Strange title. How can a half Nigerian half German kid be an English Wunderkind?
Does he also hold an English passport?
Does he also hold an English passport?
Jamal Musiala
- Thread starter Sean_RedDevil
- Start date
It is apples and oranges, but aren’t analogies always so?
Anyway, it was a stupid post, that’s been taken far too far, including by myself, and I should have ignored it. It’s joe tiresome and boring.
No one knows who is going to win trophies in the next 20 years. I would hope we can all agree on that.
Germany's upcoming youth isn't that exciting compared to England's which is really more relevant.
thats a fair point, Englands youth is exciting
Man I wish I lived in a country with enough talent to call a World Cup winning manager a twat
If somebody won the world cup for England I think they would be then excused by the general public for anything up to and including minor war crimes.
I love your confidence. If only the English national team got just a slice of it, they actually could win something, maybe.
Nobody knows the future, so looking at the past is the only way to see, which nations are successfull in big tournaments and which always bottle them.
England played their last and only final in 1966 when most here haven't been born yet.
The only so called success in the last 20 years (despite having a so called golden generation during this time) was the semi final in Russia 2018. And even 2018 isn't a great achievement considering the opposition, which, bar Belgium, was pretty mediocre. You won 3 games, draw one (win by penalties) and lost 3 games, twice to Belgium.
Germany on the other hand is together with Brazil the most successfull football nation of all time.
I also don't know about Musiala's English roots except having played as a youth player there. He doesn't have English ancestors (at least not that I know of) and he never played a senior match there.
Well it is. As much as I hate them, Germany is always competitive in big competitions. They have downs but they are there, much more then England to be honest...
Sure, no one knows but you have favorites, no matter what competition. A very few team have won the world cup, Germany have won 4 of them and are only behind Brazil. So it is more probable that they will win one from lets say the next 3 or 4 then England who have won one on their own home soil.
By the way I am French and kind of like England and think they have a very exciting young team even if it is not very well used with Southgate IMO.
The 2018 world cup and everything since was at least a minor war crime.
It is more likely that Germany will win something going by historical record and the fact they’re a significantly larger country than England whilst having a similar football culture and quality of infrastructure. In general Germany are the best placed nation in the world to win international tournaments, at least until some other larger population football mad nations catch up in terms of infrastructure.
At the moment any England youth player is justified to feel positive about England‘s near future prospects and Musiala is more aware than any posters on here with what’s going on at youth level behind the scenes in England and Germany.
All that said, not every player elects to play for a nation considering how likely they will be to win a major trophy based on historical performance of the nations they’re choosing between. Musiala‘s attachment to the England NT over the German NT is certainly uncommon but emblematic of the increasingly globalised world that we live in.
At the moment any England youth player is justified to feel positive about England‘s near future prospects and Musiala is more aware than any posters on here with what’s going on at youth level behind the scenes in England and Germany.
All that said, not every player elects to play for a nation considering how likely they will be to win a major trophy based on historical performance of the nations they’re choosing between. Musiala‘s attachment to the England NT over the German NT is certainly uncommon but emblematic of the increasingly globalised world that we live in.
Right now the English youth players are the ones he grew up with. Nice "homecoming" when he plays for the U21. Because of his past in the English youth system he knows a lot of the young English players but did not of the young German teams. The ratio of this young players from one generation you grew up with gets lesser in the English national team. And his teammates from Bayern he gets to know more and more with every day often play for Germany.
So - even if he decides for the U-team now - it does not mean that his decision will be the same when it is about the A-teams. And he has still time to make the final decision. That is why I brought the Olympics into it. I think (but do not know 100%) that they do not count as final decision for a country and if the nosepicker does not pick the oldies for the Euros there is a big chance they play the Olympics (3 older players allowed). Germany never has won the Olympics - would be funny if Löw failed in the Euros and Müller would lead the young ones to win the Olympics.
So - even if he decides for the U-team now - it does not mean that his decision will be the same when it is about the A-teams. And he has still time to make the final decision. That is why I brought the Olympics into it. I think (but do not know 100%) that they do not count as final decision for a country and if the nosepicker does not pick the oldies for the Euros there is a big chance they play the Olympics (3 older players allowed). Germany never has won the Olympics - would be funny if Löw failed in the Euros and Müller would lead the young ones to win the Olympics.
You are talking 5 to 10 years into the past about infrastructure. England have caught up to Germany now in this regarded, even surpased. I remember reading an article a few months ago of an high profile person in Germany even admiting this.
The FA spend shit loads of money now at grassroots, more than any other country. It's obvious England are going to see the rewards of these investments and so will the rest of the UK. Look at Scott McTominay, even better Billy Gilmour, he's got the potential to be a global star. As much as the rest of the UK have no love towards England, he's the best the best example of England developing talent for the rest of the UK and how English football spending the huge amounts that it does can benefit the whole of the UK and Ireland.
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I said the infrastructure is similar. England have edged ahead of Germany in producing young players very recently but the difference isn’t profound and could simply be due to happenstance. Germany will always have a natural advantage because their population is 83m to England’s 55m. They have a good deal more of the fundamental raw material to produce more high quality footballers more often.
I feel like Germany keeps much of their talent slightly more sheltered anyways. England hypes every 17/18 year old they see to be the next big thing wheras in Germany sometimes there's names of 21/22 year olds I rarely heard of suddenly putting in world class performance after world class performance. At this age many of the English former superstars are slacking and mostly get make the headlines for nightlife and other non-football related things.
I think Kimmich is a good example of this. Never heard of his name then suddenly popped out of nowhere at like 21 or 22 to be the successor of Philipp Lahm. Now at 25 in my opinion the best central midfielder in the world. Had little hype around him for all of his career but it's probably only made him an even better player.
Of course this is a slight generalisation, but it's a trend I've noticed over the past decades.
I think Kimmich is a good example of this. Never heard of his name then suddenly popped out of nowhere at like 21 or 22 to be the successor of Philipp Lahm. Now at 25 in my opinion the best central midfielder in the world. Had little hype around him for all of his career but it's probably only made him an even better player.
Of course this is a slight generalisation, but it's a trend I've noticed over the past decades.
I don't agree with that at all, if we are going by population China would be the best in the world with 1.4 billion people and India 2nd with 1.35 billion. Sport doesn't work like that and neither does football. New Zealand (4.8 million people) are formidable at rugby every generation.
Argentina (44 milion) have a rich football history and have produced 2 alltime greats in Messi and Maradona. Portugal (10 million) also have a great football pedigree producing alltime greats like Eusebio/Figo and C.Ronaldo.
How good a country produces sporting talent goes on infrastructure aswell as a national passion for sport, as football is the national sport of England we are always going to produce some of the best players in the world in their area of expertise every generation and England have always done that, ie players like Scholes/Beckham/Rooney/Owen/A.Cole/Rio/Terry/Gerrard/Lampard from the last generation - Gazza/Shearer/Lineker/Platt/Waddle/Robson/Ince/Wright/Barnes generation before that.
2010 (when the penny dropped with England) The change and aim for England was to try and produce 'more' of these technical players (encourging kids to pass and express themselves with the ball) as thats what countries like Spain/Germany did and were sucessful with, 10 years later these kids are now 18-21 year olds, some of these young players are Premier League winners and Champions League winners ie:- Trent Alexander-Arnold (in my opinion the most exciting young English player of the lot) and right now we are shitting these players out to the extent where it doesn't matter if England get an injury to a key player because we have someone else just as good to replace them, if Foden gets injured there's Bellingham who can come in and do just a good of a job, if Rashford gets injured there's Sterling, if Sterling gets injured there's Grealish, if Sancho gets injured there's Greenwood. That was the problem England had previous generations, always had that quality, we just never had that pool of depth hence Uri Geller on the front of the papers telling you to touch a picture of Beckham's and Rooney's broken foot. Rooney getting injured left us with Heskey and Crouch.
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This thread was a mistake 
The correlation for success at international football has been found to be between GDP (infrastructure to nuture talent), population size (fundamental raw material) and years playing international football (established football culture). Obviously there are outliers and it isn't the whole story but all other things being equal then Germany will always have a natural advantage over England and other European football nations because of their population size.
Since 2018, England have been better than Germany and I'd fancy beating them in the knockout stages if we faced them in the Euro's next year.
Rather than sheltered, I think youngsters simply develop better in the Bundesliga as they are given alot of opportunities in the important stage between ages 19-23 to play. That is where English youngsters fall through the cracks of an ultra competitive and success driven league. The teams in the BL don't have pressure that comes with money being invested in the team, and therefore also don't have the money to buy foreign players, so they are more patient with giving opportunities to youngsters.
England has had arguably the most talented players in the 16-19 age group for many years, the issue is when it comes time to develop by playing senior football, they simply don't get the opportunity. Germany on the other hand don't have the same amount of raw talent but their abilities are developed later as they play senior level football more.
If there is a talented youngster in Germany, they certainly hype him. Gotze was known commonly when he was 17, Brandt was hyped when he transfered to Leverkusen at 17 (Bayern tried to sign him as well). This season you have Florian Wirtz at Leverkusen and Moukoko at Dortmund hyped up alot. The reason Germany is generally quiet regarding youngsters these days is because we don't have many talented ones
The example of Kimmich is apt, he's from the same age group as Ruben Loftus Cheek, who I'm sure was better than Kimmich at youth level. But while Kimmich was constantly getting minutes at Bayern at age 20, Ruben was jumping from club to club trying to get any minutes but just not developing in the end. Foden is currently failing under the same trap at City.
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Germany as a whole have only won the World Cup once (same as England). Germany's other 3 wins come from West Germany (same population as England).
And when you look at previous World Cup winners, other than Brazil and Germany's 1 win, all previous World Cup winners have a similar population (or lower) than England.
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Your point on the population of West Germany against England is incorrect. West Germany's population in 1950 was 51 million whilst England's was 38.6 million. In 1989 the countries respective populations were 62 million and 47.5 million. Then you are falling into the trap of not considering the other variables that make up the correlation and that there are outliers. England are a high population first world football nation though and one of the nations to have won the World Cup. I'm not saying that England can't win the World Cup or shouldn't have done better historically. Only that Germany are the best placed nation in the world for success in international football currently.
Take it up with Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski as the correlation is from their book Soccernomics.
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Yeah i'll do that, must be right if Si and Ste says it is
although in all honesty it's a load of shite.Yeah i'll do that, must be right if Si and Ste says it is
Seems pretty obvious to me. The more people a country has, the more likely it is to get a higher level of top athletes on average, providing that there are enough young people participating a given sport (culture) and the sporting infrastructure to nurture that talent is there (high GDP making this more likely).
I've already gave examples how this is wrong. Do you want me to give more?
Bashing away on my keyboard without really giving too much thought into it, i can tell you right now without knowing any players who will be playing in 10 years New Zealand (4.9 million people) will be one of the best countries in the world at rugby, someone from Iceland (356,000 people) will be challenging for the World's Strongest Man and Jamaicans (3 million people) will be amongst the fastest sprinters in the world.
Also want to add, Germany have a ageing population, one of the highest ageing populations in the world. Them having 5/10/15 or 20 million more people than another country doesn't mean too much in a sporting sense when a high number of this population are too old to compete in professional sport.
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Between 2000 and 2010 when England was said to have an overwhelming better set of players and Germany was dire even considered the worst in talents
England 0 major win, 0 major final 0 major semi
Germany 0 major win, 2 major final 2 major semi
England 0 major win, 0 major final 0 major semi
Germany 0 major win, 2 major final 2 major semi
Rugby Union is a niche sport in most of the world. What do you think participation levels are like in the UK? It’s barely even played in the north of England. A significant portion of England players are privately educated, only 7% of children in the UK are privately educated. The Rugby Union talent pool is very limited in England and akin to that of a small nation. If Rugby Union was as popular in England as it is in Wales or New Zealand then it’s highly likely that England would be the dominant side as the largest Rugby nation with the sporting infrastructure to nurture that talent. The reverse would be if football was the top sport in America. If it was then the US would be among the very best football nations as they have all the tools through population size and sporting infrastructure required to achieve that.
That said, correlation is not causation. There are outliers that buck the trend.
His movement and technique reminds me of young De Bruyne. Crazy good talent. Whats amazing is, that his dribblings are so clean and fast. Too good to not become a starter at a big club one day. Just 17 and according to Flick he is highly respected within the team already.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-Musiala-prospect-set-join-Germany-squad.html
Hopefully this is true. ^^
Hopefully this is true. ^^
Great news for Germany, if true.
Tapped up by Germany and probably didn't give him any other option.
I imagine they threatened to poison his schnitzel if he didn't play for Germany.
I blame Southgate for not flying him first class to eat bangers and mash at the Savoy.
I imagine they threatened to poison his schnitzel if he didn't play for Germany.
I blame Southgate for not flying him first class to eat bangers and mash at the Savoy.
Germany have put a lot of work into getting him to switch including offering him a senior call up. England can’t justify having him in the squad so can only offer him u21s for now. It will be a shame to lose him but we’re stacked in his position, which will be another factor in him potentially switching.
In the meantime, how's he doing as a player? I don't that's not actually being discussed in here, but I hope @Sean_RedDevil will be OK with a little distraction in his thread.
He has not featured all that much for us. Not a regular starter and often subbed for less than a full half. He's shown glimpses of greatness a few times nevertheless. Might still get fewer minutes than people would like to see for some time, but definitely looks like he can become a key player in a few years.
Wish Flick would pick him to play in attacking midfield ahead of Choupo-Moting while Müller is out. Choupo-Moting was tragic on the weekend and really has no business starting for us.
More talk of Musiala having decided to play for Germany.
Translated from this source:
Translated from this source:
Just the same info that was in the Daily Mail. He'll have to announce soon I would have thought as the paper work can take a while and the games are soon.
I agree with Bayern, it's been poorly handled by Germany with all the pressure that's been on him.
On the England Big Soccer site they're clinging on to his social media activity as he's liked a post last describing him as the youngest English scorer in the CL ever.
They reckon most of the stuff he likes is England related whilst the German players and NT accounts have been spamming his social media accounts for months to woo him.
We'll know before long. I'm cautiously optimistic at the moment
We'll know before long. I'm cautiously optimistic at the moment
Ha, the wink is always a bit cryptic! What do you know?
I think the info on his decision all comes from the Secret Scout who said that he's 99.9% to elect for Germany. People rate this guy as very reliable. He also claims that Musah won't be going the US again and will be England going forward so he's put his balls on the line a bit.