Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

[sammsky1]

Sensible? Do we have an extra £250m knocking about somewhere?

His brief was he had 'unlimited budget'

 

[mav_9me]

What I don't get about this deal is we will look so stupid if we don't get this done now.

Surely we would have pulled out ages ago to save face?

Especially since we also didn't get Ole a CB which was his other target apparently.

It just doesn't add up.

I think it adds up to incompetence. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see.

 

[blackhawk747]

if dortmund sells now, their fans will explode

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

His brief was he had 'unlimited budget': actually makes sensible recommendations

Upamecano is not for sale this window so forget about that.
Telles is an upgrade on Shaw and if hes available for less than EUR25m then its a decent deal
N'didi is an excellent DM but hes injured and Leicester would demand £80m minimum so forget that.
Sanho, who knows what's going to happen there
Kane. No - hes a brilliant player but doesn't fit the way Ole is setting united up. Also we have Martial and Greenwood for the ST position.

 

[Matriac]

At this stage, would you rather buy Sancho for 120m, or buy a DC, LB, backup DM and backup RWF for the same? (Let's say 30m on each, which would be cost of a decent player in this market)

Either way works for me. We need to improve! Whether we improve our attack with Sancho or improve our defense with the options you mentioned it wont matter to me. But I don’t see us bringing in 3-4 players so Sancho is the more realistic option.

Sancho. We've seen it time and time again when clubs get an influx of cash from losing their best player and decide to spend it across the team and it almost never works out. Especially for big clubs - quality>quantity. We don't have enough star power to take us to the next level and spreading 100m over 4 players (20m each) won't change that. Yes we'll have the necessary cover which likely guarantees us top 4 but it's almost certain we won't go further than that. On top of that, I don't trust our scouting department to get it right on even 2 of these hypothetical 4 players that we could get whereas Sancho is a clear world class player in the making in a position we desperately need filling.

Even if we wanted to do this we couldn't. There's no room in the squad. We already have to sell/drop 2 players as it is without buying anyone else.
If we really want to get in a number of squad players we can do that next summer if we are willing to let contracts run out, but I doubt we will for all. It depends on what target(s) we can get this window.

The post below is lengthy, linking to a thread I made to put up the facts of our squad and why we (likely) haven't confirmed other purchases yet.

This post will explore the reasons for why we haven't confirmed any other signings yet, and why it's complicated to get it all to add up.

The rules for each teams squad for any season in the Premier League states that each team can comprise of a maximum of 25 players, 17 of which can be anyone, the remaining 8 needs to have homegrown status to be allowed in the squad. On top of this you can have an unlimited amount of U-21 players that can be utilized in the squad for games in the Premier League. This squad needs to be confirmed at the end of the transfer window, and if your name is not on the list by then you won't be allowed to play in the Premier League until you can be put on the list at the next transfer window. You can feature in domestic cups, but most senior players wouldn't like to not be eligible for league games.

We currently have 27 Senior Squad members, good thing is 15 of those have Homegrown status, so we have options. However, if we don't sell anyone we will have to leave 2 senior players out of the squad that can play Premier League matches, and that's before buying anyone else. Below I'll list our squad with some relevant info for this and next season.

Senior Squad Members
Keepers:

Name:	Homegrown?	Contract Ending Summer 2021	Option for another year?
David de Gea
Dean Henderson	Yes
Sergio Romero		Yes	Yes
Lee Grant	Yes	Yes	No

Grant is a likely candidate to be left out of the PL squad if need be, unless we move on Romero. I would guess Grant might move into our coaching team at some level once his contract runs out next summer.

Defenders:

Name:	Homegrown?	Contract Ending Summer 2021	Option for another year?
Harry Maguire	Yes
Victor Lindelöf
Chris Smalling	Yes
Eric Bailly
Marcos Rojo		Yes	No
Axel Tuanzebe	Yes
Phil Jones	Yes
Luke Shaw	Yes
Aaron Wan-Bissaka	Yes
Timothy Fosu-Mensah	Yes	Yes	No

As I understand we are hoping to sell Smalling, Rojo, Jones. Though Rojo's contract runs out next summer, so if we want to get rid of all 3 it's more important to sell the two others if we can't sell them all.

Midfielders:

Name:	Homegrown?	Contract Ending Summer 2021	Option for another year?
Nemanja Matic
Paul Pogba	Yes	Yes	Yes
Donny van de Beek
Scott McTominay	Yes
Fred
Bruno Fernandes
Jesse Lingard	Yes	Yes	Yes
Andreas Pereira	Yes
Juan Mata		Yes	Yes

Attackers:

Name:	Homegrown?	Contract Ending Summer 2021	Option for another year?
Marcus Rashford	Yes
Daniel James	Yes
Anthony Martial
Odion Ighalo		No, but Jan 31st 2021

U-21 Regular First Team Squad Members

Name:	U-21 for how much longer	Will be Homegrown?
Diogo Dalot	1 Season (this)	Unsure, I think he missed it by 1 year? Unless this season counts.
Brandon Williams	2 Seasons	Yes
Mason Greenwood	3 Seasons	Yes

I'm only listing those U-21 that have featured regularly last season and who many consider part of the senior squad, Mengi and others come on top of these.


How to interpret the Squad Bingo:
As mentioned above, unless we sell anyone we will have to leave out 2 Senior players from the Premier League squad. For all we know, some might even have it in their contract that we can't drop them from the PL squad or they are owed x amount of money or something along those lines. If we buy anyone else like Sancho we'll have to leave out 3 players.
Another factor in this is our negotiation power with clubs that might want to buy our undesired players. If they know we have to sell them to get down to our squad quota or we can't even use them, then they are more likely to lowball offer to us. Possibly what has happened with Roma and Smalling. We said we bought VdB earlier than planned because we had to as others wanted to close a deal, but before then we had to drop one player, Grant might have been the easy choice then since he will retire anyway, but for now we have to drop two.

Ighalo (likely) leaves in January, opening up one spot, so we have room for a winter addition at least if someone becomes available.

Looking onto next summer, if we sell nobody either now or in January. 7 players have contracts ending, 4 of those have options for another year. We'll guaranteed either extend or sign a new contract with Pogba at least. That means that we can potentially have 21 Senior Squad members next summer (with Ighalo having left earlier if no replacement in Jan, 6 more out of contract and Dalot no longer U-21), with 12/13 (of required 8) having Homegrown status. I don't think we will drop all 6, and we might extend with Lingard and possibly Mata. TFM might be offered a new contract if he does well in the coming months, if not he's free to pre-sign with others from January. Many other things may or may not happen as well. Maybe our squad is 23, or 25 if we buy two more players now/Jan.

If we were to sell/get rid of Smalling, Jones, Pereira, Lingard and not offer TFM a new contract, next summer we would have 9 or 10(unsure about Dalot) Homegrown. Some want us to sell James and Tuanzebe (and Dalot) as well. If so we'll be flying close to the limit of 8 if we are to have the maximum potential squad options of 25 players. This is likely another reason for the criticized "Brexit FC" strategy, why we looked closer at quality long-term additions with Homegrown status, since it seemed likely we would get rid of a lot of our older ones. If we buy Sancho this window he will be Homegrown, but not if we buy next summer (unless I'm mistaken).

This also explains why we can't easily take punts on cheap players like Jens Petter Hauge as many have wanted lately, he would be U-21 for this season, but next summer he would be a senior squad member with no Homegrown status. Which player in the squad's place would he take? Mata has no homegrown, but plays a different role. Pereira is perhaps a good shout, but we will lose out on another Homegrown squad member.

Conclusion:
There are a lot of possibilities to consider with how to make our current squad fit the quota of 25 for this and the next season, plus leaving room for desired additions. As mentioned I have no idea if we are unable to drop some/most players from the PL Squad due to contractual obligations. There are several players we would like to sell now, but the covid climate is probably not making that easier, plus the fact that clubs know that we HAVE to sell players now. Especially if we want to buy anyone else before the window closes. It's a game of chicken, and what losses we might be willing to take when it all comes down to the deadline now.

I think we will sell Smalling in the end of this window, and if we don't sell Romero we will leave Grant out of the PL squad. But if we want to buy any other players we have to sell someone, or leave someone out of the squad. This is another reason why we can't drop our interest in Sancho to instead buy 3 other squad players, cause there's currently no room in the squad.

I'm not sure how much of this is news to most people on here, but it's a thread I've been wanting to write for some days as I see so many wondering why we aren't all over cheap deals or why we haven't signed more players yet. The simple answer is we have to sell, and do what we can to not end up players short of homegrown status in the longer run (good thing our academy really helps with this).

 

[The Man Himself]

Big day today!

 

[DevilRed]

Happy Sancho Day!

Today is going to be a good day.

 

[elmo]

Does preparing our bid requires virgin sacrifices on a blue moon?

We're taking forever with it. Sancho would probably have retired by the time we submit the bid.

 

[Sky1981]

Does preparing our bid requires virgin sacrifices on a blue moon?

We're taking forever with it. Sancho would probably have retired by the time we submit the bid.

We don't have 120M in cash, so we counter offer with installment

In order to do that, we have to recalculate our financial and legal and accounting, which takes time, approval from finance dept etc.

So it's not like in FM where we just resubmit via pressing one button

 

[IAmAWinner]

Surely if we are to sign him, things have to get going today. Massive day today, most important of the saga so far.

 

[Bobcat]

So if this ends in tears, do we actually have a plan B here? Going into the season with 5 attacking players covering 3 spots is going to be rough

 

[WPMUFC]

So if this ends in tears, do we actually have a plan B here? Going into the season with 5 attacking players covering 3 spots is going to be rough

Nope for weeks now it has been Sancho or Bust for RW. We may try and save face by buying Telles on deadline day. That's about it.

 

[Isotope]

We don't have 120M in cash, so we counter offer with installment

In order to do that, we have to recalculate our financial and legal and accounting, which takes time, approval from finance dept etc.

So it's not like in FM where we just resubmit via pressing one button

It seems like you're knowledgeable about putting a financial package. So how long of this "takes time" you mentioned about?

 

[LisburnWhite]

Then put your little hand in mine
There ain't no hill or mountain we can't climb
Babe
I got you babe
I got you babe

OK, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties cause it's cold out there. It's cold out there every day.

"Happy Sancho day, again"

 

[Sky1981]

I thought we've been monitoring him for 2 years. That's a long time to put a financial package.

It takes 2 to tango, unless it's a buyout clause then many things depends on Dortmund as well.

They might have to relay their offer to their CEO, which may or may not feel the need to speed things up, just like our fax machine.

 

[Isotope]

It takes 2 to tango, unless it's a buyout clause then many things depends on Dortmund as well.

They might have to relay their offer to their CEO, which may or may not feel the need to speed things up, just like our fax machine.

That doesn't make sense. If they want to sell, and we want to buy, why don't they need to speed things up?

 

[Bobade]

Even if we wanted to do this we couldn't. There's no room in the squad. We already have to sell/drop 2 players as it is without buying anyone else.
If we really want to get in a number of squad players we can do that next summer if we are willing to let contracts run out, but I doubt we will for all. It depends on what target(s) we can get this window.

The post below is lengthy, linking to a thread I made to put up the facts of our squad and why we (likely) haven't confirmed other purchases yet.

Great post (the lengthy one ). Makes a lot of sense.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

if dortmund sells now, their fans will explode

Will it really?

All their fans know what their model is. Selling is just part of the cycle. Dortmund have wanted to sell him all summer.

 

[Bobade]

We don't have 120M in cash, so we counter offer with installment

In order to do that, we have to recalculate our financial and legal and accounting, which takes time, approval from finance dept etc.

So it's not like in FM where we just resubmit via pressing one button

I would expect many of the calculations to already be done at this stage though. If you are expecting a counter bid, you would likely model a few scenarios so that you were ready to hit the button when needed. I agree it would still take time for internal approval etc though.

 

[Sky1981]

I would expect many of the calculations to already be done at this stage though. If you are expecting a counter bid, you would likely model a few scenarios so that you were ready to hit the button when needed. I agree it would still take time for internal approval etc though.

We have, in real world 2-3 days lapse is very fast. Between lunch time, working hours, employees taking their sweet time real life negotiations does takes a few days, at least the clerk needs to come out with actual binding proposal

 

[Irrational.]

'Chunkz' fixes Manchester United:
His brief was he had 'unlimited budget': actually makes sensible recommendations

Who is this? In fact I don't recognise any of the 'pundits' in the video.

 

[TheNewEra]

Who is this? In fact I don't recognise any of the 'pundits' in the video.

Fans obviously, I doubt a pundit would be called Chunkz.

I think because of social media Sky Sports can just bring them through the door these days, and pay them virtually nothing to just give an opinion.

 

[Redplane]

This week is Sancho week.

 

[Irrational.]

Fans obviously, I doubt a pundit would be called Chunkz.

I think because of social media Sky Sports can just bring them through the door these days, and pay them virtually nothing to just give an opinion.

Yep, and they already come with 'followings'

Just found this too:



Anything to appear down with the kids I suppose.

 

[pacifictheme]

What I don't get about this deal is we will look so stupid if we don't get this done now.

Surely we would have pulled out ages ago to save face?

Especially since we also didn't get Ole a CB which was his other target apparently.

It just doesn't add up.

It could all be paper talk. We may have pulled out ages ago.

 

[zizou81]

Will it really?

All their fans know what their model is. Selling is just part of the cycle. Dortmund have wanted to sell him all summer.

All summer until 10th of August. There was a clear message that he was off the table after that date.

 

[georgipep]

Even if we wanted to do this we couldn't. There's no room in the squad. We already have to sell/drop 2 players as it is without buying anyone else.
If we really want to get in a number of squad players we can do that next summer if we are willing to let contracts run out, but I doubt we will for all. It depends on what target(s) we can get this window.

The post below is lengthy, linking to a thread I made to put up the facts of our squad and why we (likely) haven't confirmed other purchases yet.

Continue spreading the good word Matriac! Great post and everyone must read it (although I doubt they will) and adjust their expectations with the context.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

Girl or man, young or old and anything in between - each United fan worldwide would absolutely love this one to happen.
However, I am afraid we are settling ourselves for another huge disappointment this week by getting our hopes bumped.

I do not see Dortmund selling Sancho as long as we do not put the full amount of money on the table and Sancho makes some pressure to leave.
Dortmund are building something exciting for the future, and with some of the best Bayern players entering their final top years there is a real chance that Dortmund are going to finally challenge in 1 or 2 years time. Sancho does see his long term future in the EPL and the idea of helping our struggling club back to the top might be tempting, but he does not have to hurry and for a young top player the surroundings at Dortmund are probably better at the moment. We are a mess.

Also I really don't know why in hell we are waiting until the last week before putting the offer on the table.

 

[Pexbo]

Big day today

 

[Crustanoid]

I think we’re now ‘testing their resolve’ now. Dramatic stuff

 

[tenpoless]

Big day today

 

[elmo]

We don't have 120M in cash, so we counter offer with installment

In order to do that, we have to recalculate our financial and legal and accounting, which takes time, approval from finance dept etc.

So it's not like in FM where we just resubmit via pressing one button

A well ran club would have calculated all these even before the transfer window started and know when to move on to other targets instead of waffling around the entire summer.

 

[Gambit]

Happy Sancho Day!

 

[elmo]

Even if we wanted to do this we couldn't. There's no room in the squad. We already have to sell/drop 2 players as it is without buying anyone else.
If we really want to get in a number of squad players we can do that next summer if we are willing to let contracts run out, but I doubt we will for all. It depends on what target(s) we can get this window.

The post below is lengthy, linking to a thread I made to put up the facts of our squad and why we (likely) haven't confirmed other purchases yet.

That's bollocks.

There's so many deadwood in the squad that's taking up a spot in the PL squad registration, if we sign Sancho there's no way we won't have a spot for him just because we have the likes of Peirara/Rojo in it.

There's literally no rule saying we've to fill in every spot in the registration.

 

[tylerd]

Happy start of Sancho Week!

 

[Matriac]

That's bollocks.

There's so many deadwood in the squad that's taking up a spot in the PL squad registration, if we sign Sancho there's no way we won't have a spot for him just because we have the likes of Peirara/Rojo in it.

My reply was about those saying we shouldn't sign Sancho and instead buy 3-4 squad members for the same price.

Yes, I think we will get Sancho, but I also think part of this process has been playing chicken with other clubs for fees on our undesirable players. Why would Roma pay €20m for Smalling if they know we have to drop him or another player anyway?

Another reason why a loan deal for Pereira now, even without obligation to buy, is a good deal for us to start the dominos for our other transfers and then have to deal with the Pereira situation again next summer.

 

[Kostov]

Has it ever happened for a club to leave a big transfer like this one is supposed to be, to the last week of the transfer window?

 

[Matriac]

Has it ever happened for a club to leave a big transfer like this one is supposed to be, to the last week of the transfer window?

Yes. It happens pretty much every summer.

 

[gajender]

My reply was about those saying we shouldn't sign Sancho and instead buy 3-4 squad members for the same price.

Yes, I think we will get Sancho, but I also think part of this process has been playing chicken with other clubs for fees on our undesirable players. Why would Roma pay €20m for Smalling if they know we have to drop him or another player anyway?

Another reason why a loan deal for Pereira now, even without obligation to buy, is a good deal for us to start the dominos for our other transfers and then have to deal with the Pereira situation again next summer.

Roma not paying €20m for Smalling has got nothing to with our situation they simply don't deem him worthy of that outlay currently despite their quite public pursuit of the player.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yep, and they already come with 'followings'

Just found this too:



Anything to appear down with the kids I suppose.

I don’t know who that is. What does he do?