Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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MackRobinson said:
I think the main point is you use Youtube clips and stats to make pretty strong claims about players while ignoring/downplaying the opinion of others who actually watch these guys play night in and out.
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I have factored in the opinions of those who have seen a particular player play in his role like I have done with Van de Beek. The Ajax fans on here couldn't even recollect Van de Beek's no 6/no 8 performance because they have been accustomed to the setup that got them their best runs. That was why I had to seek the opinion of a larger sample on their forum, especially at the time Van de Beek was deployed as a central midfielder. One of them said that he's always been fantastic as a no 6 and never had a bad game there. That's enough for me, not those saying "he's a no 10", "he's a Klassen" etc. I have seen him with my eyes to know he's not and the coach said he's not a no 10.

If Van de Beek had been playing as a central midfielder recently and some Ajax fans said he's not good enough, I would dial back on him but that's not the case here. Come to think of it, he's been good as a no 10 but as a midfielder, he's done better than what he's shown so far.

On Felix, most of those against him were Benfica rivals, not Benfica fans and it was even funny how they used the Switzerland match to back up their opinion of him not being good enough. I mean he barely had a touch except for chasing long ball all through the game yet some had thought he should have had a great performance. Those that even had plenty of touches on the ball didn't have a good game but a skinny young lad chasing long ball all through the game should?

I saw him play as a false 9 striker against Frankfurt and he was quite good in the role. He didn't even get to play as one against Switzerland. I know he's not yet the finished article and isn't worth 100mil which I have always opined but for a cut price, I feel he won't be bad.

That said, what I hate was his lies and other nonsense about what I didn't say.
 
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sunama said:
I agree with this, but a lot of fans are unable to see this.
There are players who prefer to stay at lesser clubs, rather than come to MUFC. My belief is that this is because we don't have a big name manager (remember the Summer transfer window we had when Moyes joined us). Added to this, we saw relegation form from us, for 2-3 months until the season ended and we never actually recovered our form.

I think if Woodward was fired from footballing duties, that for me, would be a VERY successful transfer window. If Woodie stays in place, even if we bought Messi, Suarez and Neymar, we'd still struggle on the pitch, due to Woodie siding with the player, rather than the manager.
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Quite true.
I really do believe that if Ole had started to move a number of players out of the club that that would have shown intent to get things sorted.
And the longer that takes to happen the longer it will be seen by others that our long list of problems are not being tackled properly.
 
Infra-red said:
David Ornstein (BBC):

I'm told he was the Red Devils' top attacking target and that they were his preferred option if he was to return to the UK from Borussia Dortmund this summer. A couple of months ago, he was open to the transfer and those involved felt it was nailed on.

But United's terrible end to the season has changed everything. Sancho is reluctant to give up Champions League football and if he is to move he wants to play for a club where stability, progression, development and a chance of winning trophies is guaranteed.

The 19-year-old England forward now harbours severe doubts that United can offer any of those assurances. I'm told 'never say never', but as things stand it is looking highly unlikely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/48278922

Manchester United’s £100million move for England starlet Jadon Sancho in tatters after failure to qualify for Champions League

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...tatters-failure-qualify-Champions-League.html

Manchester United transfer news: Jadon Sancho hopes over as Champions League failure sees summer move collapse

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...hampions-league-failure-psg-a8916551.html?amp


There's no way he's agreeing to come here while we are in this state. We've now "ruled out" any move:

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/soc...td-rule-out-move-for-bvbs-sancho?platform=amp
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If this is true then i hope we stay away from him. A 19 yo with one good season under his belt wanting guaranteed this and guaranteed that is a very bad sign regarding his attitude. It's all just media bollocks anyway though.
 
Kaglish10 said:
Another insecure rants and dick measuring nonsense..

I brought up many Ajax fans' posts to back up the fact that Van de Beek was a fantastic no 6 unlike our resident Ajax fans on here who were hunged up on Frenkie's style and thought Van de Beek was a no 10. One even claimed Van de Beek has been playing as a no 10 for two years now until I pulled out facts to show otherwise hence it's nonsensical to believe shit from fans because many have their biases. If we have that on here, why won't other fans do?
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you're referring to me here when my original comment on vd beek, that you've literally copied half your entire fecking argument from says the exact opposite of what you're asserting about me:


Ajaxsuarez said:
He hasn't (been allowed to) develop(ed) into the player I've always seen in him. He's a hard worker with a really good functional technique and good passing range, who could have been a fantastic box-to-box midfielder or just proper central midfielder, which is also how he first properly found his way into the team taking Schöne's place in a number of games under Bosz.

Unfortunately the summer after that season Klaassen left, and with that being the spot available and Donny being a hardworking blonde Dutch midfielder, he increasingly got shoehorned more and more into the exact Klaassen, a far more football-technically limited player, role.

He's been played as a sort of second striker, Müller type 10 all season and I think he definitely has a lot of tactical value in that role in how his movement pulls defenders (see his runs for the RM away goals) and midfielders (see how he completely exploited Martinez in Bayern away) out of position, but it's really limited his influence on the ball and his development as a more complete player.

So no, he's definitely not a Matic replacement, in his current version anyway.

To actually touch on his abilities and limitations:

Positives: great in short combinations, inventive in how he creates chances both on and off the ball, functionally good with his weak foot, can finish (though seemingly not too good in proper striker type 1 on 1 chances), can press very well, has an aggression in him though imo he's not actually made steps in that aspect since becoming a first team player, surprisingly skillful at times in small space though othertimes seems a bit clunky.

Negatives: His "action" radius has just become way too small. It's partly the role and position he's played in, as a 10 with two midfielders behind him he tends to either receives the ball in very busy areas, often not with the play ahead of him, or out wide when he's drifted there. As a result, he really mainly operates in max 5-10 radius around him in his passing, running with the ball, but also in his defensive pressing, he sort of leads the press in the midfield and so it's very short distances he is actually involved at any time. Hard to explain what I mean by this, but take De Jong, he tracks opposition over 20-40 metres, dribbles and passing over a similar distance. Donny's qualities should have been more in that sort of direction, as a Gerrard type player, but instead he's a player that I think few teams would use beyond tactical motivations.

I think I've just written some entirely unhelpful, uninteresting to anyone not an Ajax supporter, nonsense here, but basically he's not United quality and unless he makes big steps in a new role is unlikely to ever come particularly close. I really really really like him and want him to do well but unfortunately he's looking more limited than I had hoped he would turn out.

I actually really hope that Ten Hag decides to switch back to a system with a 6 instead of a 10 next season or if not moves van de Beek back to take De Jong's vacancy in the "double pivot"(or whatever you wanna call it) and then let's see how he develops
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I was one of the first people on those exact Ajax forums you're quoting to advocate heavily for Schöne to be dropped for vd Beek, before he impressed a couple times as his replacement in the EL. I've been watching him since he was like 15 in fact. But even when he took Schöne's place, that wasn't because he was naturally a no.6 (neither is schöne btw), he's been more of an 8 his entire career upto the first team

you're right in our whole discussion I did slip up and refer to vd beek as having been played as a 10 for two seasons, because he got played in the Klaassen role, which, even when he was played as a half, was basically a "drift around the striker and go missing a lot of the time" role. The fact is that vd Beek was tasked with replacing Klaassen in a like for like fashion despite being a far more complete player. Your whole argument is based around quoting Dutch posters vouching for vd beek to play over Lasse Schöne of all people, at a time that people were at their most frustrated with him nonetheless. being rated over schöne isn't some massive accomplishment

also in your whole talk of biases and whatnot you miss the most important thing, the fact that Donny is literally the most beloved of all Ajax players at the moment and due to his ties to the club, character, and situation regarding his best friend Nouri, is the fan favourite that in fact will always have an edge over any other player in the fans' eyes, including myself.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
City, Liverpool and Tottenham will get top 3, then it is between 3-6 clubs to get the last spot: MUFC, Arsenal, Chelsea, Wolves, Leicester and potentially Everton.
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One of the most mental posts on here for a good while.
It’s much more likely that Spurs drop out of the top 4 than Wolves or Leicester get it.
Dismissing Chelsea who have just finished above Spurs is pretty hilarious too.
 
If i were him, i would stay at least another season at dortmund. Sancho had some really nice games, but he ist not yet constant enough nor could he put his mark in a lot of big games.

Another year under Favre in the Bundesliga should benefit his development most.

Even wordclass players like Lahm (Stuttgart), Alaba (Hoffenheim) and Kroos (Leverkusen) took intermediate steps before reaching the highest level. I would like to tell more youngsters not to be impatient.
 
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Why is Van De Beek and Joao Felix getting discussed in the Sancho thread? :wenger:
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
One of the most mental posts on here for a good while.
It’s much more likely that Spurs drop out of the top 4 than Wolves or Leicester get it.
Dismissing Chelsea who have just finished above Spurs is pretty hilarious too.
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Not saying that they are favourites to get top 4, but the likes of Leicester and Wolves could make it IF they make some smart decisions this summer and Chelsea, Arsenal and MUFC struggles.
Chelsea without Hazard is a big IF and with the transfer ban (if it is not repelled) they will not be able to replace him, Arsenal will struggle to buy players given their wage and £££ issues.
We are also a big question mark, but at least we have the £££ available and could potentially strengthen our side massively IF we manage to be successful this summer. Tottenham will spend and improve the debt of the squad, especially at midfield. Unlikely that they drop out of top 4.

If we make some decent acquisitions this summer, we should definitively be favourites for a top 4, but we will know this better when we are in August.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Not saying that they are favourites to get top 4, but the likes of Leicester and Wolves could make it IF they make some smart decisions this summer and Chelsea, Arsenal and MUFC struggles.
Chelsea without Hazard is a big IF and with the transfer ban (if it is not repelled) they will not be able to replace him, Arsenal will struggle to buy players given their wage and £££ issues.
We are also a big question mark, but at least we have the £££ available and could potentially strengthen our side massively IF we manage to be successful this summer. Tottenham will spend and improve the debt of the squad, especially at midfield. Unlikely that they drop out of top 4.

If we make some decent acquisitions this summer, we should definitively be favourites for a top 4, but we will know this better when we are in August.
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So many “ifs” from a poster that just one post earlier had so matter of fact stated that next season’s top three was already a forgone conclusion.

It’s also pretty hilarious that it’s “ifs” for Chelsea, “ifs” for United and the rest, yet Spurs “will spend and improve” :lol:

You have no idea what Spurs will spend and if they’ll keep Toby, Tripier or Eriksen.

And... back to Sancho. I’d love United to go big on him this year and make a real statement about Youth, Courage, Success. As we know, anyone is available for the right price and if we can shift Lukaku and another couple of players our budget “should” be huge, whether or not it will be... time will tell.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
So many “ifs” from a poster that just one post earlier had so matter of fact stated that next season’s top three was already a forgone conclusion.

Funny still that it’s “ifs” for Chelsea, “ifs” for United and the rest yet Spurs “will spend an improve” :lol:

You have no idea what Spurs will spend and if they’ll keep Toby, Tripier or Eriksen.
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Well, the "ifs" are not related to top 3. MUFC, Arsenal and Chelsea are big ifs.

Tottenham will certainly spend more than Arsenal. They do already have a better XI than the rest of the league (bar Liverpool and City), their team works as a unit, their manager seems to know what he is doing, their players seem to improve due to good coaching... If they sell Alderweireld and Eriksen, then they will struggle to replace them with players of the same quality and experience, but Trippier should not be the biggest loss.

Arsenal does not have the biggest budget available, they have some serious issues in defence and replacing Ramsay for a low cost might be difficult.

Chelsea currently has a transfer ban. Their current manager looks likely to go back to Italy, their best player has left the club. Two of their most promising players in Loftus Cheek and CHO both got ruptured Achilles. Pulisic is a big uncertainty. Will Alonso find his form again?

Manchester United can at least spend a decent sum on players, but we are not a team, just eleven players on the same pitch. We lack a style of play, we finished the season in a less than ideal way, we have a number of players in the squad with a less than adequate ability on the ball and our best players wants to leave.

I think it is fair to say that there is a larger degree of uncertainty how it will go with Arsenal, Chelsea and Manchester United next season, compared to Tottenham.
 
How many goals and assists had Jadon made in the nations league?
 
So if we do bring in AWB as looks to be more than likely, do you think this will mean more of Dalot as a RW, leading to Sancho next summer, or potentially someone like Bale on loan for the year before getting him?
 
Jericholyte2 said:
So if we do bring in AWB as looks to be more than likely, do you think this will mean more of Dalot as a RW, leading to Sancho next summer, or potentially someone like Bale on loan for the year before getting him?
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Who knows, if Fernandes is brought in I could see us permanently moving to a 442 diamond, if that turns out to be BS we may see James play out on the right, we may see Lingard continue to operate out there or like you say we could bring in Bale

I don't see Dalot playing there a lot though nor do I think Sancho will happen this summer
 
Jericholyte2 said:
So if we do bring in AWB as looks to be more than likely, do you think this will mean more of Dalot as a RW, leading to Sancho next summer, or potentially someone like Bale on loan for the year before getting him?
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I see Bale on loan for a year and if we get top 4 then Sancho joins summer 2020, a right side of Wan Bissaka and Sancho could be us set for a decade.
 
Sancho not joining us this summer is ok. We can have a look at how he will be doing in the next season. If he does play well next season, he is going to cost 20m or 30m more which is nothing for us. Rather than spending 100m now and see him not able to replicate his form.
 
reddevilchennai said:
Sancho not joining us this summer is ok. We can have a look at how he will be doing in the next season. If he does play well next season, he is going to cost 20m or 30m more which is nothing for us. Rather than spending 100m now and see him not able to replicate his form.
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I agree but we still need a right winger. Someone versatile so we can still go for Sancho next year. I would go for David Brooks from Bournemouth.
 
reddevilchennai said:
Sancho not joining us this summer is ok. We can have a look at how he will be doing in the next season. If he does play well next season, he is going to cost 20m or 30m more which is nothing for us. Rather than spending 100m now and see him not able to replicate his form.
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Agreed.
The problem I see is that maybe we are going to have a competition to sign Sancho next summer. Also, if we don't sign quality players now, it could be difficult to be in the top 4 and play the Champions League.
 
Unrelated but Januzaj has undergone a complete revival at Sociedad.
 
Filipe said:
Unrelated but Januzaj has undergone a complete revival at Sociedad.
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Not this season. He was injured for months and inconsistant when he did play, some good games and some anonymous games etc.

Two la liga goals all season.
 
If he has a season like that again he’ll cost more than anyone would pay to get him.
 
He won’t join us this season but if we somehow sell Pogba let’s say £150m or £160m, and we use the money to buy Sancho, Dortmund won’t resist to reject the offer.
 
Fer said:
Agreed.
The problem I see is that maybe we are going to have a competition to sign Sancho next summer. Also, if we don't sign quality players now, it could be difficult to be in the top 4 and play the Champions League.
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Gareth Bale for a season on loan and Real paying half of his salary won't do any harm. We have a RW for a season and a quality one too.
 
FootballHQ said:
Not this season. He was injured for months and inconsistant when he did play, some good games and some anonymous games etc.

Two la liga goals all season.
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Yeah, not sure where this myth comes from. There’s quite a few players ahead of him at La Real
 
FootballHQ said:
Not this season. He was injured for months and inconsistant when he did play, some good games and some anonymous games etc.

Two la liga goals all season.
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Goals and assists are not the only way to measure a players impact, I don't believe in judging players based on stats but from the start of the season to January he was the leading crosser in La Liga with the highest amount of crossest and the highest accuracy ( He ranked top 5 in europe in this aspect), Top 10 in completed through balls and at that point had the second highest dribbling success rate in Europe! He is a top player now so watch him instead of judging by goals scored.
 
Filipe said:
Goals and assists are not the only way to measure a players impact, I don't believe in judging players based on stats but from the start of the season to January he was the leading crosser in La Liga with the highest amount of crossest and the highest accuracy ( He ranked top 5 in europe in this aspect), Top 10 in completed through balls and at that point had the second highest dribbling success rate in Europe! He is a top player now so watch him instead of judging by goals scored.
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Well I'm a little fan boy of La Real so watched many of their games and he didn't really stand out in many at all (Levante away was best game from him as he turned it around when he came on at 1-0 down).

He first played a game in late October and also had a spell out from late March until the final day of the season so he was injured for pretty much half the season aswell.

Nowhere near good enough for even this Man. United, Oryazabal is much better player for them.
 
FootballHQ said:
Well I'm a little fan boy of La Real so watched many of their games and he didn't really stand out in many at all (Levante away was best game from him as he turned it around when he came on at 1-0 down).

He first played a game in late October and also had a spell out from late March until the final day of the season so he was injured for pretty much half the season aswell.

Nowhere near good enough for even this Man. United, Oryazabal is much better player for them.
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I don't understand the purpose of your comment... I didn't say he was better than Oyarzabal.
 
Filipe said:
I don't understand the purpose of your comment... I didn't say he was better than Oyarzabal.
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He's "a top player."

He really isn't. If he came back to prem this summer it would West Ham or Watford level.
 
Dortmund spent 120M in this window on attacking players like Brandt, Hazard. Wondering if we can push them to sell Sancho to us now?
 
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