Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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roonster09 said:
Maybe you are correct, I just remember it reading long back.
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I am not sure myself and I don't think the clubs have ever officially made a statement about this so there will always be a bit of guesswork involved. But I think the situation was quite different from Dembele and I tend not to hold it against Sancho too much. But then again, I am a bit biased ;)

cyberman said:
keep him for two years means its two years less of developing another player for a huge profit. That's why they'll sell.
basically flipping Sancho for a huge profit and moving on to the next one.
imagine they didn't sell Dembele, would Sancho be playing as much? And on they go..
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That would be the case if Dortmunds main goal was to make money. Of course they have to look at the money they can make off of players but the main goal is still to have a competitive team. So the tactics is rather as follows: Buy promising youngster for little money (Dembele was in the ballpark of €20m plus sell on but that is still not a lot considering), develop said youngster into a proper professional footballer, have that footballer contribute to the success of the team, sell him for a profit before the contract runs out/ideally prolong contract until player does not want to anymore.

Morpheus 7 said:
He was bought for about £8m, Dortmund like it or not are a selling club. English players rarely stay abroad, that's a fact. It will come down to the player in the end, he might stay another year to develop. He's not going to be much more than £75m, the bundesliga isn't while high quality and there aren't a line of clubs to buy him like Real, Bayern, Juve or Barca. Then that leaves only a few English clubs that could afford him.
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Of course Dortmund are a selling club but that is not their only purpose as stated above. If the player has a 3 1/2 year contract they sure as hell aren't a selling club, at least not for market value. And if you seriously think that the other big teams in europe are not interested in Sancho I can't really help you. Yes it is really quiet in teams of transfer rumours but I think that is down to the fact that Dortmund simply don't want to sell. For United there was only the one mention by some guy from the Sun as well right? Concerning a price: that is just guesswork from all of us and depends largely on Sanchos performances in the rest of the season but I am quite sure that 75m pound won't do it.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Probably. It is hypothetical given the significant increase in player transfers. We definitely can’t blow all our budget on one player.

Who else do you think we could sign if we spend all that on Sancho?
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Nah, If we sign Sancho I bet we'll add more players to take our spending beyond 200 million (provided we find the right player (s))
 
Adam-Utd said:
You wouldn't dare bench a young player in spite, as let's be honest Dortmund now have the reputation of being great for young players. You're singing the best young talent because they want to play football and develop quickly.

People like Dembele/Sancho won't join you again if you start blocking potential big money moves. The club aren't rich enough to do that either.

I'm not sure Sancho will move this summer, you'll want maybe 1 more year, but if United come in with 80m+ for him, I'd be very surprised if you said no.
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I don't expect anyone to be benched for an extended period of time. There would be sanctions and harsh ones at that but of course a player in question wouldn't be left to rot in the stands indefinitely. I think that would be largely down to the players attitude though.

I am not sure how much sense it makes to cite german articles here and I have not found one in english but Watzke said "the next one to try [to force a move] will pay" (not pay in a monetary sense). He also added that the players have been informed of this so I feel like nobody could complain if it went down this way.

Of course that would hurt Dortmund's standing with regards to attracting youth players but I don't think it would be awful. Needless to say none of the parties involved would want this to happen.

I am not sure Sancho won't move this summer but I don't expect him to. Next year is a different story entirely, I don't think he will stay then. If 80m will be enough to buy him then has to be seen, we can't really tell that now.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Nah, If we sign Sancho I bet we'll add more players to take our spending beyond 200 million (provided we find the right player (s))
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Which might be a struggle since we blew 60% of the overall budget (not including sign on fees etc) on one player.
 
Spot on Swarm and his arguments. But don't waste too much time mate. To argue with some poster how really think throwing 75M on the table this summer would do it is a bit pointless. We sell Pulisic for 65M with one year left on the contract. Sancho is a cleary step above, an english player, got contract till 2022, and still they got such ideas.

Sancho will stay at least for one season, maybe two. And then United will have to deal with Real Barca and so on. The fee will be another record, BVB will absolutely drain the cash out of every club who is interessed, especially when you have in mind that City will always be informed about an offer, so they can raise it, and will get some Percents of the sum in the end.
Till then, we will enjoy Sancho playing football in this new formed BVB squad which is surprisingly working well that quick.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Which might be a struggle since we blew 60% of the overall budget (not including sign on fees etc) on one player.
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Which we won't. There are plenty of good players our there. Only clubs that are useless in the market live in their bubble where every player costs over 50 million.
 
@Swarm you are not in position where you have to sell I agree, Dortmund usually do though, that is the point. The club rarely keep there top players, if that's through contracts running down or cashing in it's all the same. Miki, kagawa, Lewandowski, Goetze, Hummels, Aubamayang, Gundogan, Dembele ect... Youse always sell, I'm sure there are more interested in Sancho but how many can afford him. He's not going to stay abroad for years, he'll be back in the premier league sooner rather than later. The transfer market is still crazy at the moment but he's not worth more than that currently. If United put up £75m for a talented English player and he wants to come, Dortmund will do what they do best. Make a massive profit and buy another young talent.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Which we won't. There are plenty of good players our there. Only clubs that are useless in the market live in their bubble where every player costs over 50 million.
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That's part of the problem, it isn't purely a budget issue in my original post.
 
Morpheus 7 said:
@Swarm you are not in position where you have to sell I agree, Dortmund usually do though, that is the point. The club rarely keep there top players, if that's through contracts running down or cashing in it's all the same. Miki, kagawa, Lewandowski, Goetze, Hummels, Aubamayang, Gundogan, Dembele ect... Youse always sell, I'm sure there are more interested in Sancho but how many can afford him. He's not going to stay abroad for years, he'll be back in the premier league sooner rather than later. The transfer market is still crazy at the moment but he's not worth more than that currently. If United put up £75m for a talented English player and he wants to come, Dortmund will do what they do best. Make a massive profit and buy another young talent.
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They simply not "always sell".
You missing the point here that they sell when they want and that is when there is only one year left on the contract, and they still got record fees for them (Hummels for example, thanks for that Buyern, the slowest player in the league and over 30M).
And for Kagawa and Götze: This was another time, BVB have grown up since then, there are no buy-out-clauses in any contracts anymore.
A special thing was with Dembele, and Swarm explained to you what the bosses of BVB said after that, and will stand to that point.
Again: Sancho extended his contract till 2022 a few month ago, try to keep that and the sell of Pulisic in mind if you really think 75M would be enough.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
That's part of the problem, it isn't purely a budget issue in my original post.
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That's something we have to improve at regardless. If we remain one dimensional in this respect whether we sign Sancho+1 or 5 others it won't make a difference. I'd go for him through. I feel we've got the muscle to add more than just him and he's the sort of talent who will prove vital over the years.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
That's something we have to improve at regardless. If we remain one dimensional in this respect whether we sign Sancho+1 or 5 others it won't make a difference. I'd go for him through. I feel we've got the muscle to add more than just him and he's the sort of talent who will prove vital over the years.
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I don't think there are any signs of that improvement regardless and certainly not from any players we have been linked with. We would probably sign one additional player but I don't think the club has the wherewithal to sign 2 or 3 more additional players that might be needed.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I don't think there are any signs of that improvement regardless and certainly not from any players we have been linked with. We would probably sign one additional player but I don't think the club has the wherewithal to sign 2 or 3 more additional players that might be needed.
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The signs won't come unless we see how a new manager oprates in the market.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The signs won't come unless we see how a new manager oprates in the market.
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Whilst I had many criticisms of Mourinho, the manager can only make recommendations. It's primarily the club's structure that operates in the market. Also I'm sure Ole and the scouting team are making their views across now. It doesn't just start in the summer.
 
This is not aimed at Sancho but what is the point of a scouting network when our go-to strategy is buying the most blatant flavour of the month/year for ridiculous fees?
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Whilst I had many criticisms of Mourinho, the manager can only make recommendations. It's primarily the club's structure that operates in the market. Also I'm sure Ole and the scouting team are making their views across now. It doesn't just start in the summer.
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The managers recommendations were terrible. What he did with them was even worse. Let's hope this manager gives a better list. From what I've seen so far he'll make more of who he signs which is what matters. I have more faith in Ole. I don't expect him to go for the likes of Perisic, Mcguire, Fred and Willian. At least I hope he doesn't.

We do have improve how we operate but our hands our somewhat tied when we target the wromg players. Mourinho or Ole don't have to have some deep scouting insight to target the following
Mane
Wiljnaldum
Robertson
VVD

People think there's this intricate machinery at work but these are simply signings to spot that another manager could but ours couldn't.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
The managers recommendations were terrible. What he did with them was even worse. Let's hope this manager gives a better list. From what I've seen so far he'll make more of who he signs which is what matters. I have more faith in Ole. I don't expect him to go for the likes of Perisic, Mcguire, Fred and Willian. At least I hope he doesn't.
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I could have seen Ole go for Maguire or Fred. Young-ish players with a point to prove which is what I think he will go for, which is much better strategy than Mourinho. Overall you'd expect most players to be targeted will cost around £50m, no one we have been linked with really will cost much less than that other than maybe Wan-Bissaka.
 
Jacob said:
This is not aimed at Sancho but what is the point of a scouting network when our go-to strategy is buying the most blatant flavour of the month/year for ridiculous fees?
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That's not our strategy is it? It's been a mix no? We have paid top money for young talent such as Martial. Then went big money for proven players like Pogba and Lukaku. Also gambled on young talent like Depay, Dalot. And spent decent money for defenders on Lindelof and Bailly. Good mix, no?

And Sancho is more like when we bought Rooney or Rio rather than flavor of the month.
 
.mica said:
Spot on Swarm and his arguments. But don't waste too much time mate. To argue with some poster how really think throwing 75M on the table this summer would do it is a bit pointless. We sell Pulisic for 65M with one year left on the contract. Sancho is a cleary step above, an english player, got contract till 2022, and still they got such ideas.

Sancho will stay at least for one season, maybe two. And then United will have to deal with Real Barca and so on. The fee will be another record, BVB will absolutely drain the cash out of every club who is interessed, especially when you have in mind that City will always be informed about an offer, so they can raise it, and will get some Percents of the sum in the end.
Till then, we will enjoy Sancho playing football in this new formed BVB squad which is surprisingly working well that quick.
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Thanks for the shoutout. I think you approach this a bit cynically and maybe feel attacked too quickly by people being interested in a Dortmund player. We all have different perspectives and are informed to a different degree about clubs and leagues. I would never assume to know enough about United or their players to make a call whether someone is likely to move or how much they might cost. I just have not seen enough of them yet. Of course I can give a rough estimate of how well I expect them to do or how I value them, but most of the people here know a lot more about it than I do. On the other hand I believe I am closer to Dortmund than some people here so I am trying to offer them my perspective and to a certain extent the perspective of the club. Then people may be able to have an opinion, that is a little bit more informed.
It is always easy to say "Dortmund are a selling club and €XXm will definitely buy the player" and I try to explain why I do not think that is the case. I think (hope) that way people are more interested in discussing the matter than they are if you just dismiss what they said.
How much Sancho will bring us in terms of money is hard to tell and we don't know anything for sure, not even if he will stay over the summer. So try to keep an open mind es well, while arguing why you think he will stay of why you think he is worth a sh*tload of cash (he is in my opinion).

Morpheus 7 said:
@Swarm you are not in position where you have to sell I agree, Dortmund usually do though, that is the point. The club rarely keep there top players, if that's through contracts running down or cashing in it's all the same. Miki, kagawa, Lewandowski, Goetze, Hummels, Aubamayang, Gundogan, Dembele ect... Youse always sell, I'm sure there are more interested in Sancho but how many can afford him. He's not going to stay abroad for years, he'll be back in the premier league sooner rather than later. The transfer market is still crazy at the moment but he's not worth more than that currently. If United put up £75m for a talented English player and he wants to come, Dortmund will do what they do best. Make a massive profit and buy another young talent.
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You are so close to getting my point :) Dortmund usually do but almost exclusively with the contracts running down (or if the player is not really needed anymore). With the players you listed it was the case for Mkhitaryan, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Hummels and Gündogan. Götze had a release clause and his departure was the reason these clauses are not used anymore in Dortmund. The reason Dembele was let go was a mixture of his antics and the fact that Barcelona did in fact pay a gigantic sum for him. Had he stayed loyal he might still not have been sold but that is just speculation on my part. Aubameyang was a different story yet again, he had extended his contract to run for another 4 years but there was a gentlemans agreement that Dortmund would let him go if a club offered a specific amount (I believe ~€70m). In the summer of 2017 no club offered such a sum so he had to stay even though he did toy with the idea of moving to Milan or China. In the end he went to Arsenal in the winter even though Dortmund did not want to let him go then and there was a bit of bad blood there as well but not as bad as it had been with Dembele.

Long story short: Yes Dortmund are a selling club but they will not come running as soon as some premier league club waves with some cash. If they can use the player and are not under any pressure because of contracts running out they will keep him unless there is a truly remarkable offer on the table. And as sad as it is, 75m is far from remarkable in this context.
 
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Swarm said:
You are so close to getting my point :) Dortmund usually do but almost exclusively with the contracts running down (or if the player is not really needed anymore). With the players you listed it was the case for Mkhitaryan, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Hummels and Gündogan. Götze had a release clause and his departure was the reason these clauses are not used anymore in Dortmund. The reason Dembele was let go was a mixture of his antics and the fact that Barcelona did in fact pay a gigantic sum for him. Had he stayed loyal he might still not have been sold but that is just speculation on my part. Aubameyang was a different story yet again, he had extended his contract to run for another 4 years but there was a gentlemans agreement that Dortmund would let him go if a club offered a specific amount (I believe ~€70m). In the summer of 2017 no club offered such a sum so he had to stay even though he did toy with the idea of moving to Milan or China. In the end he went to Arsenal in the winter even though Dortmund did not want to let him go then and there was a bit of bad blood there as well but not as bad as it had been with Dembele.

Long story short: Yes Dortmund are a selling club but they will not come running as soon as some premier league club waves with some cash. If they can use the player and are not under any pressure because of contracts running out they will keep him unless there is a truly remarkable offer on the table. And as sad as it is, 75m is far from remarkable in this context.
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Spot on. As of now, none of those cases are the case for Sancho right now. He is left 3 or 4 years on his contract, without a release clause. The only possible way Dortmund would sell this summer is if someone offers a gigantic sum (probably 150+) while Sancho is heavily pushing to get out, just like Dembele. And this seems extremely unlikely to me at this point.
 
Jacob said:
This is not aimed at Sancho but what is the point of a scouting network when our go-to strategy is buying the most blatant flavour of the month/year for ridiculous fees?
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Generally big clubs don’t gamble anymore. They’d rather let a smaller club take the risk and have a clearer idea what they’re getting, even if it costs more. Guess the fact that even a gamble costs £30n these days doesn’t help.
 
Revan said:
Depay played in a farmers league, Krkic didn't do much for Barca's first team, Quaresma never did that good for a top team.

Balotelli and Pato are fair points. The first had always question marks about his mentality, while the second was ruined from injuries.
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Please don't, you are better than that.
 
Morpheus 7 said:
Dortmund will accept £75m, they know he'll return to England in the next two years regardless. They will make a big profit and buy again, not selling to a direct rival too.
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:lol: Are you seriously saying that if we bid £75m for him this summer they’ll accept the bid?
 
How much would he actually cost ? Personally I don't care because even at say £100m he is exactly what I feel we need to give the team some balance, for some reason it just 'feels' like the right signing.
 
Kidders said:
How much would he actually cost ? Personally I don't care because even at say £100m he is exactly what I feel we need to give the team some balance, for some reason it just 'feels' like the right signing.
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It will take a British transfer record. 120 million i feel and perhaps add-ons. Dortmund do not wish to sell, thus you have to really tempt them.
 
Hugh Jass said:
It will take a British transfer record. 120 million i feel and perhaps add-ons. Dortmund do not wish to sell, thus you have to really tempt them.
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You're being very generous.
Sancho being English means he's more marketable than Dembele and he has similar numbers.
With the inflation you could be looking at something close to 150M.

Revan said:
Hey, I have yet to call Ligue 1 like that :lol:
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You'd be crazy to when so many of the Bundesliga's best players and talents came right from L1.
 
People have a warped expectations on figures, just because PSG spent £200m on Neymar and £160m on Mbappe doesn't mean that's the norm. For all other clubs outside of City, clubs have to spend using their actual own revenue and can't throw out lavish sums using oil wealth.

Coutinho and Dembele only went for high figures due to the Neymar money Barca recieved.

If you exclude the Neymar saga, the top-end transfers for a top player like Frankie De Jong costs £70-80m. Sancho's young and has high potential, so you can say he'll go at a premium, which will put him at around £100m (higher than a Pogba 2 and a half years ago).

People expecting £150m bids are crazy, very few clubs have spent that in a single summer on multiple players ever, to expect it to go on one player is ludicrous. True Dortmund don't have to sell, but there isn't a cue of clubs waiting to bid £100m+ either. Madrid have been reluctant to spend big on Hazard who's ahead of Sancho because they want to wait and get him at sub £100m. Barca, City, PSG and Liverpool don't need him. Who does that leave? Chelsea if they sell Hazard? Madrid if they don't go for Hazard? The most realistic situation is that a club bids £80m - £100m, and one of two things will happen 1) Sancho will force a move for the far higher salary he'll get in the PL vs what he'd get for Dortmund, or 2) Dortmund reject it and Sancho's content to continue progressing in the Bunedsliga.
 
He wasn’t good enough today but the rest of majority his team mate didn’t play well as well.
 
Only saw the first half and he looked bright when he was on the ball but that didn't happen enough. Is he a bit like Martial in always wanting the ball into feet rather than making runs into space?
 
Morpheus 7 said:
I'm saying there is a good chance, don't see why it's so funny.
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It’s funny because it’s absolutely ridiculous and won’t happen. You’re living in 2016 if you think he’ll go for that price.
 
marktan said:
People have a warped expectations on figures, just because PSG spent £200m on Neymar and £160m on Mbappe doesn't mean that's the norm. For all other clubs outside of City, clubs have to spend using their actual own revenue and can't throw out lavish sums using oil wealth.

Coutinho and Dembele only went for high figures due to the Neymar money Barca recieved.

If you exclude the Neymar saga, the top-end transfers for a top player like Frankie De Jong costs £70-80m. Sancho's young and has high potential, so you can say he'll go at a premium, which will put him at around £100m (higher than a Pogba 2 and a half years ago).

People expecting £150m bids are crazy, very few clubs have spent that in a single summer on multiple players ever, to expect it to go on one player is ludicrous. True Dortmund don't have to sell, but there isn't a cue of clubs waiting to bid £100m+ either. Madrid have been reluctant to spend big on Hazard who's ahead of Sancho because they want to wait and get him at sub £100m. Barca, City, PSG and Liverpool don't need him. Who does that leave? Chelsea if they sell Hazard? Madrid if they don't go for Hazard? The most realistic situation is that a club bids £80m - £100m, and one of two things will happen 1) Sancho will force a move for the far higher salary he'll get in the PL vs what he'd get for Dortmund, or 2) Dortmund reject it and Sancho's content to continue progressing in the Bunedsliga.
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Arguably the most sensible post in the entire thread. Agreed on the valuations.
 
NYAS said:
It’s funny because it’s absolutely ridiculous and won’t happen. You’re living in 2016 if you think he’ll go for that price.
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Living in 2016, he's a prospect playing in a shite league. It's far from ridiculous that we could get him for that money. He's proven absolutely nothing and the premier league is a step up.
 
He was poor tonight, he seems to have regressed as soon as Dortmund's form went to shit. Still think he's a lovely footballer but If we went for the figures that's going about then it's safe to leave it.

He should stay in Dortmund and see how he is at the end of next season to see If he's worth it or not.
 
In Rainbows said:
That's not true at all. He's been doing well in that time. It's just the team as a whole hasn't done as well without Reus.
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Also, players of his age are inconsistent. To expect otherwise is foolish.
Barring serious injury he will improve year on year and be highly in demand in a couple of years time. No one team will just scoop him up on the cheap.
 
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