look, I love Licha, but only having one left footed CB that isn't ancient or actually a left back is absolutely terrible squad planning. I couldn't, and hope the club couldn't, give a feck if he was upset about having to fight for his spot so we have adequate cover in the back line.
Jarrad Branthwaite
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
No it wouldn’t allowing the same team that has spent over half a billion dollars to build a mid table squad would be negligent.
If we trust these people to spend this summer what’s gonna happen? Likely we will just end up with at least 100 less million in the band and still a mid table squad
while if we don’t spend we will have a mid table squad and 100 more million to spend when we do have a proper structure with people who know what they doing in charge.
I don't think 'PL proven' is necessarily nonsense. If a player is standing out and doing well for another team in the league, you know they have the physical traits and skill set to handle it, and it's likely they'll do well straight away for a new club in the same league.
I know there's also arguments for inter PL transfers that have gone wrong and overseas players that have hit the ground running. There's a risk attached to any transfer but it's lessened if they are already cutting it in the PL in my view.
I think part of the reason Arsenal have been so successful is that they have been buying quite a lot of players that were good, if not very good in the league already.
The club still need to weigh up if the inflated price is worth the level of reduced risk where other good options are avaliable though, of course.
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More that 'PL proven' seems just as hit and miss as non PL players. With the added risk of inevitably that player being on a) a higher salary (and so you will need to pay them more) and b) commanding a higher transfer fee I don't think it's really a thing at all. More that people, like us fans, have more comfort around players we know and see regularly and feel we 'know' when in reality we really don't and don't have a great sense for how they'd do in another setup.
Re Arsenal, if I think about their key players: Saliba, Gabriel, Rice, Partey, Odegaard, Saka are probably who I would think are currently nailed on starters, maybe you can add White now although Timber will displace him I feel long term, for argument's sake given he had a big fee you can add Havertz as well. It's pretty even between PL and non PL and I'd say their truly elite players are Saliba, Rice, Odegaard and Saka. They definitely have been bargain hunting around the PL with limited success though, lots of cheaper and free deals like Jorginho, Willian etc.
To further your point, while Arsenal have signed a number of players from within the PL a bunch of them were actually second choice behind a primary target from outside the league (White/Kounde, Trossard/Mudryk, Vlahovic/Jesus, Martinez/Zinchenko, we also wanted Raya from the start over Ramsdale and while he was in England he hadn't played in the PL at that point). I don't think "PL-proven" is a big factor for Arteta/Edu.
20m added to his overall price
Exctly the reason not to sign him, left sided centre back will cost a lot, we have plenty of options for that side even if injury plagued....we have a probably moving Varane, a bang average Lindelof and a yet unproven Kambwala for the other side. Spend the money on right sided and sell Linddelof.
LCB a few top top ones moved last year, some fo rhalf the price of Braithwaite probably
I rate all of Shaw, Malacia, and Martínez, but at this point, they all have long-term injury concerns.
We need both left-sided and right-sided centre backs.
Branthwaite is probably the best option for the LCB position.
If it can be done for 60-65m, we should do it.
I don't think we can afford to be spending 60-65m on a rotation option. At that price, it means he must start from day 1. It might make sense to purchase a cheaper two-footed player or someone like Lucumi from Bologna, who is a LCB and has the same characteristics as Martinez. He would come cheaper and be ok with being a rotation option.
Braithwaite is probably a better option than Lisandro now as we can see his quality and how much he would be better suited.
I like Lisandro but I fear for him being so committed that he is going to have a lot of injuries playing in England.
I would let him perform under the pressure of playing for Manchester United before making statements like these.
Smells of Maguire a bit this. I'm not saying he's rubbish, and he's looked decent when I've watched him, but I think I might still have PTSD. Overpriced, English, looks good for a lower table side...
If you can recognise talent then you can make statements like this....feel free to bump this post in about a years time.
Same here. Potentially has the same sorts of weaknesses which no one seems to care about when he's the greener grass on the other side of the fence but are suddenly unacceptable when he's a United player.
Judging footballers by smell? I prefer the eye test.
When I watched him he has been quite fast and very agile, and not prone to concentration lapses compared to his age. A comparison with Maguire seems strange?
Like?
If you can recognise talent though you’ll note that Martinez is far more talented. One of the best CBs I’ve seen in the last few years when he’s fit. He completely elevates the entire defence and through his passing the entire team. The injuries are the only concern with him, rather than anything else.
I have the same concern, especially if the quoted price tag is true. If we’re going for Todibo as well, I’d personally go for Van Hecke at Brighton instead of Branthwaite.
He's nothing like Maguire as a player. Branthwaite is much more mobile and better on the ball. He's also used to playing in a back four rather than a back three.
I’m not saying he’s like Maguire as a player (and I don’t think other poster was.. more about fee and being wary of the next bright English talent and how he will fit in when he steps ups a level. Is what I thought they meant).
To be fair, I’ve not seen a lot of him (motd highlights and our game in full) but think he looks a decent player (not poor, not clearly destined for greatness). Thought he made a couple of mistakes in the game v us.. but all defenders do?
If the fee is 50/60 or more, think we move on. I’d be happier if we can structure deals with a smaller fee, performance amounts and a shared sell on %. Then if it works, we should be happy to pay more… if it doesn’t, fee is less but club who sold to us know they’ll get something when we sell.
Out with some old work mates tonight, ones an Everton season ticket holder. I’ll ask him
A lot of Everton fans rate him higher than Stones when he was with us. Also Carlisle have a 10% clause so there's no way it's going to be less than 50m for him. I envisage a 60-70m fee for him.
Sure.
I think he's a lot better. Maguire was always slow and cumbersome which Branthwaite isn't and Braithwaite looks better on the ball to me too.
Maguire was also knocking around in the Championship until he was a couple of years older than Branthwaite is currently. I got the feeling at the time that we targeted him largely due to that one good tournament with England in 2018.
Thanks. As I said, seen little.
Im a fan of sorting the defence out first so if Berrada and Ashworth (sure we will ask him somehow) think worth it, I’ll trust them.
What I dont want us to do is dive in because of FOMO and throw money at it.. a la Maguire. We’ve apparently got £105m now (with the extra due to Ratcliffes injection) and £105m doesn’t go as far as it used to?
Id still hope we can look at better ways to structure deals (all) and that’s where I hope Berrada helps us.
As much as I like Branthwaite and think he looks a talent. We really needed to be more savvy in the market than just dropping £60-70m on him.
Hope Everton go down, but they’re in FFP trouble anyway so the fee shouldn’t be too bad.
Him and Todibo in, extend Evans and Varane by another year each. Shift Lindelof and Maguire.
Him and Todibo in, extend Evans and Varane by another year each. Shift Lindelof and Maguire.
If we can find better value elsewhere, I'm not against it.
However, Branthwaite is one of, if not the best options for that LCB position, and he would be much more, than just a rotation option. There's always injuries, suspensions, etc. Having him and Martínez would be the perfect amount of depth. The latter can also play left back in that Zinchenko role, and he would probably be even better there, than at LCB.
Shaw/Martínez/Malacia & Martínez/Branthwaite is excellent depth, but not too much so you can keep all of them satisfied at the same time IMO.
Lindelof will never leave.
Kind off agree. Kind off disagree. If he was at a PL-club in a different situation they would not sell for a few years (like WHU with Rice).
Furthermore, City, Arsenal and Liverpool would normally be all over it. Now City have Ake and Gvardiol. LFC is probably not an option. Arsenal could be an option, but they have other issues. So I think he is a rare oppurtunity. Same with Onana. A really good PL-player at 22 that is available for us.
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Agreed. We don't know how Branthwaite will adapt playing at a bigger club. The requirements of a CB at United are bigger than what he would've experienced at Everton. Whilst he has the potential to take Martinez's place as a starter, I don't see it happening from the outset. Martinez is definitely upgradeable but I think it would take a year or two for whoever it is that comes in to take his spot.
If he was at a different club in a different situation, I still wouldn't sign him for £60/70m. I think as a club we need to start using our budget better.
If Branthwaite was available for £45/50m, I'd say take a chance. Simply playing 30 odd Premier League games doesn't mean it translates to playing for Man Utd. However if his asking price is £70m, then I'd rather look into possibly signing Bremmer £43m (supposed release fee) or Todibo £40/50m and then utilize that extra £20m to potentially go after a younger CB.
Again it depends on the price. I don't think we can afford to spend 60/70m on a player who is not going to be a day 1 starter given our needs and budgetary constraints this summer. There are other LCB's that would be cheaper, also young and have potential to also be more than a rotation option. In an ideal world, if we had the transfer budget of ETH's first window this summer, then we could pay the kind of amount Everton is likely to ask for. We've all been shouting that as a club, we need to be more transfer savvy and now we have a chance to show it, so no blowing the budget on a Joao Neves for 100m or Branthwaite for 70m. Look at the amazing deals Madrid have done recently, Camavinga for 25m, Vini and Rodrygo for under 50m. Even Tchouameni and Bellingham's fees seem like a bargain compared to what Chelsea spent on Caicedo and Enzo.
I think around 60 to 65 million would be a fair price for Branthwaite, and I want us to be hoarding the best British talent available, it's always been a good strategy, Ferguson himself was always doing it. I don't want us to overpay, but if you look around in the centre back market, who's going to be available for peanuts? We could take a gamble on that Lucumi guy, although I don't know much about him, but other than him, I think every somewhat well established CB talent will cost huge money. Diomande won't be available for under 60m. Inácio would also be expensive. Lukeba too. Yoro will be very highly coveted. I could go on.
If it was up to me, I'd go all out for Diomandé and Branthwaite. Two of the biggest talents out there right now, who could be part of the core of an incredibly young, but very talented defense. Onana, Dalot, Diomandé, Branthwaite, Martínez, Shaw, Malacia. This would be a great base we could build upon for the next 5 years at least.
Both players would also fit the profiles we need in central defense as well. Suitable for the high line, but can also manage transitions and big spaces out of possession. Diomandé is similar to Saliba, but Branthwaite is no slouch either. We need big, fast, and very athletic defenders, who are good on the ball as well. Both of them would slot into our team very well.
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Maybe. I think signing PL-proven players is underrated. You pay a bit more. But you usually get what you pay for.
Liverpool built a title winning with several signings from the PL, like Henderson, Milner, Winjaldum, Robertson, Mane and van Dijk. In the process they also made a few misses, like Oxlade, Solanke, Clyne and Benteke.
Arsenal have done a bit of the same signing the likes of White, Ramsdale/Raya, Zinchenko, Jesus, Rice, Havertz, Trossard and Jorginho.
Obviously both clubs signed a bunch of players from other leagues too. But quite a significant share of their spending have been from the PL. Often players who was not popular in here when linked too Man Utd. And often accused of paying over the top or a PL-premium.
I've heard on good authority this kid is two footed. In my book that makes him even more of a must buy....
Agree. But at the same time, quite surprised how little Varane benefit from it.
Appreciate the injuries but surely Martinez isnt going to go on this injury run, Shaw as a back up and dare I say it as a third choice as dont like to mention players been terrible for years and have a good spell, but Maguire as a squad option....it isnt too bad.
Dont get me wrong I like Braithwaite, but in terms of the sheer number of positions we need to sign, I do think it is a long way down in terms of priorities, with Varane so far not offered a new contract all we have is Lindelof and Kambwala....and one of those has been injured for a long time here.
Not sure I get your point. Varane is gone and it is likely that Maguire or Lindelof will leave. We will need two CBs. It would make sense to sign one that is comfortable as LCB or LB (ref Ake/Gvardiol at City) and one who is comfortable as RCB or worst case RB.
Yep.
I would class him in the same bracket as Maguire, Dunk, Tarkowski, Minge and Michael Keane. Bang average but overrated because of their nationality.
He has a few things going for himself that they dont. One is pace. And time, very few of them where playing in the PL at 22.