Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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.mica said:
Come on mate, why so salty? Enjoy the ride! Seems that you guys getting Sancho, Dortmund a lot of money, win-win!
I don't want to "shit" on you, i am just responding to senseless posts aimed at my direction instead of talking about what is the subject here.
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Genuine question, how do you feel about Dortmund’s business model? It is obviously designed to make tons of money, and you have of course challenged for titles over the years, but do you think you will have the opportunity to grow out of it and be seen as an elite club? Or is that not an ambition?

Apologies if that sounded condescending, I’m just curious because you’ve sold so many talented players that if you kept them you might have won some trophies.
 
duffer said:
Once the decision has been made to buy a player, it should not take weeks and weeks. This is not Man Uniteds first (or second, or third) time buying big and it's also not Dortmund's first time selling big.

I'm not trying to have a dig at all, just always seems bizarre when transfers drag out for ages then miraculously get done 2 mins before the deadline closes, almost as though the two clubs are playing chicken with each other.
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Umm, there's like a Premier League season going on, dude.
 
Rolaholic said:
They're not even the best run club in Germany :lol:

They always have loads of talent yet have hardly ever had a sniff of the league title since Klopp got sacked.

Being a factorg/developmental club for bigger teams seems to be their model though so I imagine winning isn't too high on their list of priorities.
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Well, United wouldn't have won a single Bundesliga of the last 9 too. Maybe 2010 or 2011, but after that not even once and not even close.

Even Klopp was nowhere near the title in his last seasons. And to be fair, Dortmund looked like the winning team in Bundesliga, just until Bayern finally sacked Kovac and became pretty much unbeatable again.
 
OutlawGER said:
Well, United wouldn't have won a single Bundesliga of the last 9 too. Maybe 2010 or 2011, but after that not even once and not even close.

Even Klopp was nowhere near the title in his last seasons. And to be fair, Dortmund looked like the winning team in Bundesliga, just until Bayern finally sacked Kovac and became pretty much unbeatable again.
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Not sure about that, our 17/18 side under Mourinho finished 3 points off what Bayern did that same season with the PL obviously being far more competitive
 
people underestimate the stranglehold that Bayern have over the whole league. They simply operate in a different universe than Dortmund does, and the stars have to align in order for them to win the title. Bayern would have to struggle AND Dortmund would have to overperform, and that simply doesn't happen too often. 2018/19 was the only year where it could have happened: Bayern struggled with Kovac and had a bit of a squad rebuild going on, and Dortmund came out flying in the fall. I believe they were up 9 points at some point. Sadly they couldn't pull it off. Now their window's closed again, with Hakimi and probably Sancho leaving.

I think if there's a team that could win a title there any time soon, it's Leipzig. They have money, ambition, a great young coach and a blatant cheat code (their farm team in Salzburg) ... but it'll take a while, plus they are losing great talent too (see Werner). Dortmund have found their niche: they are a well-run, financially stable club that is basically a lock for a top 3 finish, plus they have built a reputation for giving chances to young top talents. At the same time, the reliance on selling these talents will guarantee that they can't contend on a constant basis.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Genuine question, how do you feel about Dortmund’s business model? It is obviously designed to make tons of money, and you have of course challenged for titles over the years, but do you think you will have the opportunity to grow out of it and be seen as an elite club? Or is that not an ambition?

Apologies if that sounded condescending, I’m just curious because you’ve sold so many talented players that if you kept them you might have won some trophies.
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If you look where Dortmund is coming from (they were bancrupt in the 00's and close to relegation), you can tell why they are not an elite club yet. Especially in times like the 10's, where money for the likes of PSG, City and Chelsea plays no role. Dortmund simply can't compete money-wise, because they have no suggar daddy and not the money the PL and La Liga has from TV deals etc.

They also have not the international prestige other clubs have, such as Bayern, Juve, Milan, Real, Barca, United etc. because they were nothing in the 00's. So how can you grow into an elite club on the long term without a suggar daddy with this tough competition? Build prestige and money? Especially with a club like Bayern ahead of you?

I think the only way to do it, is the way they are trying. They pretty much do, what Bayern did until the 00's. Buy regional talent (from Gladbach, Leverkusen, etc), with the difference, that they are also buying international talent to get money. They have no other choice. And i think they are doing it right, and if their strategy keeps working like it is, they will someday reach the position to be called an elite club too. But first they need Bayern to decline a little i guess. And under Kovac they started to decline.

So to answer your question (even though you didn't direct it at me), yes i am pretty sure that they want to grow into an elite club, but considering their limitations they need to be patient because this is probably the hardest thing to archieve in this business these days. But over the past 10 years they have done an unbelievably incredible job and are on a good way.
 
OutlawGER said:
If you look where Dortmund is coming from (there were bancrupt in the 00's and close to relegation), you can tell why they are not an elite club yet. Especially in times like the 10's, where money for the likes of PSG, City and Chelsea plays no role. Dortmund simply can't compete money-wise, because they have no suggar daddy and not the money the PL and La Liga has from TV deals etc.

They also have not the international prestige other clubs have, such as Bayern, Juve, Milan, Real, Barca, United etc. because they were nothing in the 00's. So how can you grow into an elite club on the long term without a suggar daddy with this tough competition? Build prestige and money? Especially with a club like Bayern ahead of you?

I think the only way to do it, is the way they are trying. They pretty much do, what Bayern did until the 00's. Buy regional talent (from Gladbach, Leverkusen, etc), with the difference, that they are also buying international talent to get money. They have no other choice. And i think they are doing it right, and if their strategy keeps working like it is, they will someday reach the position to be called an elite club too. But first they need Bayern to decline a little i guess. And under Kovac they started to decline.

So to answer your question (even though you didn't direct it at me), yes i am pretty sure that they want to grow into an elite club, but considering their limitations they need to be patient. But over the past 10 years they have done an unbelievably incredible job and are on a good way.
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Fair enough, thank you for the in depth reply. They clearly do a good job with their image too, they seem to be many peoples second favourite club, and like you said it takes time.
 
duffer said:
Transfers are made during the season all the time. You lot signed Bruno during this season for example.
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Feel like there's a difference to sign players mid-season when they can actually contribute, to signing players while we are at squeaky bum time at the end to focus on finishing the season well.

Signing players right now could potentially distract our current players when they need to focus, get them thinking about their future instead of playing so well they might convince Ole and the others that we don't need a new player in their spot. (We will of course sign others, but players gotta have faith.)

A signing right now couldn't contribute on the field until September either, so the potential distraction is not worth it until August, maybe even after EL, unless a deal has to be made asap or the player goes elsewhere. For everyone on the pitch to focus on the now and not the future.
 
we've entered the annoying oppo fans phase

to be fair to the Dortmund lads, they are way less annoying than the Leicester fans last summer
 
.mica said:
I guess nobody needs a twitter-message to know how "relaxed" Woodward always is. He proofed this for years. Its interessting, you have two clubs, one is nearly always the first with their buisness and transfers fninshed, having solved everything before its gets busy. The other is nearly always the last of all clubs, preparing bids and all this. Now they have to meet each other. I guess it was for a reason that Dortmund pronounced a deadline day. A professionall DoF at United would have known the circumstances (you need to have in mind to deal with other clubs). With Woodward you need to bump him into with his nose.
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I suspect if our primary target was Axel Witsel or Julian Brandt from Leverkusen, we’d wrap all our deals up quickly too.

I’d like to see Dortmund try and get Maguire from Leicester in a week.
 
OutlawGER said:
Well, United wouldn't have won a single Bundesliga of the last 9 too. Maybe 2010 or 2011, but after that not even once and not even close.

Even Klopp was nowhere near the title in his last seasons. And to be fair, Dortmund looked like the winning team in Bundesliga, just until Bayern finally sacked Kovac and became pretty much unbeatable again.
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fecking hell, can any German club fan talk about Dortmund or Bayern without taking shit at ManUtd?

You guys have too much salt and yes since this is a massive ManUtd forum, you get few who will play down other leagues and clubs, doesn't mean you guys have to reply to that all the time to shit on ManUtd.

Also how do you know ManUtd wouldn't have won league title in the last 9 years when we were consistently scoring 80-85+ points in PL and SAF had manager till 2013? If ManUtd was a German club maybe Bayern would have been Dortmund or Schlake, who knows. Likewise if bayern was PL club, maybe you would have been Spurs or some other midtable club.

Also just FYI except the last part, Liverpool title challenge last longer now.
Opposition Fans
All football fans are welcome on RedCafe.net. Once you engage in mature and sensible debates (and have a thick skin), you’ll be treated like any other member. However, if you are joining with the intent of ‘winding up’ our community, your user account will last about as long as a Liverpool title challenge!
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.mica said:
Wait, iam preparing a post.



Nah. Sancho is/was a great footballer in our team. I enjoyed having him here, i think he enjoyed it too. We bought him for an apple and an egg, now getting a massive fee for him. I couldn't be more relaxed. Zorc is a genius. I wouldn't switch, if i had the choice between being a United fan and being desperate for a RW since years and now have to argue with my mates and forums how much we want or can pay for him, or being a Dortmund fan, sitting relaxed in a chair, seeing massive sums here and there, and knowing that Zorc got his future plans already in the agenda... It was a good time with Sancho. Now he helps getting the club more and more up on the ladder, exactly that was the plan. So, pay Woodward pay! You lazy bastard! So that we can go on.
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That’s your prerogative not switching but ultimately you’re a second tier club in your own league. Some of your best players go to spend their best years at Bayern and then you welcome them back with open arms. You can harp on about the genius Zorc but I doubt he or anyone will get you anywhere near to the status of Man United in world football. So pipe the feck down.
 
Red Devil 26 said:
It's always puzzled me that fans of clubs like Dortmund possess so much contentment in their club being well run and making huge profits from transfers when ultimately it amounts to very little sustained success or silverware. From a fan perspective, my club having a great business model just isn't something I could ever truly revel in and celebrate.
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That’s what you have to resort to when your biggest rival wins 9 titles in a row. Pathetic.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Who is this guy?
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Harry Pinero is a United fan and presenter for an Urban Music platform, and also has one of these ‘come to United bro’ videos floating around with Sancho from last summer.
 
Rozay said:
Harry Pinero is a United fan and presenter for an Urban Music platform, and also has one of these ‘come to United bro’ videos floating around with Sancho from last summer.
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Alright so would he be in the know then?
 
BuLi fans (especially Bayern and BvB) really have the thinnest skin amongst football fans.

Really desperate for others to say how great their league and teams are.

I think that's what happens when you have 1 CL and 2 finals for the entire league over the last 18 years, despite your delusions that the league is so good.

Zero Europa cups and one finals over the same period as well.
 
OutlawGER said:
Well, United wouldn't have won a single Bundesliga of the last 9 too. Maybe 2010 or 2011, but after that not even once and not even close.

Even Klopp was nowhere near the title in his last seasons. And to be fair, Dortmund looked like the winning team in Bundesliga, just until Bayern finally sacked Kovac and became pretty much unbeatable again.
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If United was in the Bundesliga with our financial muscle we could've easily won titles because we too would've cherry picked the best talents domestically.
 
OutlawGER said:
Well, United wouldn't have won a single Bundesliga of the last 9 too. Maybe 2010 or 2011, but after that not even once and not even close.

Even Klopp was nowhere near the title in his last seasons. And to be fair, Dortmund looked like the winning team in Bundesliga, just until Bayern finally sacked Kovac and became pretty much unbeatable again.
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Perhaps in your subjective view but you speak like it's fact which it's not.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Alright so would he be in the know then?
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Who knows. It’s not impossible. The two know each other, but I can’t speak of the extent of their relationship. My thinking would be that if Harry Pinero knows, then half the World knows. I don’t think he’d be in the most privileged circle for something like this, but pure speculation on my part.
 
SmallCaine said:
Are they actually reliable? Just read their posts.

In February they were all convinced that chong is going to inter and gomes is signing a contract. They did werner itk review, where only 1 guy mentions Chelsea that too in just 1 post. But they are all apparently correct because utd were never interested and didn't sign him. Funny they didn't do any Chong or Gomes reviews.

Vdb is another interesting one, no mention until news broke. One even said file closed the day the vdb news broke and suddenly very conveniently all had info of vdb the very next day. One itk even says 99% done, before that news they were all in unison about grealish being done, but once vdb news broke the grealish price just wasn't right. The same guy who said vdb 99% done a few days later says its between grealish and vdb with choice left to ole. That doesn't even make sense, one is a am and can play lw, the other is a dlp. Also how does a transfer get 99% done if manager doesn't know who he wants?
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Actually they did get Gomes more correct than the multitude of sources who were saying that Gomes had already signed. They instead kept on saying that it was a sensitive situation and it was unlikely he would sign (some info in the comments of those posts with regards to this) . Also no one got Chong correct, even Fabrizio Romano said he had agreed with Inter. Ultimately Chong made a last minute decision to stay.

As far as percentage done, people definitely have criticized that and asked for more clarification. Done can mean a lot of things (i.e. paperwork done or verbal agreement) but the done that people really care about, rightly, is if the transfer will happen or not.

About VDB, the person who said VDB was closed (G5) was different from the person who said there was something happening (ITK4) and G5 maintained his stance throughout the succeeding days: "If you look back to January and just afterwards (as well as even last summer) VDB was high on our list and even with Ed’s team already. Bit confused by the whole situation as was definitely told it was closed this week but we just hadn’t had activity in ages. Could’ve been right before they reached out to us".

Ultimately you have to take what anyone says with regards to transfers with a pinch of salt. You also have to be capable of reading comprehension too however.

If posters here want the reddit discussion in another thread I'm happy to shift it there but to be honest, if this sort of discussion makes you uncomfortable then the transfer forum is definitely not for you.
 
Rozay said:
Who knows. It’s not impossible. The two know each other, but I can’t speak of the extent of their relationship. My thinking would be that if Harry Pinero knows, then half the World knows. I don’t think he’d be in the most privileged circle for something like this, but pure speculation on my part.
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Thanks. Didn’t you say you heard something? Seems like too much smoke. Hopefully the deal happens.
 
SirAnderson said:
The feck is this Dortmund fan coming here on to our forum to shite on us and come with this smug attitude? And a newbie to boot! Hopefully the 5 posts are up, cause I can't stand reading the crap he spews. Not even worth responding to anything he says directly.

Anyway, love the comment from Zorc, just further solidifies and justifies going full muppet mode on this. Hopefully we will have a chance for all our local Lip reading, hand writing, plane tracking, and especially gizz making muppets the opportunity to do what every great transfer needs!
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The German Gladston
 
OutlawGER said:
Well, United wouldn't have won a single Bundesliga of the last 9 too. Maybe 2010 or 2011, but after that not even once and not even close.

Even Klopp was nowhere near the title in his last seasons. And to be fair, Dortmund looked like the winning team in Bundesliga, just until Bayern finally sacked Kovac and became pretty much unbeatable again.
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You guys virtually play in a 1 team league. Like the Scottish league but obviously a higher standard. The financial gulf between yourselves and the rest is bloody huge. If there is any hint of a team that may challenge yourselves for the title, they will no doubt end up losing their best players to most likely yourselves or possibly abroad but more likely to yourselves

Also how many league titles would Bayern have won if they were playing in a much more competitive league like ours? In the past 10 years, I’d say 1/ possibly 2 as you wouldn’t have the huge financial advantage that you presently have over the rest of the German teams and the Premier League is a much more competitive league than the Bundesliga.

If United were in the Bundesliga with our resources and huge finances, we of course would have won a couple of Bundesliga’s as we’d be able to do what you lot currently do in a 1 team league. Basically hoover up all the best available talent from potential title rivals/ not have to worry about replacing your best players as you aren’t a selling club like your rivals are.
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Thanks. Didn’t you say you heard something? Seems like too much smoke. Hopefully the deal happens.
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Think there’s a lot of smoke around it for sure. And yea, I’m not any sort of ITK, it is just by chance that one of my best mates is related to senior members at at Elite Project Agency. He was at my house the other day and got a text off his brother and said ‘Sancho’s going to United, apparently Temi said’ - but I can’t speak of the context of the conversation, whether it was definitive info or just more w confirmation of what we all kind of know, which is that some sort of deal is being pursued. I didn’t want to put him in an uncomfortable position by basically begging him to ‘call Temi and clarify for me’ - it is privileged information after all, and it isn’t even like Temi is a friend of mine to be asking for me. He knows that I’m interested in the info though, so I guess if he does hear something (we do a lot of football bets together and I’d imagine he’d want to bet on it if he knows something), he’d tell me.
 
Rozay said:
Think there’s a lot of smoke around it for sure. And yea, I’m not any sort of ITK, it is just by chance that one of my best mates is related to senior members at at Elite Project Agency. He was at my house the other day and got a text off his brother and said ‘Sancho’s going to United, apparently Temi said’ - but I can’t speak of the context of the conversation, whether it was definitive info or just more w confirmation of what we all kind of know, which is that some sort of deal is being pursued. I didn’t want to put him in an uncomfortable position by basically begging him to ‘call Temi and clarify for me’ - it is privileged information after all, and it isn’t even like Temi is a friend of mine to be asking for me. He knows that I’m interested in the info though, so I guess if he does hear something (we do a lot of football bets together and I’d imagine he’d want to bet on it if he knows something), he’d tell me.
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Let me know please. I need to pay my garden off. Ha ha.
 
RedDevilRoshi said:
You guys virtually play in a 1 team league. Like the Scottish league but obviously a higher standard. The financial gulf between yourselves and the rest is bloody huge. If there is any hint of a team that may challenge yourselves for the title, they will no doubt end up losing their best players to most likely yourselves or possibly abroad but more likely to yourselves

Also how many league titles would Bayern have won if they were playing in a much more competitive league like ours? In the past 10 years, I’d say 1/ possibly 2 as you wouldn’t have the huge financial advantage that you presently have over the rest of the German teams and the Premier League is a much more competitive league than the Bundesliga.

If United were in the Bundesliga with our resources and huge finances, we of course would have won a couple of Bundesliga’s as we’d be able to do what you lot currently do in a 1 team league.
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I was not comparing the leagues, it is obvious that the PL is much more competitive, i was just implying how strong that Bayern team was (ask the London teams). Easily a top 3 team of the last decade, more likely top 2. I was making this point, because you guys tend to argue against BVB that they don't win the league. It's just because Bayern was and is that good and i think it is not fair for BVB to judge them by that.

In the 00's it has been a 1-club league too, but still there have been quite some different champions (BVB, Bremen, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart). The Bundesliga teams have not become worse, Bayern simply have become much better and more consistent. The Bayern team of the 10's under Van Gaal, Heynckes and Guardiola is an historic team which will be remembered and which should have won at least one or two more CLs, quality wise. So how is that Dortmunds fault, not winning the title (with their restrictions)?
 
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duffer said:
Once the decision has been made to buy a player, it should not take weeks and weeks. This is not Man Uniteds first (or second, or third) time buying big and it's also not Dortmund's first time selling big.

I'm not trying to have a dig at all, just always seems bizarre when transfers drag out for ages then miraculously get done 2 mins before the deadline closes, almost as though the two clubs are playing chicken with each other.
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You are assuming that there are daily calls between Dortmund and United over this transfer and they argue and cut the call. And then get up next morning and go for it again.
Maybe both clubs have agreed they will talk at the end of season or something of that sort.I think Romano or some journos said that Dortmund and United haven't started their discussions at all.
 
OutlawGER said:
team of the last decade, more likely top 2.
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How is Bayern even remotely close to RM and Barca over this period?

You haven't even reached a CL final since 2012-13, when Fergie was still managing United.

At best, Bayern have been at the same level as Juventus or City.

Stop overrating your team based off dominating a 1-team league.
 
SinNombre said:
How is Bayern even remotely close to RM and Barca over this period?

You haven't even reached a CL final since 2012-13, when Fergie was still managing United.

At best, Bayern have been at the same level as Juventus or City.

Stop overrating your team based off dominating a 1-team league.
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Sorry, but ...

:lol:

Bayern has reached 3 finals and i don't even remember how many semis from 2010-2019. 7? 8? And you compare them to City?
 
OutlawGER said:
Sorry, but ...

:lol:

Bayern has reached 3 finals and i don't even remember how many semis from 2010-2019. 7? 8? And you compare them to City?
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Sorry but looks like you are agreeing that Bayern are nowhere near RM or Barca

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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