Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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dev1l said:
According to this United are skint, that s why we cannot afford Sancho
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Doesn't make any sense if we can't afford Sancho but the club didn't realise this earlier last month. Barcelona & Real made statement they won't spend big and that's why they are not in for Sancho this year and all their fans knew.
 
dev1l said:
According to this United are skint, that s why we cannot afford Sancho
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I’m not sure they are particularly impartial when it comes to the Glazers. They also think Willian was our second best option for right wing. So there’s that.
 
CG1010 said:
Maybe I sound like a blind supporter but I do trust Ole. Till now he has us very good players (barring James maybe) who have been great assets for the team, combined with good attitude.

I think we can do away with the need for a RW for another season if we don't get a Sacho-like player.. Greenwood is there and if we get another AM we could even play Bruno out on the wings. Especially if we invest in a good full back to provide the width.
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Bruno played on the right wing of 442 once in Portugal National Team last year, I remember it and he was bad. Right away the head coach decided to switch back to 433 and played him in midfield advanced role.
 
Time to move on and sign some other players. He will definitely improve our team no doubts, but with the emergence of Greenwood, there is not that desperation now. What we need to do is get quality replacements in for some of our players. Shame that City got hold of Torres at a decent cost. That's the kind of signing we should be looking for.
 
UNITED ACADEMY said:
Bruno played on the right wing of 442 once in Portugal National Team last year, I remember it and he was bad. Right away the head coach decided to switch back to 433 and played him in midfield advanced role.
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Yeah, they were trying to accommodate both Felix and Bruno. Shifting Bruno to the right would be madness, given his enormous impact from where he actually plays. Like having Phil Jones taking corners.
 
So is he pushing for the transfer? Are we ever going to actually place a bid? What's the go lads
 
7even said:
I want to comment about Hans Joachim Watzke and negotiations in general. (I made a similar comments when we bought Mkhitaryan)

Watzke is doing the same mistakes all over again.

He seems to never learn. First he put his reputation as a Westphalian on the line. Then he starts to criticize ex players who works as pundits. Finally he back track and start to use excuses why his club is short of cash. (All clubs struggle in a Pandemic, nothing new, that why selling Sancho is one option if Borussia D needs fresh cash)

This is my experience regarding negotiations.

If you’re in a good position you don’t have to talk more then necessary, let the silence do the job for you. Don’t insult people inside or outside the negotiation. Don’t assume things without knowledge. Never say something is set in stone. The world spin around, things can change. Let one person be the focal point of the negotiation. The more people who talks the more misunderstandings.

Another strategy is to be humble. Talk about each other and the deal with respect. Accepts that there is two ways to see the situation. Start as friends and end as good friends. Maybe you will do business again together.
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Indeed. This could still happen and he will look like an idiot. But he'll do anything to protect Dortmund I guess, as long as they feel good about themselves.
 
Womp said:
So is he pushing for the transfer? Are we ever going to actually place a bid? What's the go lads
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The club don't think it's over, they've briefed "the window shuts in Oct", they don't like how dortmund won't negotiate club-to-club. It's a protracted saga, people in the thread can't handle it so every dortmund statement is met with whinging of "deal is off" only for people to post the same screenshots time and time again to highlight Dortmund are compulsive liars.

The negotiations are ongoing. The club will brief Stone,Ducker,Peach et al if we walk away.
 
7even said:
The reason I prefer to read Borussia Dortmund’s annual reports instead of following Twitter and listen to the ITK it’s because where you find the money you often also find the answers. There is a reason why Watzke back track today and starts to talk about no money.

I don’t like to speculate when and how much but by reading the reports I can get an idea what’s financially possible or not. But more importantly you often find the right answers in the details.

Borussia Dortmund published information to their shareholders in the end of June 2020. The started by saying that they (the Board) will not make any forecast about future profit/losses regarding fiscal year 2019/20. By experience you know that’s negative news. But here is the interesting part. If you read the report in detail side by side with the Q3 report you can easily se that they forecast a loss of €21m in Q4. (April-June 2020) Nothing spectacular with that because Man United made the same prediction but what is interesting is that the Board of Borussia Dortmund themselves speculate about future transfer incomes. How many players in Borussia Dortmund generate a income above €50m? Well.,, Jadon Sancho is one.

If you read Watzke’s statement closely you see that he mention losses of €4m/ game. OK! Multiple those numbers with 10-15 home game and you start to understand the numbers. Another season without spectators can easily cost Borussia D (and Man United) figures in a region of €40-80m. Borussia has in Mars 31 cash reserves of €19m, United has cash reserves of £90m. Do the maths and Watzkes comments start to make sense.

Sooner or later Borussia Dortmund needs to use their credit of €60m if the Pandemic continue. Ed Woodward knows this. The same way Watzke knows about United‘s finances. It’s all there in Black and White.

Dortmund has done the right things. They put pressure on United and they have made strong statements that selling for a figure below €120m is unlikely. On the other if United don’t bite the “bone”they entering another problem. They need fresh money if they don’t want to use their credit. Keeping Sancho another season benefit them if the transfer market recover, but another season without spectators will send the market in the other direction. If all clubs except Man City, PSG and Chelsea will be without their own cash next season then the market will shrink significantly.

If Dortmund want to play safe they sell him. If they prefer to gamble with when the market will recover then they keep him.

Manchester United desperately needs a right winger and Sancho is by far our best option. Thats our position. I have no idea of the outcome but one thing is certain. Lot’s of bullshit is floating around.
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Nice post.

I think United have the upper hand in this negotiation by stalling. I wonder how much cash reserves of Dortmund is being drawn by this time since March. I wouldn't be surprised if they are currently drawing on their credit line already. The touted 60M upfront may be coincidental but sounds like a figure to ensure their credit continues revolving. Of course, if Dortmund could secure new funding they may be able to strengthen their position, but with the prospect of close stadiums, which bank is going to finance them? Plus if they indeed offer Sancho higher wages, their cash position weakens and potentially disrupts the wage structure at the club.

The point is that Dortmund needs to stay afloat more than United need Sancho. He may be the best winger for our current needs but there are potentially cheaper alternatives, don't ask me to name who but I find it extremely implausible that only Sancho can improve us. All the noise if coming from Dortmund end, and in this situation the more noise they make, it becomes more apparent that their hand is weaker.

I think the right tactic here is to stall and negotiate to sign other alternatives. Dortmund's cash position weakens they longer they remain stubborn. Let's bleed them out.
 
Womp said:
So is he pushing for the transfer? Are we ever going to actually place a bid? What's the go lads
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I'll give you an example to what stage I think we're in based on similar past transfers.

Juventus: 'No offers' for Manchester United target Pogba . Giuseppe Marotta says he has received "no contact" from Manchester United about Paul Pogba. Italian club holding out for bid worth world record £108m in total • Frenchman understood to be open to returning to ...

a month later ...

Paul Pogba: Manchester United confirm record £93.2m ...
Paul Pogba says wait for Manchester United deal was 'annoying'.

when you are about to break the British record you must time it perfectly. Woddy is an attention seeking freak. It'll be after the Europa.

Name a worse situation than a pandemic for football clubs? it's the best time to sell your best assets before you go on a year and so without fans money. They're trying to get as much of us as they can. We're in Pole position with out a fat gready agent shadowing the deal. Just relax and enjoy these last couple matches.
 
I think all this doom and gloom reports are coming from Dortmund. Dortmund are a club who sell players to survive. Their finances had taken a huge hit following the covid crisis and they are desperate to sell Jadon on silly money to recoup most of the costs. I think that they are trying to make us look silly to stroke our ego and then cave in on the price.

If I was Woodward I'd bid a 50m bid on Chiesa and another 30m bid + Smalling on Zaniolo. These are not the Willians of football but players who could sort the RW issue on long term thus taking a potential big buyer for Sancho out of the market for good. Lets see how Dortmund react to that. With Sancho burning bridges with Shitty, Liverpool not being a big buyer, Chelsea securing the flanks with Ziyech, Real not spending as they used to do and Barca being a mess there's not many big buyers out there that can match us.
 
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Womp said:
So is he pushing for the transfer? Are we ever going to actually place a bid? What's the go lads
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Very unlikely to happen unfortunately. For it to work now, Sancho needs to push for a move and United still need to pay the amount Dortmund want or they will not sell considering the statement they made. Unless the above two things happen (and it seems very unlikely at the moment) it's time for us to move on to other targets.
 
RedPnutz said:
Nice post.

I think United have the upper hand in this negotiation by stalling. I wonder how much cash reserves of Dortmund is being drawn by this time since March. I wouldn't be surprised if they are currently drawing on their credit line already. The touted 60M upfront may be coincidental but sounds like a figure to ensure their credit continues revolving. Of course, if Dortmund could secure new funding they may be able to strengthen their position, but with the prospect of close stadiums, which bank is going to finance them? Plus if they indeed offer Sancho higher wages, their cash position weakens and potentially disrupts the wage structure at the club.

The point is that Dortmund needs to stay afloat more than United need Sancho. He may be the best winger for our current needs but there are potentially cheaper alternatives, don't ask me to name who but I find it extremely implausible that only Sancho can improve us. All the noise if coming from Dortmund end, and in this situation the more noise they make, it becomes more apparent that their hand is weaker.

I think the right tactic here is to stall and negotiate to sign other alternatives. Dortmund's cash position weakens they longer they remain stubborn. Let's bleed them out.
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I agree with almost everything you said apart from the stalling part. We've got a short time window when we can buy players thus our negotiation stance weaken the more we wake.

Instead we should go on the offensive by bidding for alternatives. I am not referring to short term fixes here. That would give Dortmund the peace of mind that we'll come knocking at their door in 12 months time. I am referring to players who can sort the RW issue once and for all like for example Chiesa. Fiorentina are pretty much in Dortmund's position at the moment. They need the money, they have a great asset on their hands, they need good money for him but everyone is stalling. If we bid 55m on him then rest assured that Fiorentina would parade that to the 4 corners of the world as they would be hoping that it would kickstart an auction. That would give Dortmund headaches as a potential big buyer might soon vanish for good. With Sancho burning bridges with Shitty, Chelsea having sorted the RW position, Real not being the big buyers they used to be and Liverpool not needing him that would hurt Dortmund badly.

The choice will then be between keeping Sancho and risk financial ruin or sell him on a decent fee even though not the 120m they want.
 
Has Sancho burned bridges with City? Was is not Pep he had the problem with? I see it similar to Pogba leaving us in 2012, I can easily imagine Sancho back at City next summer
 
United58 said:
Has Sancho burned bridges with City? Was is not Pep he had the problem with? I see it similar to Pogba leaving us in 2012, I can easily imagine Sancho back at City next summer
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When was the last time that Shitty spent 120m euros on a player? Epecially a player who had already showed them the middle finger

Very few clubs can do that
 
peridigm said:
Even you admit it's not over.
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Emotionally and as a life long United supporter yes I don't admit it's over, but logically there is enough out there now to admit it's not happening.
laughtersassassin said:
It's 50/50. Of it wasn't Dortmund would have stopped all talks but by all reports we are still in talks so explain that. ......
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I hope with all my heart what you are saying turns out to be true
laughtersassassin said:
It's 50/50. Of it wasn't Dortmund would have stopped all talks but by all reports we are still in talks so explain that. ......
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Yeah not denying the Journos, just saying it's 50-50 rather than 90-10 is what I disagree with. If you look at all the clues together it's a more dire situation that you are assuming.
United are not talking about openly because officially we haven't submitted a bid, if we submit a bid that gets rejected, we are more in a position to say we tried and failed.
 
I'll stick my neck out and say I doubt we see any movement on this till we're finished with the EL, we'll get positive hints and drips and drops of goodness before then though. We've made it clear that we're in no rush, and I suppose rightfully so as its only August 15th.
 
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Judas said:
I'll stick my neck out and say I doubt we see any movement on this till we're finished with the EL, we'll get positive hints and drips and drops of goodness before then though. We've made it clear that we're in no rush, and I suppose rightfully so as its only August 15th.
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You’ve been sticking your neck out so much in this thread you probably look like Melman.
 
Judas said:
I'll stick my neck out and say I doubt we see any movement on this till we're finished with the EL, we'll get positive hints and drips and drops of goodness before then though. We've made it clear that we're in no rush, and I suppose rightfully so as its only August 15th.
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Weren’t there reports saying we were frustrated by how slowly negations were moving?



IIRC a few others said the same
 
Trying to think, have we ever made a summer signing when our season is yet to be completed? I can’t think of one but I might be wrong. Zaha maybe?
 
dwd said:
Trying to think, have we ever made a summer signing when our season is yet to be completed? I can’t think of one but I might be wrong. Zaha maybe?
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Maybe Nani and Anderson?
 
dwd said:
Trying to think, have we ever made a summer signing when our season is yet to be completed? I can’t think of one but I might be wrong. Zaha maybe?
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Depay, announced his deal on May 18.
 
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