Surprised he hasn't signed a new contract yet.
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Mason Mount had been Vitesse player of the season, Eredevisie team of the season, one of the best players for a top 6 Championship side and already called up to the England senior side. Garner has had a poor spell at a top Championship side, had his loan cancelled and then a good half season at a bottom Championship side and not even made England u21s yet. Not even in the same ballpark of pedigree really.
If he remains he'll just be another Axel Tuanzebe, two years later he'll have never played any meaningful minutes and suddenly he'll be 23 with only 70 appearances to his name and not progressed at all. We need to learn from the Axel mistake and make sure we get him another good loan. He needs to play and he isn't going to do that here.
Loan seems the most logical thing to me. He's had a good half season for Forest, let's be clear on that, it would be an extraordinary step up from that to even being a squad player for us.
If he gets a low number of minutes that isn't good either, even if it's at a higher level. He needs more experience in men's football, it's one of the toughest positions to integrate a youngster because of the physicality, the tactical requirements, the nous to play in a top PL side and not only play but push us towards honours. It's not a training ground for youth, we have to win - sometimes you can get away with young forwards because they don't potentially cost you the game.
I would say he'll hopefully get another solid year of experience, he comes back around 21 with 18 months of proper midfield play under his belt, he'll get stronger in that time. That will be his real opportunity. I could be completely wrong and Ole analyses him in training and sees something else but that's what I expect. I think that is going to be the typical kind of profile for a deep midfielder unless they're truly next level, Fabregas style.
If he gets a low number of minutes that isn't good either, even if it's at a higher level. He needs more experience in men's football, it's one of the toughest positions to integrate a youngster because of the physicality, the tactical requirements, the nous to play in a top PL side and not only play but push us towards honours. It's not a training ground for youth, we have to win - sometimes you can get away with young forwards because they don't potentially cost you the game.
I would say he'll hopefully get another solid year of experience, he comes back around 21 with 18 months of proper midfield play under his belt, he'll get stronger in that time. That will be his real opportunity. I could be completely wrong and Ole analyses him in training and sees something else but that's what I expect. I think that is going to be the typical kind of profile for a deep midfielder unless they're truly next level, Fabregas style.
Yeah, those are all very valid points tbf. From what I've seen he has some great attributes, we'll just have to wait and see I guess.
The thing to bear in mind is that while his experience outside of United is very limited, plenty of good players over the years have come straight from the reserves into the first team with no experience at all. Look at Rashford and McTominay. Does it have to be the case that once you get one loan spell you're automatically consigned to doing two more before you get a shot in the senior squad here?
He could, but that doesnt mean Southgate will pick him. England have better distributers than Phillips and Rice and dont play them. Against Italy Phillips was one of the main players to struggle for composure and keeping the ball, giving away the ball a lot. He still won the ball a bunch and he improved as time went on from bad to okay overall. But the point is England kept him on the pitch.
Rice and Phillips are in there to spoil against the other team's midfield. We might find that the only time players get in ahead of them its because they are better at spoiling than they are, not better at progressing with passing.
Yes I agree with this, people obsessed with loans. I cant actually think of many successful loan spells with our players that then went on to be big players...Beckham was one, but who else has there been? Of coruse a lot of the ucrrent England side have been on loan spells, which seems to make it more prevelant than it should be to me
Much rather see him given a go as our deep buildup player / DLP. If he isnt getting games in the 2nd half of the season send him out on loan, but I have a lot more hope for him than McTominay and Fred at helping us build up and keep the ball while progressing and getting the ball into Bruno, Pogba, Sancho etc as they approach the final third
Do they? Seems to me England simply do not have any real playmakers for deeper midfield positions at all. And please for the love of god don't namecheck Henderson, the man is and has always been an awful footballer.
I would say every player is an individual case, but I think the talent level, physical development, position and also squad options are going to be the main considerations a manager looks at. I don't think it's automatic they have to be loaned out or need multiple loan spells, but it's one route that can definitely work - Mason Mount already being a good recent example that has been mentioned. Another loan for Garner would put him on a similar trajectory.
I think Rashford got a big slice of luck, sometimes you can't beat that for getting an opportunity. He took full advantage and was a special talent to begin with.
I would guess McT's physical development helped him to compete even if he wasn't massively rated as a youngster.
Loans are great, but when a player has gone out to the championship and done really well and he plays in a position where you can improve a lot with something he's good at (DM, distribution other than Pogba who is light defensively) sometimes you just have to pick a player and say you're going with him because he might develop quickly if you put him in the team to do what he's good at. He could come in and look like he's been playing central midfield for Manchester United for 5 years. And if he struggles its still okay to send him out on loan after that. But its worth giving him the chance to make his claim for the shirt
We've given worse players than Garner that chance. The likes of McTominay, Welbeck, Cleverley etc
Even Henderson is better. He gets Liverpool on the front foot with passes in behind for their front players to chase down and press. Something England's midfield were completely unable to do against Italy, never able to turn the high aged Italian defenders with runs in behind on the counter. Ward-Prowse is another one. Granted theres loads of players who should have been able to do better than Phillips Vs. Italy, his ball retention started really bad and never got good. Might not have won the ball as much as Phillips, but thats the trade off. All Phillips and Rice were able to provide going forward was Rice's dribbles up the pitch which he did really well. But other than that they were just in there to try to disrupt some Italian moves and they did a bit of that, but Italy had so much of the ball because we couldnt buildup anything that the ball just came back
He’s most likely miles off, if he makes it here at all but if he has a really good preseason then who knows?
He's two years older than Camavinga and has more experience of the English game.
If Camavinga is ready to stake a claim in United's first team, so is Garner. I don't get the insistence that Garner HAS TO go out on loan.
If Camavinga is ready to stake a claim in United's first team, so is Garner. I don't get the insistence that Garner HAS TO go out on loan.
Or Fergie's fledglings. Other than Beckham I don't recall anyone else going on loan.
Looks promising. I would keep him involved in pre-season and see if he can break into the first team, otherwise organise a loan for him in January.
I was just looking at the team of the Championship from last year and saw that Nick Powell and a teenager I have never heard of make the midfield so while I think it is the perfect stepping stone to have a loan in the League I think it is a huge step up to Premier League.
I think if a loan deal to a prem side is possible then that would be best just to get used to the intensity of the game.
2 years of top division experience as a starter is the difference
The teenager you havent heard of has signed for Palace and will be playing in the premier league next season.
Stats suggest there wasnt much between them other than Olise playing twice as many games, not being out on loan to 2 different clubs for the season
I watched him a bit at Watford and he was alright. Some good, some bad, but nothing like what we need at the top of the PL. I didn't watch him so much at Forest but there's a big step up in levels from a poor Championship team to us. I hope he has a good pre season and earns himself a few games this year. He needs PL games now at all costs.
He was a lot better for Forrest to be honest. Like night and day
I think people at the club were saying he needs to play PL football this year for his development to continue at the rate it is. So they want to assess if he's good enough to get game time at United this pre-season, if not they will loan him to a PL club, or at least that was the plan for him.
Anyone else worried about his contract situation?
No?
He was Forest's best player by far.
Go and read a Forest forum. He'll surprise some people here at just how well he's developed.
Go and read a Forest forum. He'll surprise some people here at just how well he's developed.
Oh! OKThe teenager you havent heard of has signed for Palace and will be playing in the premier league next season.
Stats suggest there wasnt much between them other than Olise playing twice as many games, not being out on loan to 2 different clubs for the season
Thanks for that, Garner was not far off then and as you say..he was disadvantaged by having to settle at two clubs
If Ole's switching to 433, then there's no room for Garner this season. I think he'll be loaned out.
He was. And Olise might still have been better even if we take that into account, but perhaps both of them have done well enough to justify being given a chance against players like Fred and McTominay who both leave something to be desired in central midfield. Bellingham wasnt in the team of the season then Dortmund signed him and he went to the Euros and got some game time for a finalist
Just seems a bit weird he’s only got a year left and there’s absolutely no talk of a new contract, it’s not like we haven’t been here before with talented youngsters. I’d obviously be surprised if it came to that given he’s a local lad, still a tad worrying though.
Impressive highlights video, he’s a very interesting player looks certain to make it in the prem, hopefully ends up a big player for us. He’s nothing like Carrick though. He carries the ball forward willingly. Is comfortable being pressed and he fizzes his long passes rather than lofting them. He also presses and tackles. Completely different. His passing is far more Scholes.
To be fair the Watford coach had a mare with Garner. He was playing him off the main striker and games were just passing him by. He’s clearly suited playing much deeper and at Forest he excelled there showing excellent vision, passing range and surprisingly breaking up play really well too
He's probably waiting to see what the future holds. If we're going to loan him and then give him a bit part role in the squad he'll leave on a free. Game time is crucial for player development at this stage.
Disagree. He'd fit in perfectly. A midfield of Bruno, Fred and Garner is the perfect combo between passing, creativity, steel, dynamism, mobility and goal threat.
You make some good points and I think he has as much if not more of a chance to adapt to the Premier League than an 18yo from another country.
It will be interesting to see which way Ole will go.
Agreed, I'd like to see this trio. I think the other poster means that a midfield trio of Pogba - Garner - Bruno wouldn't work, but honestly there are very few DMs in world football who could make that work anyway.
He has talent, but as always, my question is ‘how much?’. I appreciate that there’s a special affinity for our young, but we do always need to be careful in not substituting our standard for their standard if they don’t align. Is Garner better than Connor Gallagher, for example? A player who is likely never good enough for what Chelsea want to achieve and whom they will inevitably sell for £20m at some point. Similar comparison between Axel and Ben White, who is probably not quite our level yet has fetched £50m on the market.
I’d like to see Garner in the PL for a season and then assess. If he looks a United player, I’m all for giving him preferential treatment over another non-academy grad of a similar level, which I think is how it should be where quality is similar, bit only when similar.
I’d like to see Garner in the PL for a season and then assess. If he looks a United player, I’m all for giving him preferential treatment over another non-academy grad of a similar level, which I think is how it should be where quality is similar, bit only when similar.
I stopped trying to predict this stuff when David Jones was sold to Derby
There's little chance of him getting the games he needs at this stage of his career. McTominay and Fred are ahead of him. VDB will most likely play a bigger role next season.
I just don't see us starting with Garner regularly next season. I don't even see him getting minutes. He's not ready.
How did he get on today? The lack of posts in here suggests not great.
He needs a loan at a prem club I’d imagine. Slightly under cooked but a top talent.
Now that's a name I haven't heard of in a while. Think I saw him tip up on MUTV a while back.
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