Jean-Philippe Mateta

[croadyman]

Come on guys, we're better than this.

So who outside of the unobtainable two then seeing as you are sneering at the thought of signing him. Personally I don't understand that as he bullied Villa on Saturday.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Physical beast and decent pace

Also tall, and has a ‘tache

 

[Teja]

So who outside of the unobtainable two then seeing as you are sneering at the thought of him

This would be peak Andy Carrol type signing if we go through with it, I'd rather just stick to Hojlund and Zirkzee and spend money on other positions than waste money on these types of signings. If we have the players behind the striker that can do the basics right (build up consistently without shitting themselves, create chances at a decent clip, press well) then you don't need a Gyokeres to smash them in, guys like Havertz, Jesus, Richarlison can do the trick.

Anyway, Delap is fine, at least there's some promise that you can look forward to.

 

[croadyman]

This would be peak Andy Carrol type signing if we go through with it, I'd rather just stick to Hojlund and Zirkzee and spend money on other positions than waste money on these types of signings. If we have the players behind the striker that can do the basics right (build up consistently without shitting themselves, create chances at a decent clip, press well) then you don't need a Gyokeres to smash them in, guys like Havertz, Jesus, Richarlison can do the trick.

Anyway, Delap is fine, at least there's some promise that you can look forward to.

So who are you adding to Cunha behind striker that negates the need for a number 9 then?

 

[Teja]

So who are you adding to Cunha behind striker that negates the need for a number 9 then?

It's not just Cunha right? We need a midfielder, goal keeper and potentially a wing back depending on where we stick Amad to improve the general play.

The sight of Ugarte being the deepest midfielder who is supposed to execute that GK -> #6 - > Right Center Back bounce pass terrifies me. You need someone with perfect touch / control in that position to improve our build up. e.g., in a typical goalkick situation like this

------------------- Maguire --- Ugarte -------------
------ Yoro ------------------------------------- Maz --
---------------------- Onana -----------------------------

You need the ball to go from Onana to Ugarte / Maguire (both of whom are almost double marked by a pressing team with their front 3). Ugarte / Maguire need to draw some pressure before playing the pass to the LCB / RCB to give them the opportunity to run forwards with the ball. That's never going to work with either Maguire / Ugarte so we almost always avoid that pass.

Look at the build up efficiency charts like: https://markstats.club/teams-eng-24-25/ - The "LOS" column has the number of times a team lost possession in the danger zone as a proxy for how good the build up play is. We're the 3rd worst in the league - I'm actually surprised we're not the absolute worst because shit teams like Southampton know they're shit and just kick it long. The danger is a side that has aspirations of being a good side attempting to play it out while they're still shit.

Obviously having a good striker has knock on effects on things like build up. With a guy like Mateta, we might actually have a hope of winning the header when we go long where as with Hojlund it's an automatic possession loss. But that can't be your excuse for why the build up is so shit. Having a Mateta, maybe will improve things by 10%. It won't make us 2x better.

If everything else is good (Cunha is a start) a WC striker can be the last thing we do. Other than the RvP example that everyone likes, I haven't seen a single striker signing revolutionize an otherwise dysfunctional side.

 

[Ghostrider318]

Come on guys, we're better than this.

Were terrible ATM

 

[JB7]

This would be peak Andy Carrol type signing if we go through with it, I'd rather just stick to Hojlund and Zirkzee and spend money on other positions than waste money on these types of signings. If we have the players behind the striker that can do the basics right (build up consistently without shitting themselves, create chances at a decent clip, press well) then you don't need a Gyokeres to smash them in, guys like Havertz, Jesus, Richarlison can do the trick.

Anyway, Delap is fine, at least there's some promise that you can look forward to.

That would be the same Andy Carroll who has only ever reached double figures (in all competitions - not just league btw) once in his life while playing in the top division? And we are comparing him to a striker who's scored 30 goals in 54 games for Crystal Palace since a manager came in who happens to play the exact same system our manager plays? And if "guys like Havertz, Jesus, Richarlison can do the trick" why are their clubs trying to replace them? Maybe it has something to do with none of them ever scoring as many PL goals as Mateta has this season or last?

 

[Teja]

That would be the same Andy Carroll who has only ever reached double figures (in all competitions - not just league btw) once in his life while playing in the top division? And we are comparing him to a striker who's scored 30 goals in 54 games for Crystal Palace since a manager came in who happens to play the exact same system our manager plays? And if "guys like Havertz, Jesus, Richarlison can do the trick" why are their clubs trying to replace them? Maybe it has something to do with none of them ever scoring as many PL goals as Mateta has this season or last?

Their clubs are trying to replace them after successful seasons where everything clicked into place except the striker. You can't blame the striker for being 3rd worst at build up, having a crap press, field tilt, xT, xG etc. etc. etc. Seriously, try to find something that we're actually good at first before blaming the striker. More nuanced take above but my thinking is that Mateta will make us marginally better sure, but he's not getting 30 goals in 54 games at United.

Please spend some time looking at data before just saying new forward = improvement.

https://markstats.club/teams-eng-24-25/
https://www.xgstat.com/competitions/premier-league/2024-2025/teams/manchester-united

 

[JB7]

Their clubs are trying to replace them after successful seasons where everything clicked into place except the striker. You can't blame the striker for being 3rd worst at build up, having a crap press, field tilt, xT, xG etc. etc. etc. Seriously, try to find something that we're actually good at first before blaming the striker. More nuanced take above but my thinking is that Mateta will make us marginally better sure, but he's not getting 30 goals in 54 games at United.

Please spend some time looking at data before just saying new forward = improvement.

https://markstats.club/teams-eng-24-25/
https://www.xgstat.com/competitions/premier-league/2024-2025/teams/manchester-united

I saw your other post too, it's essentially saying what everyone has been able to see for months. We need new players - no shit, our build up play needs to be better - no shit, we lose the ball in bad areas - no shit. You have an incredibly condescending attitude for someone who just compared Mateta with Andy Carroll & seems to watch stats instead of performances. Not saying there's no place for the stats because obviously it's something United haven't looked at anywhere near enough for a long time, but realistically speaking even the stats have been improving of late but the results aren't and the forward options (and specifically, his hiding when the wide players get into cut-back positions) are evidently a big part of that. The lack of a competent striker is a reason for our build up play being as poor as it is, if we had a better striker in the air with players like Amad/Cunha/Fernandes/even Garnacho etc closer to them then teams would have to cater for it, whereas as it is now they can set up to press high knowing that if we do go long they will still win the first or second ball, so there is no downside to setting up in what would usually be seen as a relatively risky press; because of that, if we have the option to go long and win the ball, there would more often than not be less pressure on us playing out. Amorim's system depends on a type of striker that we just don't have, so while I'm not saying a physical striker alone would revolutionise the team, it would make a far bigger difference than you are trying to make out, particularly alongside 3/4 other new additions which will clearly come in the summer.

 

[Teja]

I saw your other post too, it's essentially saying what everyone has been able to see for months. We need new players - no shit, our build up play needs to be better - no shit, we lose the ball in bad areas - no shit. You have an incredibly condescending attitude for someone who just compared Mateta with Andy Carroll & seems to watch stats instead of performances. Not saying there's no place for the stats because obviously it's something United haven't looked at anywhere near enough for a long time, but realistically speaking even the stats have been improving of late but the results aren't and the forward options (and specifically, his hiding when the wide players get into cut-back positions) are evidently a big part of that. The lack of a competent striker is a reason for our build up play being as poor as it is, if we had a better striker in the air with players like Amad/Cunha/Fernandes/even Garnacho etc closer to them then teams would have to cater for it, whereas as it is now they can set up to press high knowing that if we do go long they will still win the first or second ball, so there is no downside to setting up in what would usually be seen as a relatively risky press; because of that, if we have the option to go long and win the ball, there would more often than not be less pressure on us playing out. Amorim's system depends on a type of striker that we just don't have, so while I'm not saying a physical striker alone would revolutionise the team, it would make a far bigger difference than you are trying to make out, particularly alongside 3/4 other new additions which will clearly come in the summer.

The long ball to a striker is such a small element of playing out the back. City comfortably had 60+% possession numbers when they were playing Foden and De Bruyne upfront. The long ball + knock down is just one variation amongst the many number of build up patterns that teams employ. There are many tactical solutions managers use if you don't have an Erling Haaland upfront - Pool still get away with playing a Jota or Diaz upfront for example and neither is winning any aerial duels.

I'd buy your argument if we were good at ... anything. We can't be so garbage at football in general and pretend that a marginal upgrade at CF is going to solve anything at all.

I agree that data has been getting better recently, I've said that before as well. Amorim has been tweaking various things. My argument is that Mateta is a fairly limited player and I'd rather fix a bunch of shit, prove that Amorim knows what he's doing (or prove that he has a crap system) and then actually spend that money on a WC CF to top it off rather than mediocre ones that need replacing in two seasons again.

 

[Xeque_279]

Would love to get him in addition to Delap, but only if the price is right. Unfortunately Palace will take us to the cleaners, won't be less than 40-50m.

 

[DJ_21]

It's not just Cunha right? We need a midfielder, goal keeper and potentially a wing back depending on where we stick Amad to improve the general play.

The sight of Ugarte being the deepest midfielder who is supposed to execute that GK -> #6 - > Right Center Back bounce pass terrifies me. You need someone with perfect touch / control in that position to improve our build up. e.g., in a typical goalkick situation like this

------------------- Maguire --- Ugarte -------------
------ Yoro ------------------------------------- Maz --
---------------------- Onana -----------------------------

You need the ball to go from Onana to Ugarte / Maguire (both of whom are almost double marked by a pressing team with their front 3). Ugarte / Maguire need to draw some pressure before playing the pass to the LCB / RCB to give them the opportunity to run forwards with the ball. That's never going to work with either Maguire / Ugarte so we almost always avoid that pass.

Look at the build up efficiency charts like: https://markstats.club/teams-eng-24-25/ - The "LOS" column has the number of times a team lost possession in the danger zone as a proxy for how good the build up play is. We're the 3rd worst in the league - I'm actually surprised we're not the absolute worst because shit teams like Southampton know they're shit and just kick it long. The danger is a side that has aspirations of being a good side attempting to play it out while they're still shit.

Obviously having a good striker has knock on effects on things like build up. With a guy like Mateta, we might actually have a hope of winning the header when we go long where as with Hojlund it's an automatic possession loss. But that can't be your excuse for why the build up is so shit. Having a Mateta, maybe will improve things by 10%. It won't make us 2x better.

If everything else is good (Cunha is a start) a WC striker can be the last thing we do. Other than the RvP example that everyone likes, I haven't seen a single striker signing revolutionize an otherwise dysfunctional side.

To be fair though there hasn’t been a more dysfunctional side than us. All other top teams have quality throughout there squad so they can afford to splash a lot more money on just 1 position. I mean Liverpool have just won the league without a proper ST.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I think Watkins makes more sense in regards that he’s more proven, very mobile, more stable (Mateta can go missing), can play more positions, and we can then play him and ease Obi in.

Ideally you’d want a mobile striker with good positioning that links up well and is a good match to Cunha - kind of like Strand Larsen at Wolves.

 

[JB7]

The long ball to a striker is such a small element of playing out the back. City comfortably had 60+% possession numbers when they were playing Foden and De Bruyne upfront. The long ball + knock down is just one variation amongst the many number of build up patterns that teams employ. There are many tactical solutions managers use if you don't have an Erling Haaland upfront - Pool still get away with playing a Jota or Diaz upfront for example and neither is winning any aerial duels.

I'd buy your argument if we were good at ... anything. We can't be so garbage at football in general and pretend that a marginal upgrade at CF is going to solve anything at all.

I agree that data has been getting better recently, I've said that before as well. Amorim has been tweaking various things. My argument is that Mateta is a fairly limited player and I'd rather fix a bunch of shit, prove that Amorim knows what he's doing (or prove that he has a crap system) and then actually spend that money on a WC CF to top it off rather than mediocre ones that need replacing in two seasons again.

You have completely missed the point.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

We will never buy Mateta, it doesnt make sense financially, he's a good profile but too old and too expensive. Also we already have Obi which will develop into Mateta in 2-3 years.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

If we get him and Cunha, we can sing "Ah Cunha, Mateta"

 

[pascell]

A report or two today, said he's our fallback option if Delap decides to sign for someone else.

I don't buy it, Delap is £30m, Mateta would be £60+m, if that really a fallback option?

 

[Pughnichi]

Also tall, and has a ‘tache

Two legs
Ten toes

Were just describing him right?

One forehead

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

If we get him and Cunha, we can sing "Ah Cunha, Mateta"

Sharp

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Two legs
Ten toes

Were just describing him right?

One forehead

Worried this might make him a limited aerial threat

 

[Idxomer]

I don't buy it, Delap is £30m, Mateta would be £60+m, if that really a fallback option?

He'll be 28 in June, and his contract is up next season. He shouldn't cost more than £40m.

 

[pascell]

He'll be 28 in June, and his contract is up next season. He shouldn't cost more than £40m.

I didn't realise that, I think winning the FA Cup with Palace might sway things in their favour.

 

[Hammondo]

It's not just Cunha right? We need a midfielder, goal keeper and potentially a wing back depending on where we stick Amad to improve the general play.

The sight of Ugarte being the deepest midfielder who is supposed to execute that GK -> #6 - > Right Center Back bounce pass terrifies me. You need someone with perfect touch / control in that position to improve our build up. e.g., in a typical goalkick situation like this

------------------- Maguire --- Ugarte -------------
------ Yoro ------------------------------------- Maz --
---------------------- Onana -----------------------------

You need the ball to go from Onana to Ugarte / Maguire (both of whom are almost double marked by a pressing team with their front 3). Ugarte / Maguire need to draw some pressure before playing the pass to the LCB / RCB to give them the opportunity to run forwards with the ball. That's never going to work with either Maguire / Ugarte so we almost always avoid that pass.

Look at the build up efficiency charts like: https://markstats.club/teams-eng-24-25/ - The "LOS" column has the number of times a team lost possession in the danger zone as a proxy for how good the build up play is. We're the 3rd worst in the league - I'm actually surprised we're not the absolute worst because shit teams like Southampton know they're shit and just kick it long. The danger is a side that has aspirations of being a good side attempting to play it out while they're still shit.

Obviously having a good striker has knock on effects on things like build up. With a guy like Mateta, we might actually have a hope of winning the header when we go long where as with Hojlund it's an automatic possession loss. But that can't be your excuse for why the build up is so shit. Having a Mateta, maybe will improve things by 10%. It won't make us 2x better.

If everything else is good (Cunha is a start) a WC striker can be the last thing we do. Other than the RvP example that everyone likes, I haven't seen a single striker signing revolutionize an otherwise dysfunctional side.

You don't want Maguire anywhere near the team next season. His passing in his last game was very poor, he's just not good enough in any aspect.

 

[croadyman]

Maybe we go for him IF Delap is following the lead of Gyokeres and will only sign with Champions League

 

[daba]

We will never buy Mateta, it doesnt make sense financially, he's a good profile but too old and too expensive. Also we already have Obi which will develop into Mateta in 2-3 years.

Don’t quite get that argument tbh. Some Might call that good succession planning?

Not that I think we should target Mateta for that reason. For me he’s 5th or 6th down the list of targets we should be looking at, but there’s no doubting he would improve us immensely right now.

 

[croadyman]

Don’t quite get that argument tbh. Some Might call that good succession planning?

Not that I think we should target Mateta for that reason. For me he’s 5th or 6th down the list of targets we should be looking at, but there’s no doubting he would improve us immensely right now.

So who is next after Gyokeres/Osimhen then?

 

[daba]

So who is next after Gyokeres/Osimhen then?

Ekitike (probs unrealistic due to price tag)
Boniface
Burkardt
Delap

+ J. David to supplement

 

[croadyman]

Ekitike (probs unrealistic due to price tag)
Boniface
Burkardt
Delap

+ J. David to supplement

Haven't seen us linked to any of top 3, agree we should look to bring in David on a free though

 

[daba]

Haven't seen us linked to any of top 3, agree we should look to bring in David on a free though

We’ve had media links to them all but I admit only lighter links to the top 3.

Regardless of links or not, just because their name isn’t being pushed in the mainstream media everyday like Delap and Gyokeres (most of the time with zero updates with the sole mission to get clicks), doesn’t mean they aren’t on our radar.

 

[dinostar77]

Maybe we go for him IF Delap is following the lead of Gyokeres and will only sign with Champions League

Thats what i think. We dont land delap, we go for mateta. i think he has 18 months left on his contract, so that would be in our favour, but i think Palace would want Osiheim and Guokeres money for him.

 

[didz]

Mateta would be my top choice, even ahead of Osimhen and Gyokeres. To be honest I'm surprised he'd be available given what Palace were able to turn down for Guehi in the summer but I guess they have to sell someone.

He's powerful by the standards of the league of the powerful, the ball sticks to him, and he scores a ton of goals. Really good player who has a lot of what we lack.

 

[rooney2009]

Mateta would be my top choice, even ahead of Osimhen and Gyokeres. To be honest I'm surprised he'd be available given what Palace were able to turn down for Guehi in the summer but I guess they have to sell someone.

He's powerful by the standards of the league of the powerful, the ball sticks to him, and he scores a ton of goals. Really good player who has a lot of what we lack.

This

 

[philippexyz]

Mateta would be my top choice, even ahead of Osimhen and Gyokeres. To be honest I'm surprised he'd be available given what Palace were able to turn down for Guehi in the summer but I guess they have to sell someone.

He's powerful by the standards of the league of the powerful, the ball sticks to him, and he scores a ton of goals. Really good player who has a lot of what we lack.

I think he's the most realistic option, taking into account our current situation(probably not offering European football and financial constraints). Decent, PL proven striker like him would be an (significant)improvement over anything we have at striker right now.

 

[bond19821982]

Sell Hojlund and sign both Delap and Mateta

 

[sidsutton]

If we get him and Cunha, we can sing "Ah Cunha, Mateta"

This is the only reason we are also considering Jonathan Tah.

 

[Teja]

Mateta would be my top choice, even ahead of Osimhen and Gyokeres. To be honest I'm surprised he'd be available given what Palace were able to turn down for Guehi in the summer but I guess they have to sell someone.

He's powerful by the standards of the league of the powerful, the ball sticks to him, and he scores a ton of goals. Really good player who has a lot of what we lack.

That's exactly the issue right? Why would he be available for cheap? And would you splunk 50m on a Mateta when we have so many gaps right now?

Why not just take a punt on Delap if we really believe he has a high ceiling or sign a Jonathan David on a free?

 

[Mourinhonista]

Class player, get him in. 60 mil. should do the trick, we can give them hojlund too to sweaten the deal.

 

[didz]

That's exactly the issue right? Why would he be available for cheap? And would you splunk 50m on a Mateta when we have so many gaps right now?

Why not just take a punt on Delap if we really believe he has a high ceiling or sign a Jonathan David on a free?

Well on investigation it's due to his contract situation with one year left. So all good there.

As to the bolded question, easily - if anything that's a low fee in this market.

 

[Teja]

Well on investigation it's due to his contract situation with one year left. So all good there.

As to the bolded question, easily - if anything that's a low fee in this market.

Oh interesting, I missed the bit that he has only a year left. I still stick to my guns, I don't think we should be spending 40-50m on Mateta. Much rather sign a guy like Jonathan David on a free or Delap with his release clause as a punt and move on with upgrades elsewhere.

 

[didz]

Oh interesting, I missed the bit that he has only a year left. I still stick to my guns, I don't think we should be spending 40-50m on Mateta. Much rather sign a guy like Jonathan David on a free or Delap with his release clause as a punt and move on with upgrades elsewhere.

It's usually easier to improve a side by upgrading its weakest position than by upgrading its strongest position. Game by game, it is obvious which position is our weakest and therefore which is in need of the greatest investment. That's not to say I'd mind us getting Delap in. I'd just rather we got Mateta.

Every time I watch Jonathan David over the years he seems to have a stinker. I've not watched him much this season and he's apparently doing really well so maybe that's my fault.