Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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Le Red said:
I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert but I'm pretty sure football clubs have means other than immediate cash reserves to pay for transfer fees.
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How? I see two ways, even get a debt to cover that, or Glazers selling stocks. Or well a third one, sell the name of Old Trafford. I don't think one and three are good options, and I do not see the second happening.

Le Red said:
The Covid is losing pace fast, some countries already have (limited) spectators at football matches, England surely will follow shortly.
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At what capacity? 10%? Great, instead of losing 100m compared to last year, we will lose only 90m.

Covid is not losing pace fast. There is a much higher chance that the league will be suspended again than fans being allowed to enter the stadiums at anywhere near full capacity.

Le Red said:
I don't understand the sarcastic remarks, we're the 3rd most valuable club in the world, shortly behind Barcelona and Real Madrid, so yeah we're fecking huge.
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It doesn't matter how big we are, it matters how much money we have. And we do not have much. Actually, Real and Barca who have higher revenues than us are even skinter than us. Chelsea is the only club that has spent big this season. And the reason for that is that they got 140m for Hazard last season, and had the transfer ban, which meant that they had all that money sitting in the bank.
 
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Le Red said:
I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert but I'm pretty sure football clubs have means other than immediate cash reserves to pay for transfer fees.
The Covid is losing pace fast, some countries already have (limited) spectators at football matches, England surely will follow shortly.
I don't understand the sarcastic remarks, we're the 3rd most valuable club in the world, shortly behind Barcelona and Real Madrid, so yeah we're fecking huge.
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If only you know how financially illiterate making that statement makes you look.

I agree with you, you’re most certainly not an financial expert.:wenger:
 
Le Red said:
I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert but I'm pretty sure football clubs have means other than immediate cash reserves to pay for transfer fees.
The Covid is losing pace fast, some countries already have (limited) spectators at football matches, England surely will follow shortly.
I don't understand the sarcastic remarks, we're the 3rd most valuable club in the world, shortly behind Barcelona and Real Madrid, so yeah we're fecking huge.
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Read the financials. We’re a public company, the numbers are right there. We’re cash poor.

As an ongoing concern clubs are a terrible investment. We’re no exception. For all the talk of the Glazer’s taking money out of the club, their return on capital employed isn’t much above putting their money in a mattress. Only time they’ll see a profit is when they sell the club. Don’t mistake an asset value with free cash flow.

Our cash flow is pinched due to covid and 120m isn’t a cheque we can write. Dortmund accepts installments or Sancho stays where he is. Not a lot Ed can do about that.
 
Class of 63 said:
Pretty certain when United sign Sancho, and United will sign Sancho trust me, Dortmund will not be adding a buy-back clause in the deal, unless they envisage selling Haaland next Summer for £200+m
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Whyever would they want a buy-back clause? Unless they for some reason are overfilled in one position and have to offload a very young potential talent for less than 10m it would completely clash with their business model of buy low/free and sell high.
 
The Don said:
The fecking Glazer ***** on this forum would make you sick. How about, as a goodwill gesture, those fecking parasites put back the £90m they took out in cash dividends?
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Why would they do so? They bought the club to earn money, not to make goodwill gestures. I guess that they'll put money back only in case they think that money will increase the club's evaluation and profits.
 
USREDEVIL said:
I like our strategy for Sancho to leave it to the last week. I think we're being a bit too soft though. We should leave it to the last minute. That last minute will result in Dortmund's final and desperate act of reducing his value by millions. Hell they might even throw in Haaland at that point. Genius....puuuure genius. Wile E. Coyote style.
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Someone suggested a while back that Ed likes to make signings at the end of the window rather than when the window opens to save a couple of months salaries. Absurd as it is, I half believe it.
 
Matriac said:
Whyever would they want a buy-back clause? Unless they for some reason are overfilled in one position and have to offload a very young potential talent for less than 10m it would completely clash with their business model of buy low/free and sell high.
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I said they wouldn't be adding a buy-back clause, I was joking, it's topical!
 
Class of 63 said:
I said they wouldn't be adding a buy-back clause, I was joking, it's topical!
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Too many people not joking with their hot takes in this thread to know for sure.

Plus I've been trying to fall asleep for 3h so I'm getting cranky.
 
Amerifan said:
Read the financials. We’re a public company, the numbers are right there. We’re cash poor.

As an ongoing concern clubs are a terrible investment. We’re no exception. For all the talk of the Glazer’s taking money out of the club, their return on capital employed isn’t much above putting their money in a mattress. Only time they’ll see a profit is when they sell the club. Don’t mistake an asset value with free cash flow.

Our cash flow is pinched due to covid and 120m isn’t a cheque we can write. Dortmund accepts installments or Sancho stays where he is. Not a lot Ed can do about that.
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As everything else, it depends on the timing. If Glazers sell United, their profits would have been 3.5B+ (before taxes). Even Abramovich can sell Chelsea, or the Sheikhs can sell City for 2B+, which is more money than they have put in (at least in case of Abramovich who bought it very cheaply).

Buying a club like United nowadays would be an insane investment though. Better to buy a cheap club, invest a shitload of money in it to make it competitive, and then sell it (if that is the goal). United's value must be near as high as it can be, so it is unlikely to see it increasing too much in the future.

Which essentially leaves sugar daddies as the only options. Saudi Arabia could be an option. An alternative option might be Glazers gradually offloading their stocks, and random people buying them (same what happened for 15% of the stocks so far).
 
Jaqen H'ghar said:
Someone suggested a while back that Ed likes to make signings at the end of the window rather than when the window opens to save a couple of months salaries. Absurd as it is, I half believe it.
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United have always operated like that going back to the days when you had Season wages, and Summer wages. Why pay somebody for sitting on their backsides?

Apologies in advance to Phil Jones and Marcos Rojo for the incoming jokes.
 
Revan said:
It has nothing to do with convincing us and being a trick. We lost money in the last quarter, it is right there in the financial sheets. And we are going to lose more money this quarter. And almost surely, we are going to lose money until covid ends.

We also have only 90m pounds on cash, and had to take a debt of 150m to cover operations expenses. You can trust to believe the 'biggest club in the world' or 'United big and rich' nonsense, or the financial sheets.

For what is worth, the other big clubs are losing money too. It is why Madrid couldn't buy VDB or Barca doesn't have money to buy Depay.
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Other top clubs were forthcoming about their situation. Real informed VDB and Pogba that they were not going to sign them. Barca have made it known to Lyon that they would offload players before making a bid for Depay, despite agreeing a price with Lyon.

If our board knew they were in a tight spot, there was no need to play Billy Big Bollox, brief the media and raise fan expectations.
 
Jaqen H'ghar said:
Other top clubs were forthcoming about their situation. Real informed VDB and Pogba that they were not going to sign them. Barca have made it known to Lyon that they would offload players before making a bid for Depay, despite agreeing a price with Lyon.

If our board knew they were in a tight spot, there was no need to play Billy Big Bollox, brief the media and raise fan expectations.
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Did they do it this year?

Also, unlike Ajax and Lyon who want to sell players to get money, BVB seems to not want to sell Sancho this summer.

You are essentially complaining about why your illusion did not come true.
 
Class of 63 said:
United have always operated like that going back to the days when you had Season wages, and Summer wages. Why pay somebody for sitting on their backsides?

Apologies in advance to Phil Jones and Marcos Rojo for the incoming jokes.
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To integrate new player into his new team before season begin, and for new player adapting to his new place/town?
 
Not buying Sancho for 20m valuation difference (Dortmund wants 120m but let’s say we could only offer up to 100m euro) would be the biggest mistake our club could ever made. How many 20 years old is as exciting talented as him, and at the same time put up such high number of goals and assists? Probably none, or only Messi. He has at least a decade of top class football ahead of him, so the actually cost would be around 10m per year.
 
Matriac said:
Too many people not joking with their hot takes in this thread to know for sure.

Plus I've been trying to fall asleep for 3h so I'm getting cranky.
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Tip: The experts would say the last thing you should drink is Coffee yet I always found a strong Coffee works wonders as you convince yourself you are definitely not going to sleep now, and before you know it you're asleep. And it's worked for others as well. Try it.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Not buying Sancho for 20m valuation difference (Dortmund wants 120m but let’s say we could only offer up to 100m euro) would be the biggest mistake our club could ever made. How many 20 years old is as exciting talented as him, and at the same time put up such high number of goals and assists? Probably none, or only Messi. He has at least a decade of top class football ahead of him, so the actually cost would be around 10m per year.
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Not buying a Tesla is a pretty big mistake for me, considering that there is no car which is as good at that price. And if I keep it for 10 years, it will be just 4.5k/year. However, I just don't have 45k USD that I am willing to part with.
 
Revan said:
Not buying a Tesla is a pretty big mistake for me, considering that there is no car which is as good at that price. And if I keep it for 10 years, it will be just 4.5k/year. However, I just don't have 45k USD that I am willing to part with.
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If we are poor, we shouldn’t waste our time pursuing someone we couldn’t afford. Just move on to other cheaper options would be good for everyone.
Would you waste all the summer trying to convince car dealer to sell you new Tesla for 20k discount, when they repeatedly told you the price won’t change a penny? Just go buy a Toyota in affordable range if you really need a car, don’t waste all your time dreaming for expensive Tesla if there’s no way you could afford it.
 
Class of 63 said:
Guess so, and they are as likely to be coming in from overseas I suppose.

But when I were a lad .... :lol:
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Well, man. Sancho used to live in Manchester. So adapting to new town shouldn't be a problem.
Bruno and Maguire came in, and they just straight played like they'd been here for years. So maybe it's not that bad saving a million or so in wages.
 
RedRonaldo said:
If we are poor, we shouldn’t waste our time pursuing someone we couldn’t afford. Just move on to other cheaper options would be good for everyone.
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Maybe we haven't and the interest in Sancho was never that big. And maybe we thought that BVB would lower their evaluation. feck knows!

We are not poor, but this is a bad year for every club and our revenue is projected to shrink for 100m, and instead of having massive profits, we are going to have losses. It also didn't help that last year was quite bad in terms of paying money for previous transfers (cash reserved went from close to 300m down to 90m).

People can cry as much as they want, there is no chance in hell that United can pay 108m in a lump sum this year.
 
Revan said:
Did they do it this year?

Also, unlike Ajax and Lyon who want to sell players to get money, BVB seems to not want to sell Sancho this summer.

You are essentially complaining about why your illusion did not come true.
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Not "my" illusion. I haven't watched the player ever, and though every one says he's very good I'm not too fussed either way.

Briefs have been leaking, despite Dortmund publicly claiming otherwise, that negotiations were still ongoing and a deal possible. It could be they are playing hardball and your analysis is wrong, or you're right and the club could have publicly stated that they are not interested in the player during this window.
 
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Revan said:
Maybe we haven't and the interest in Sancho was never that big. And maybe we thought that BVB would lower their evaluation. feck knows!

We are not poor, but this is a bad year for every club and our revenue is projected to shrink for 100m, and instead of having massive profits, we are going to have losses. It also didn't help that last year was quite bad in terms of paying money for previous transfers (cash reserved went from close to 300m down to 90m).

People can cry as much as they want, there is no chance in hell that United can pay 108m in a lump sum this year.
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Then just move on to other cheaper targets! Our rivals are making more signings than us, and the season has already started! We can’t afford wasting all our time doing nothing, even some loans signings would help if we can’t afford anyone.
 
Jaqen H'ghar said:
Not "my" illusion. I haven't watched the player ever, and though every one says he's very good I'm not too fussed either way.

Briefs have been leaking, despite Dortmund publicly claiming otherwise, that negotiations were still ongoing and a deal possible. It could be they are playing hardball and your analysis is wrong, or you're right and the club could have publicly stated that they are not interested in the player during this window.
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United never denies if we are interested in a player, has been the policy for years. And when we confirm (for example Di Maria) is typically after we have a deal in place.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Then just move on to other cheaper targets! Our rivals are making more signings than us, and the season has already started! We can’t afford wasting all our time doing nothing, even some loans signings would help if we can’t afford anyone.
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Yeah, I think we should have signed a couple of other players who are affordable, the moment it became clear that Sancho has 3 years in his contract.

Problem though, we might have been willing to spend 80-90m on Sancho (spread over a couple of years), but probably are not willing to do so for 2-3 other lesser players (let's say Perisic and some centerback/left back).

Thing is, we mostly know feck all (and neither does Romano) despite pretending that we have a camera in Woody's office and know everything he is doing and trying.

We know however, that we have been poor in transfer market for years.
 
Suedesi said:
I love a top red like ayush! Such top reds eat up whatever turd Edward Woodward and his dullards are offering and moan against any other fans questioning the job club are doing. Because 'the club knows best, the manager knows best, they can do no wrong.'

So dear piyush, the season has already started, are you happy with the transfer campaign so far? Has the club provided the manager with enough resources to compete?
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Atleast being a 'top red' is far better than the likes you who constantly have things to moan about regardless of what the club does.

People like you expect the club to sign a player like Kylian Mbappe for peanuts on the first day of the window. You moan when the club targets top quality, you probably would have moaned when we got Dan James in for 15m, being the exact kind of signing you are hoping for this summer "because oh look the finances! we shouldn't be spending money blah blah blah".

So dear moaner, no, I am not happy with the business so far. I have repeatedly expressed my frustration in this thread and other threads towards the negotiators and owners of this club.

However I also know how not to switch goalposts and keep 2 things separate while making a point. I 100% back their decision to pursue Jadon Sancho with whatever money involved and not just get anyone for the sake of it. You would probably have been celebrating if we got Obertan back playing as a RW for this club. How they pursue this signing, is a totally different matter and I am not happy with the pace of the negotiations. There are still 3 weeks to go.

Also,
Suedesi said:
What in the actual feck?
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It took you a grand total of 5 days to come up with something far worse than your initial response to my post?
 
Revan said:
Yeah, I think we should have signed a couple of other players who are affordable, the moment it became clear that Sancho has 3 years in his contract.

Problem though, we might have been willing to spend 80-90m on Sancho (spread over a couple of years), but probably are not willing to do so for 2-3 other lesser players (let's say Perisic and some centerback/left back).

Thing is, we mostly know feck all (and neither does Romano) despite pretending that we have a camera in Woody's office and know everything he is doing and trying.

We know however, that we have been poor in transfer market for years.
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If that’s the new reality for us now, we should avoid signing best young worldclass talents, who would be costly and out of our budget. Maybe we should change our strategy, focus on buying ‘Bruno’ type of players from lesser league, or take risk to unearth the raw gems and buying for potential, like Dortmund does.
 
RedRonaldo said:
If that’s the new reality for us now, we should avoid signing best young worldclass talents, who would be costly and out of our budget. Maybe we should change our strategy, focus on buying ‘Bruno’ type of players from lesser league, or take risk to unearth the raw gems and buying for potential, like Dortmund does.
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Signing best and worldclass talents is not a bad strategy IMO. The biggest problem I find is that we are rarely willing to take risks, and when we do we totally feck up (like 50m for Fred, what on Earth we were thinking).

I also fail to believe that the best scouts could have come for 135m to improve in defense were Maguire and AWB. And bear in mind, last year was miles better than the seasons before.

Our recruiting strategy (or lack of) IMO has been the biggest problem since SAF left. With a smart transfer strategy and a competent coach, we should have won many titles. The money spent (contrary to popular's belief here) has been on par with all the big clubs (only less than Barca and City), but the player's quality has been nowhere near.

For what is worth, 120m euros for Sancho would have been a bit too much even in a normal year (especially if had to pay all in a lump sum). I guess it was always going to happen this way, unless BVB lowered their demands, and possibly (speculating), we thought that they will (considering that they need money).
 
Revan said:
United never denies if we are interested in a player, has been the policy for years. And when we confirm (for example Di Maria) is typically after we have a deal in place.
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That is true, but they could have leaked to the press, as Ed often does, or made an exception and made an official club statement this time seeing as how Dortmund officials and some reporters were portraying the events in a way that reflects poorly on the club. Strangely it seemed as if the leaks suggest that negotiations were ongoing and the impasse due to haggling over a few million.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Not buying Sancho for 20m valuation difference (Dortmund wants 120m but let’s say we could only offer up to 100m euro) would be the biggest mistake our club could ever made. How many 20 years old is as exciting talented as him, and at the same time put up such high number of goals and assists? Probably none, or only Messi. He has at least a decade of top class football ahead of him, so the actually cost would be around 10m per year.
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People seem to think because it's football you just throw any business principles out of the window. Everyone knows we have a lot of money, so if you keep paying over the odds for players you get taken for mugs every time. Happy to wait a few more days for Sancho and not get taken for mugs in the transfer market.
 
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