Jeff Buckley

mosesfromtala said:
But people with complex opinion on music often don't spend hours listening to it, they might get it all from the first hearing, the way you did. It's like anything, some people look at a painting and like the image, they don't see the style, the influences, the fine detail in technique or ornamentation. Like the way people can tell a fake Monet, others can hear music in a lot of detail. But you are right, if you like it you like it, lots of people say this about visual art. Same thing.

Lot's of people don't give a shit about Phil Spector and his wall of sound, or the reactionary nature of John Wesley Harding, or the influence of Sgt peppers on Pet Sounds, or why it's even relevant. Or Dylans myriad producers and the effect they had on each other. Some people will sit and analyse things to death but to some it's more complex than just liking or not liking because it just is more complex than liking or not liking ... I have lots of records that are genius on some level but I don't necessarily 'like' them the way you like 'Grace' for example. I have lots of German prog rock from the late 60's and early 70's , some of it is unlistenable and some of it is out of this world fanatastic. Why I have these records is because they influenced artists like Bowie, Lou Reed and Iggy and I wanted to find out why they gravitated to Berlin; and it's an amazing story with amazing sounds and all done in a very German manner, completely at odds with the way musical scenes developed in places like the US and the UK, movements which had, to some degree, their origins in this Krautrock.

It's like football to you and a lot of heads on here, you watch a game and see it simply and you analyse it according to your opinions and what you know, all without thinking too much, but because of what you know it's simple to you , but not so for someone who doesn't understand the game. To use a cliche - like explaining offside to a woman.

And it is difficult to say this without sounding like a know all cnut, especially about music because almost everyone likes muisc to some degree and get offended. But music is like every cultural thing, it has many guises , from the primal , through traditional to the arty high brow wank. I love all of it. High Fidelity was a documentary for me.
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That's a great post.
 
Eyepopper said:
Bang on...

Incidentally... almost every songwriter I know (and I know a LOT) of songwriters list Jeff Buckley as a massive influence...
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maybe hes one of those names to drop when you are a songwriter though...you know oh i was influenced by - then theres a list of people - yet pump them to give any detail as to what are their fave tracks etc you get the old "well i havent listened to them in a while...cant remember" though its probably easier to bluff your way with buckley as he only made one studio album...its like Nick Drake...you cant stop hearing about him now but about 10 years ago youd have been hard pushed to find many people who had heard of him never mind heard his albums...now hes a name all the "songwriters" love to drop...."oh yeah Ive always loved Nick Drake"...my balls you have.
 
Buckley is a typically over rated in my opinion. Death is a wonderful thing for a legacy in music unfortunately but Jeffs is largely unfounded.

Anyone who has tried to listen to his second (all be it, unfinished) second album could testify that it wasn't going to be the grand follow up to Grace people would anticipate.

I went through a phase of being right into my Jeff, around the age of 16/17 i think and liked the fact he was good at guitar and a good singer but i don't think his work had so much substance. Considering i listened to it a shit load then but i havent listened to it at all in years. My dad bought me live at olymipia or something and i didn't even get it out it's foil.
 
sammymc said:
maybe hes one of those names to drop when you are a songwriter though...you know oh i was influenced by - then theres a list of people - yet pump them to give any detail as to what are their fave tracks etc you get the old "well i havent listened to them in a while...cant remember" though its probably easier to bluff your way with buckley as he only made one studio album...its like Nick Drake...you cant stop hearing about him now but about 10 years ago youd have been hard pushed to find many people who had heard of him never mind heard his albums...now hes a name all the "songwriters" love to drop...."oh yeah Ive always loved Nick Drake"...my balls you have.
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In terms of writing songs, though, it goes beyond just writing songs (i.e. lyrics and music) strange as that sounds. Jeff Buckley did have a distinctive sound, in terms of his style of singing and guitar-playing. And I think it's perfectly possible for people to be influenced by this sound, whether or not he was particularly prolific and/or consistent in terms of churning out great tunes.

Agree "Sketches" was pish but, even though there were 20 or so shite songs on there, there was a couple of good ones too, which have stuck in my head much better than a lot of Nick Drake's stuff, great an' all as he was.

Maybe it's that Buckley combined shoe-gazing folky stuff with a pop sensibility. Very easy to take the piss out of pop music but really great pop music can sometimes be song-writing at it's very best, IMO.
 
Doesn't this thread highlight the big problem with music nowadays though? You have to be a fully-formed genius when you start out, or you are considered shit. If The Beatles released their first album today it would be described as being decent but having lots of filler. Songwriters/bands aren't given the time to hone their craft, and are being written off as mediocre when they are just finding their feet. Like any job, they need time to develop their talent, but it seems in modern music, that time is considered a luxury.

Buckley, for me, was someone with obvious potential. He was nowhere near the genius some would have you believe, but he certainly was anything but mediocre, and he looked like someone who could get better and better. Who knows if he would have fulfilled his potential, but the thing is, he almost certainly would have become a better songwriter if he had the time to develop that potential.
 
brophs said:
Doesn't this thread highlight the big problem with music nowadays though? You have to be a fully-formed genius when you start out, or you are considered shit. If The Beatles released their first album today it would be described as being decent but having lots of filler. Songwriters/bands aren't given the time to hone their craft, and are being written off as mediocre when they are just finding their feet. Like any job, they need time to develop their talent, but it seems in modern music, that time is considered a luxury.

Buckley, for me, was someone with obvious potential. He was nowhere near the genius some would have you believe, but he certainly was anything but mediocre, and he looked like someone who could get better and better. Who knows if he would have fulfilled his potential, but the thing is, he almost certainly would have become a better songwriter if he had the time to develop that potential.
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A very good point.

To go back to moses' football analogy, if Anderson got hit by a bus tomorrow, you'd get loads of fans telling their grand-kids about this dread-locked superstar, who was cut off in his prime, after setting the Premier League alight with his phenomenal talent.

Then there would be bitter auld sods, like me, pointing out that he couldn't shoot for shit and we always struggled to retain possession when he was in central midfield ;)
 
A deceased Anderson = Jeff Buckley - sounds about right to me :D

Seriously though for me Buckley's legacy is more a couple of very very special performances and you're right, a particularly distinctive style and sound.

It is likely though given his 'potential' ( sounds crass but not meant to be) he could have gone all the way given another 20 years polishing his creativity

Sad loss
 
samabachan said:
Cat Power can sing yes but she never tries to sing like a normal human being, she warbles on in the strangest fashion before briefly showing some actual ability and then striking a strange pose and stopping singing again. Awful to listen to IMO.
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She's erratic live, probably due to confidence issues, but she always sounds wonderful on her records (not that I've listened much to her most recent ones). She's never been a great singer in terms of technical ability, though.
 
brophs said:
Doesn't this thread highlight the big problem with music nowadays though? You have to be a fully-formed genius when you start out, or you are considered shit. If The Beatles released their first album today it would be described as being decent but having lots of filler. Songwriters/bands aren't given the time to hone their craft, and are being written off as mediocre when they are just finding their feet. Like any job, they need time to develop their talent, but it seems in modern music, that time is considered a luxury.
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an interesting point but when you take into consideration what the influences were for the beatles and their first album and then look at how pop/rock music developed from that point with its myriad of genres etc then when it comes around to buckleys first album look at the influences hes had then the comparison is pretty redundant....buckley had revolver, pet sounds, led zep 4, his da, cocteau twins, 30 years worth of pop, rock, prog, punk, metal, goth, indie etc etc to be influenced by...the beatles had about 8 years worth of rock n roll and soul/pop before them.
 
mosesfromtala said:
Whatever about the merits of Grace, I really don't think Buckley was a good songsmith.
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Sorry, but I can't agree to that statement in the slightest.

Everytime I listen to Grace it moves me in a new way, you can pretty much hear his torment throughout the album. I can understand how his voice may irratate people, personally I think its beautiful. RIP Jeff, you live on through your music son!
 
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The two greatest talents of their generation. It's better to burn out than to fade away.
 
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