in this thread about their chairman, but if you don't think a Tory donor has any say in wider policy then what are you on. Why do you think people like Emily Maitlis have left in recent years?
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I'm sure they do have a say in it. My point is that you can't just decide that everything is made for political reasons. The BBC are struggling at the moment. They are probably making a hell of a lot of decisions they don't want to make due to outside influence. They are heavily funded by the public so and decision that might piss off a large part of the public might not be a good idea.

The people who run the BBC might be doing all this because they are staunch Tories or perhaps its because of the fear that this would damage the BBC.

I have no horse in this race. I like Lineker and hes one of the very few good pundits. I can very much see why he has got in trouble for his tweet though. As I said before. I don't think people should be censored for their views wherever they sit on the political spectrum but he has broken their rules by the looks of it. The debate should probably be whether they are applying those rules equally and why not.
 
The BBC are a bunch of *****, I worked for them and they suck and just waste taxpayers money on stupid wasteful projects and equipment that they never use (hello ATOS)

But still, Ian wright is shit of a moron so this might make MOTD abit easier to watch
 
mctrials23 said:
I'm sure they do have a say in it. My point is that you can't just decide that everything is made for political reasons. The BBC are struggling at the moment. They are probably making a hell of a lot of decisions they don't want to make due to outside influence. They are heavily funded by the public so and decision that might piss off a large part of the public might not be a good idea.

The people who run the BBC might be doing all this because they are staunch Tories or perhaps its because of the fear that this would damage the BBC.

I have no horse in this race. I like Lineker and hes one of the very few good pundits. I can very much see why he has got in trouble for his tweet. As I said before. I don't think people should be censored for their views wherever they sit on the political spectrum but he has broken their rules by the looks of it. The debate should probably be whether they are applying those rules equally and why not.
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Probably something to do with the person now in charge maybe not being politically impartial themselves.

I sincerely hope every self respecting sports pundit tells the BBC to feck themselves for the foreseeable.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
There’s nothing to disagree with it is factually correct.
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well, it isnt, all issues are full of nuance and interpretation and ill refer you to my recent reply to solius. Im not getting involved in ten different back and forths to explain why i think theres a difference between tackling the small boats crisis and nazi germany.

For some context here, I detest the tory party and all of their high ranking selfish narcissist politicians.
 
mctrials23 said:
I'm very much left leaning
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Yeah and I'm very much an actual pigeon.
macheda14 said:
Most BBC presenters, writers, actors etc are left leaning because most people who work in TV are left leaning, most creative people are left leaning. However anyone who thinks the BBC executives aren't right leaning needs their heads wobbling. They quite literally just pulled an Attenborough episode from air because they were worried the right wing might complain. Its bloody Attenborough. Also you've read it enough in this thread about their chairman, but if you don't think a Tory donor has any say in wider policy then what are you on. Why do you think people like Emily Maitlis have left in recent years?
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Let me give you @mctrials23 next response

"I don't believe any of that evidence shows that the BBC is Tory, even if they're run by a literal Tory. What about Matthew Macfadyen when he was on Ripper Street and ate an apple turnover on set? Where was the left wing outrage at that? I'm totally a lefty myself by the way."
 
The BBC has been an arm of the Tory government for years.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Yeah and I'm very much an actual pigeon.

Let me give you @mctrials23 next response

"I don't believe any of that evidence shows that the BBC is Tory, even if they're run by a literal Tory. What about Matthew Macfadyen when he was on Ripper Street and ate an apple turnover on set? Where was the left wing outrage at that? I'm totally a lefty myself by the way."
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:lol:
 
SER19 said:
Ok, but you'll have to assume every holocaust survivor has the exact same opinion as her. And not just on this but presumably on everything that happened at that terrible time. For every historical moment, however significant or abhorrent, you'll be able to find people who were alive at the time who have different opinions about it. I dont doubt that many survivors would balk at the notion that modern UK is similar to nazi germany. When we're old we may well give differing accounts on what happened in these years.
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They both just said that the language and rhetoric used is similar. It didn’t just start with concentration camps. It was a slow process over years which began with the dehumanisation of a group of people using language like that.
 
SER19 said:
well, it isnt, all issues are full of nuance and interpretation and ill refer you to my recent reply to solius. Im not getting involved in ten different back and forths to explain why i think theres a difference between tackling the small boats crisis and nazi germany.
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His views were about the language being used by politicians to discuss this issue. It’s the same language used back then. Dehumanising and divisive.

I say this as someone with a grandfather who experienced this first hand and who has studied the history behind it. It’s factual to compare the language.
 
Solius said:
They both just said that the language and rhetoric used is similar. It didn’t just start with concentration camps. It was a slow process over years which began with the dehumanisation of a group of people using language like that.
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Yes
 
SER19 said:
well, it isnt, all issues are full of nuance and interpretation and ill refer you to my recent reply to solius. Im not getting involved in ten different back and forths to explain why i think theres a difference between tackling the small boats crisis and nazi germany.
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He didn't say they were exactly the same thing, did he? You don't need to explain why you think there's a difference between "tackling the small boat crisis and Nazi Germany". The point was about similarity in language and policy being used to dehumanise groups of people for political gain. There's you nuance.
 
duffer said:
I'd boycott MOTD myself but I don't think I've watched it for about 10 years anyway.
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:lol:
Haven't watched it for alteast 15 years now. Don't see the point or attraction.
Surprised its still going tbh.
 
I think the point of difference here is a that Lineker referenced Nazi Germany which is massively taboo at all levels of society.

If he'd made the same criticism without the reference I doubt he would be relieved of his MOTD duties, rightly or wrongly.

Anyway I seriously hope Jenas doesn't get the gig, he's fecking terrible. Would much rather Shearer or Wright if we're choosing from the current pundits.
 
mctrials23 said:
I'm sure they do have a say in it. My point is that you can't just decide that everything is made for political reasons. The BBC are struggling at the moment. They are probably making a hell of a lot of decisions they don't want to make due to outside influence. They are heavily funded by the public so and decision that might piss off a large part of the public might not be a good idea.

The people who run the BBC might be doing all this because they are staunch Tories or perhaps its because of the fear that this would damage the BBC.

I have no horse in this race. I like Lineker and hes one of the very few good pundits. I can very much see why he has got in trouble for his tweet though. As I said before. I don't think people should be censored for their views wherever they sit on the political spectrum but he has broken their rules by the looks of it. The debate should probably be whether they are applying those rules equally and why not.
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So, follow the logic of that last sentence and see if you think the points about Tory control of the BBC might have something.
 
sugar_kane said:
I think the point of difference here is a that Lineker referenced Nazi Germany which is massively taboo at all levels of society.

If he'd made the same criticism without the reference I doubt he would be relieved of his MOTD duties, rightly or wrongly.

Anyway I seriously hope Jenas doesn't get the gig, he's fecking terrible. Would much rather Shearer or Wright if we're choosing from the current pundits.
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Braverman made a similar assertion not too long ago and was called out for it. It’s bullshit of the highest order. All of a sudden the free speech enthusiasts don’t like free speech.
 
sugar_kane said:
I think the point of difference here is a that Lineker referenced Nazi Germany which is massively taboo at all levels of society.

If he'd made the same criticism without the reference I doubt he would be relieved of his MOTD duties, rightly or wrongly.

Anyway I seriously hope Jenas doesn't get the gig, he's fecking terrible. Would much rather Shearer or Wright if we're choosing from the current pundits.
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Lord Sugar has done the same in referencing Corbyn in a photo with Hitler
 
Solius said:
They both just said that the language and rhetoric used is similar. It didn’t just start with concentration camps. It was a slow process over years which began with the dehumanisation of a group of people using language like that.
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BenitoSTARR said:
His views were about the language being used by politicians to discuss this issue. It’s the same language used back then. Dehumanising and divisive.

I say this as someone with a grandfather who experienced this first hand and who has studied the history behind it. It’s factual to compare the language.
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Sorry, gents, rewatching the initial Braverman video he tweeted about, I just dont see the comparative language to nazi germany that isnt tenuous. It's a huge leap to make in my opinion and if any language that encourages a more transparent, safer approach to migration, which includes ensuring that host countries have enough means to accomodate and treat these desperate people adequately, is aligned with language of Nazi Germany, then i just dont think its a credible argument. It could be aligned to the position of several left wing governments just as easily and superficially. I detest the tory party, and dont doubt that they lack compassion, but its still an argument rooted in sophistry
 
j65454 said:
The BBC has been an arm of the Tory government for years.
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Not quite. The BBC is the media arm of power.

In 1926 it sided with the government over workers in the general strike, and has sided with the government, whoever that may be, ever since.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
He didn't say they were exactly the same thing, did he? You don't need to explain why you think there's a difference between "tackling the small boat crisis and Nazi Germany". The point was about similarity in language and policy being used to dehumanise groups of people for political gain. There's you nuance.
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Ill refer you to previous posts. Not out of disrespect but I cant engage with several people at once.
 
duffer said:
I'd boycott MOTD myself but I don't think I've watched it for about 10 years anyway.
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Not had to bother ever since vids/gifs of the goals started being posted within seconds. :lol:
 
Big error of judgement from the BBC. They'll end up embarrassingly going back on it.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
Probably something to do with the person now in charge maybe not being politically impartial themselves.
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I would wager that everyone in every corporation has some political leaning. Plenty of them manage to keep their professional and private matters separate enough though.

The BBC still puts out hugely varied content and its most diverse programming has come during the time the Tories have been in power. Regardless of whether the creatives are left leaning or not, the high ups have a say in this so I don't think its quite such a Tory hotbed conspiring against the great and good as some are suggesting.

Who knows. Perhaps this is entirely political and we should be rightly outraged. I am going to keep my pitchfork in the shed for now though.

BenitoSTARR said:
I sincerely hope every self respecting sports pundit tells the BBC to feck themselves for the foreseeable.
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Are there really any of these. Gary Neville is a prime example of someone who has very strong opinions and morals until it gets in the way of his career/money.

Most pundits could be replaced with a damp sponge without much of a drop in quality or insight as well. Every time Robbie Savage hits my ears I want to slit my wrists. I genuinely have no idea what criteria they use when picking people.
 
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