Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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wolvored said:
I only watched highlights of Sancho and with highlights it shows you the good bits. Like a lot on here I wanted us to go for it and sign him. I decided to watch the England games and see the full version of what he was about. Underwhelmed is the best I can say.
Then I think of other players Miki and Kagawa who looked the bollocks in Germany, but couldnt cut it for us. Dembele and Draxler, 2 other players I rated havent faired well either leaving Germany.
Has Pogba really lived up to his large transfer fee? £108 million is a lot of money to spunk on a player. Would we do better spreading the money around on a cheaper RW and a better CD than Lindelof?
Is Sancho going to be a game changer, which we thought Pogba was going to be? Bruno came in at a lot cheaper buy and has proved he is. Isnt there a Bruno priced RW or LF attacker out there with the same game changing qualities?
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Watching a player for club and then for country are two different things.

For country:
  • You play with a team who are from different clubs and might not be at the same level you are
  • You play generally with (no disrespect) a manager who isn't as good (top managers manage club teams, not national level teams) because top managers want to work week in week out.
  • You are playing different tactics, and in a different formation
  • You may not have chemistry with the players around you, e.g. you may not have an understanding with your midfield partner.
For example, if I were Paul Scholes at international level, I might feel my midfield pairing is getting forward too much so I may need to drop deeper and clean up their mess meaning I can't show aspects of my game.

You can't compare international level with the national team.

England have always been a poor team, and Southgate won't change that, he's an average manager, what happened in the WC was pure luck in terms of the draw, and even then the messed it up.

It didn't mean that he was a 'ray of hope' from getting a lucky draw and still losing to Croatia.

You can't judge Sancho on how he plays for England.

The only three players I've seen really play well for England in the last 15 years have been Beckham, Gerrard and Rooney.
 
wolvored said:
I only watched highlights of Sancho and with highlights it shows you the good bits. Like a lot on here I wanted us to go for it and sign him. I decided to watch the England games and see the full version of what he was about. Underwhelmed is the best I can say.
Then I think of other players Miki and Kagawa who looked the bollocks in Germany, but couldnt cut it for us. Dembele and Draxler, 2 other players I rated havent faired well either leaving Germany.
Has Pogba really lived up to his large transfer fee? £108 million is a lot of money to spunk on a player. Would we do better spreading the money around on a cheaper RW and a better CD than Lindelof?
Is Sancho going to be a game changer, which we thought Pogba was going to be? Bruno came in at a lot cheaper buy and has proved he is. Isnt there a Bruno priced RW or LF attacker out there with the same game changing qualities?
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Fans need to be a bit more patient than this. He's 20 years old, you'd think the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo were bossing every game at that age. He's new to the England team and I hope that if he comes to us people realise that he needs some to adjust to his new team here too. 108 million is definitely a lot of money but he's up there with the best 2 or 3 young talents on the planet. If you have faith in his abilities, you go for it, just like one would on the likes of Rooney, Fabregas etc

As for spending the money on cheaper talents, it's nice when it works out but a chore when you fill your squad up with average players who sounded exciting because they played for another team. I'd rather get this one incredibly talented footballer even if he has a bit to go to hit his potential, than 3 other decent players, considering the requirement on the right wing.
 
romufc said:
I understand the England game was not the one for him. Did Kane look like a £120m striker? No. Did Trent look like the best RB? No. These are pre season games, I know they are competitive matches but alot of these players have hardly had a pre season.

The comparison with Miki and Kagawa is not really the same because Sancho is still only 20, his output over the last 2 years and other England games has been brilliant.

How do you rate if someone has lived up to his fee? Is Pogba United's best player? Possibly, 4 years on so you would say his fee is justified.

Any Cheap RW will cost £50m and a very good CB will cost £60m again will not be certain that they will improve the team.
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Good point. The Team performance matters as well. If we play that terrible we'll definitely see the likes Martial and Sancho struggle. Players dont play in a vaccum by themselves. There are no guarantees of any signing being a success but the comparisons with Mkhitarian and Kagawa are baseless. Absolutely worlds between the pair of them and Sancho.
 
He's a fantastic player. England playing poorly really doesn't change that.

He's not coming here this summer though, which is surely clear to everyone now. I expect that post-window inquests will reveal that a deal was never even remotely close to happening - the press have taken everyone for a ride on this one.
 
wolvored said:
I only watched highlights of Sancho and with highlights it shows you the good bits. Like a lot on here I wanted us to go for it and sign him. I decided to watch the England games and see the full version of what he was about. Underwhelmed is the best I can say.
Then I think of other players Miki and Kagawa who looked the bollocks in Germany, but couldnt cut it for us. Dembele and Draxler, 2 other players I rated havent faired well either leaving Germany.
Has Pogba really lived up to his large transfer fee? £108 million is a lot of money to spunk on a player. Would we do better spreading the money around on a cheaper RW and a better CD than Lindelof?
Is Sancho going to be a game changer, which we thought Pogba was going to be? Bruno came in at a lot cheaper buy and has proved he is. Isnt there a Bruno priced RW or LF attacker out there with the same game changing qualities?
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What other England stars stood out for you can I ask?

Was it purely Sancho playing badly? if it was then I might agree
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Good point. The Team performance matters as well. If we play that terrible we'll definitely see the likes Martial and Sancho struggle. Players dont play in a vaccum by themselves. There are no guarantees of any signing being a success but the comparisons with Mkhitarian and Kagawa are baseless. Absolutely worlds between the pair of them and Sancho.
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You can just players individually, sometimes players shine when teams are playing badly but these international breaks came at the wrong time in terms of preparation.

We also have to see when Kagawa was signed he looked ok, then was looking like settling and Moyes replaced him with Mata.

Mikhi was bought by Jose but never played in his position.

People who give those two examples would have given Martial as an example too... but when you have a manager that believes in the player, it could change how a player performs.
 
Infra-red said:
He's a fantastic player. England playing poorly really doesn't change that.

He's not coming here this summer though, which is surely clear to everyone now. I expect that post-window inquests will reveal that a deal was never even remotely close to happening - the press have taken everyone for a ride on this one.
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United would be quick to shut down the press and say they aren't interested in him if that was the case, it's been on the BBC and SkySports who generally only publish things if they are briefed.
 
Can someone please fix the thread title, it's killing me to see "Alot" there. Even NEIN was better than this.
 
Siorac said:
Can someone please fix the thread title, it's killing me to see "Alot" there. Even NEIN was better than this.
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You mean because "Alot" isn't an actual word and it being a common mistake in English, when it's actually "A lot"?
 
Adam-Utd said:
What other England stars stood out for you can I ask?

Was it purely Sancho playing badly? if it was then I might agree
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They were all bad I agree. I stopped expecting anything from England winning a trophy many years ago, but I was hoping to see something in Sancho over the 2 games, thats all.
 
wolvored said:
They were all bad I agree. I stopped expecting anything from England winning a trophy many years ago, but I was hoping to see something in Sancho over the 2 games, thats all.
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Well he did setup a clear goal scoring chance that Rice completely miss hit in the first half of the iceland game.

I agree it's not the best I've seen of Sancho but honestly the team was setup very poorly, neither Sterling or Kane did anything either.

Individuals can only do so much against 2 defensive teams. Only Messi can run through 3/4 players and still keep the ball.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Well he did setup a clear goal scoring chance that Rice completely miss hit in the first half of the iceland game.

I agree it's not the best I've seen of Sancho but honestly the team was setup very poorly, neither Sterling or Kane did anything either.

Individuals can only do so much against 2 defensive teams. Only Messi can run through 3/4 players and still keep the ball.
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It also has to be said that having 2 holding midfielders, none of whom did anything positive the entire game, helped the attack in any way. Southgate introducing Grealish when the game had died a slow death was ridiculous
 
TheNewEra said:
United would be quick to shut down the press and say they aren't interested in him if that was the case, it's been on the BBC and SkySports who generally only publish things if they are briefed.
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It will be a cold day in hell when United decide they don't want to be splashed all over the back pages.
 
Infra-red said:
It will be a cold day in hell when United decide they don't want to be splashed all over the back pages.
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That's why other sources exist, the BBC doesn't need to generate money through paper sales like tabloids do.

The BBC, The Guardian have a reputation to be a reliable source within news in general and they are serious in their publishing.

Sources like the Times, The Mirror, The Sun, ESPN and so on are less so, they rely on ad-revenue, they need to sell papers.
 
What’s funny is Utd spent years playing really poor football and I used to read weekly, the same stuff that is being said about Sancho above. Everyone said “Martial Is garbage etc” the sensible posters then said you can’t fully judge individuals in a poor team. Jump forward 18 months and those rational people were proven correct. Martial (and others) improved massively once the team started to play better collectively under Ole.

My overarching point is, I just can’t believe that after all of that experience we still have posters coming in here and judging individual players based on one off displays in disjointed teams. Was Sancho disappointing for England? Yes, but as others have said, everyone was!

If Sancho joined Utd then we would be talking about an entirely different scenario. We have a system, we have a team and he would have the perfect platform to perform. You have to get out of your mind that individuals will always show up, because that is so rarely the case even for the elite. Sancho would prove a bargain at £100 million I’m absolutely certain of it.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
What’s funny is Utd spent years playing really poor football and I used to read weekly, the same stuff that is being said about Sancho above. Everyone said “Martial Is garbage etc” the sensible posters then said you can’t fully judge individuals in a poor team. Jump forward 18 months and those rational people were proven correct. Martial (and others) improved massively once the team started to play better collectively under Ole.

My overarching point is, I just can’t believe that after all of that experience we still have posters coming in here and judging individual players based on one off displays in disjointed teams. Was Sancho disappointing for England? Yes, but as others have said, everyone was!

If Sancho joined Utd then we would be talking about an entirely different scenario. We have a system, we have a team and he would have the perfect platform to perform. You have to get out of your mind that individuals will always show up, because that is so rarely the case even for the elite. Sancho would prove a bargain at £100 million I’m absolutely certain of it.
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Writing off players before they've hit 21. It's the Caf way
 
It's not just the stock exchange guff that caused the update, it was also revealed that he's due a £1.5m bonus from Dortmund once a year passes since he signed his extension last summer, and after a set number of England appearances (which he surpassed with last night's game).
 
Judas said:
How was Sancho meant to be perform at his best when his mind is already in Manchester.
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And we are all inside him :devil:

I must say it’s a lovely thing to see this thread shoot up by about 4-5 pages overnight. As they say “you love to see it”

Now what we’d really love to see is some more encouraging developments over the next few days.

Feeling positive again muppets. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel upon the Sancho train.

Have a great day all.
 
I quite miss the NEIN now, after wanting it gone for so long...

"A lot of smoke, but NEIN fire as yet.."
 
I dont wanna base anything on England games cuz lets be real, England always sucks somehow, sorry guys but its true however I have said from the start I wouldnt be too disappointed if we dont get Sancho as it will mean more playing time for Greenwood and if I were to be honest in my heart of hearts that what I want.
Could be that Im just biased and a homer towards Greenwood but I want him to be a starter, play as much as possible and would much prefer getting a good backup for him like David Brooks. Greenwood scored more non pentaly goals than Rashford last year. Playing from the right isnt a a problem cuz he can play that inside forward role, he isnt out of place and I personally think Greenwood, not Sancho is that generational talent.

Now yes I know I will get absolutely decimated for this comment. Fire away.
Alternatively give me a like so Im not a newbie anymore haha. Going against the grain counts for something eh? :D
 
HowYouDoin said:
I dont wanna base anything on England games cuz lets be real, England always sucks somehow, sorry guys but its true however I have said from the start I wouldnt be too disappointed if we dont get Sancho as it will mean more playing time for Greenwood and if I were to be honest in my heart of hearts that what I want.
Could be that Im just biased and a homer towards Greenwood but I want him to be a starter, play as much as possible and would much prefer getting a good backup for him like David Brooks. Greenwood scored more non pentaly goals than Rashford last year. Playing from the right isnt a a problem cuz he can play that inside forward role, he isnt out of place and I personally think Greenwood, not Sancho is that generational talent.

Now yes I know I will get absolutely decimated for this comment. Fire away.
Alternatively give me a like so Im not a newbie anymore haha. Going against the grain counts for something eh? :D
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We are not getting Sancho to displaced Greenwood. A lot of people are getting this wrong perception. We are improving our squad depth with quality signings, not just some Brooks. If we sign Brooks, we are going to fight for top 4 again. If we get Sancho, we are aiming for the top, that is the difference.
 
Salt Bailly said:
It's not just the stock exchange guff that caused the update, it was also revealed that he's due a £1.5m bonus from Dortmund once a year passes since he signed his extension last summer, and after a set number of England appearances (which he surpassed with last night's game).
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Was it revealed or was it just claimed? I thought the source was just one bellend who previously made the laughable suggestion that Sancho’s agent wanted £50m.

Also can someone please explain the England caps thing to me? Was it claimed he needed to get to 10 caps? He seems to have made 13 up until now. It also seems odd as this only represents 4 more games in the last year. Bit of a weird thing to add into a contract last year when he was already an established player who was emerging as a star for the National team too.
 
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I've managed to stay away from this thread for a while. But with the new thread title, I'm back in. What's happened? Who's smoking?
 
Skåre Willoch said:
I've managed to stay away from this thread for a while. But with the new thread title, I'm back in. What's happened? Who's smoking?
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Thread went into self immolation over stock prices, and some 1.5m bonus for Sancho, I think.
 
Withnail said:
Writing off players before they've hit 21. It's the Caf way
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This place cracks me up, but it's a societal problem in general. People love to box things off as "good" or "bad" and once categorised their opinion is formed and set in stone. There's a general lack of understanding of process and development.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
A stock market bump caused the title change, so disappointing.

Secondly for £108 million we should be getting someone who can change matches on his own which he so far seems unable to. May be this is the reason for our hesitation.
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Both Sterling and Kane are worth more than Sancho yet neither of them did a thing either.
 
crossy1686 said:
Did anyone see that Mike Phelan signed up to Instagram yesterday? Guess who one of his first follows was? Sancho...
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Did he?

All I can see is an unverified account with nobody verified following him back and he’s not following Sancho.

Does nobody else check these things out?
 
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