Which posts of these is wrong, aside from sometimes accidentally calling the big day prematurely (apologies for that)?
Jadon Sancho (Out)
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Which posts of these is wrong, aside from sometimes accidentally calling the big day prematurely (apologies for that)?
You’re not daft. You know what you’re doing. Even in your reply. Oozes snide and snarkiness.
You obviously want to come on here to take the piss out of us/United and bait for reactions.
A bit of banter is fine but constant wumming shouldn’t be tolerated.
I've come to talk about a player my club is about to sign. If you need a safe space maybe you should put me on ignore.
Haven't followed Dortmund much recently, are they struggling too? Can't think why they would want Sancho otherwise. At any cost.
I don’t need a safe space thanks.
Anyway hopefully the mods pick up on it.
I won’t derail the thread anymore.
I honestly hope he does well at Dortmund so we can get rid of him this summer. Good deal all round it seems, if United stop being so sensitive about this obvious feck up and just let him go.
Aren't they like 14 points off the top or something?
Let's take this video as a reference, since it's not geoblocked in Germany.
I find it weird when people go on about high lines and acres of space. When you watch this you see most of it happens at a rather low tempo and in the middle of the pitch or half spaces. Because that's what was his biggest strength: navigating tight spaces with composure, others making the runs and him trying to find them with passes or exploit little pockets with clever feints.
Surely it’s an embarrassment for the Bundesliga if a player who has looked as lacking in quality as Sancho immediately takes it apart again? It’s kind of ok when Kane makes it look conference level as we all know he’s world class but Sancho has looked completely out of his depth in a top league.
Strange how big clubs aren't falling over each other trying to sign this generational talent, despite surely being available for a relatively low price.
That is correct, Dortmund have found it much harder to compete in Germany than they did in the CL and that's why they are very eager to add some players right now. If things were going well and top four seemed safe I would expect the club to prefer game time for their youngsters rather than loaning Sancho without an option. But with a buy option, who knows? Everyone remembers his talent, so if he's available for cheap, there is going to be temptation.
Kagawa's and Sahin's returns were solid business for example - even if they didn't reach their former heights. Because the condititions were extremely cheap.
We get one of those for free since Mane was terrible.
Is there any expectation around Sancho being able to help turn it around? I wouldn't be in a rush to add a character like Sancho's to a team/squad that is struggling. Did your manager have any dealings with the player previously, or did he come into the club after Sancho left?
Probably not? But they like him, he was good for them, they'll baby sit him and let him stay up late and play Playstation without any consequences. His value will increase and we'll send him to Chelsea or someone else desperate enough to take him. Everyone's happy.
Yea, hope he can put in some performances for them while away. If we could get any sort of fee for him at this point I would be happy.
Terzic was both assistant and head coach while Sancho was at Dortmund, he knows him very well. I can't make a claim what the "offical" expectations among the fans or club are. But given his ability on the ball he should at least make for an effective impact sub. Since Dortmund are only loaning him for a half a year and at a massive discount there's no big commitment from them towards Sancho. They don't have to fix him for good, he doesn't have to be guaranteed starter, he's not going to be some influental designated squad leader. If it works out great and if it doesn't they can just bin him.
I'd agree about the character of Sancho. You expect Dortmund want the player he used to be, not the player he is now. A lots happened mentally so it's a gamble but I guess it's a good risk as it's a loan. Also good for Utd as if he does manage to find himself there (and hopefuly he does for his sake), we have a chance at a sale in the summer and open up some wages for a loan of our own. Happy for this one to happen, sooner the better.
I didn't realise he was going there with any expectation of being an impact sub. Feels less likely he will be able to show any sort of value that will get him sold then if that's the case. Could be a waste of time for everyone given his track record then.
I'm not saying he's a designated impact sub, since this hasn't even been finalized yet there have been zero comments about what expectations may be. But since he's joining mid season, hasn't played in a while and is going to miss most, if not all, of the training camp, he's most likely going to be a sub at first that will have to earn his minutes. Especially since Dortmund's issues in attack are more qualitative than quantitative.
It's not the high lines for me it's the quality of defending. Some of the challenges in that video would rarely happen in the PL. Most PL defenders would most like wait for a double team before engaging with Sancho.
Well hopefully he can show some sort of value then, but with what you've outlined along with Sancho's attitude issues I don't have much confidence in him proving much.
Yeah, right in the PL everyone is always defended by 15 players at once. If you don't pressure a player, he will have time to pick his pass, if you double up on him that means the second player will have to vacate space for someone else to exploit. So there is no such thing as "always double team", unless your attack is a dysfunctional mess that can't move the ball and its players quickly enough to leverage imbalances.
Go play in a league where Wout Weghorst was second the only Lewandowski for goals scored during his time in Germany, you fecking waster.
The video I linked is just his goals and assists in 21/22 in the Bundesliga.
I agree with you on Sancho's strengths. I'm just pointing that the majority of his goals that year in the league came with with very defenders around him. Which meant his goals stats were much higher than what he'd reasonably expect to get at United, where probably 80% of the teams we play against play low blocks (and which Sancho has struggled against here). Of course Ole and ETH in their infinite wisdom just see stats and think that's a player with spending £80m on. Mount, Antony, Sancho.. it never ends
Pointless to even engage with you. If you are confused, reread what I posted and reread your unhinged response.
feck me people like to argue for the sake of arguing! This is such a fecking nonsense 
We're trying to make the best out of a bad situation... Only, it didn't need to get this bad!
We're trying to make the best out of a bad situation... Only, it didn't need to get this bad!
Meet our new player, Jason Snacho.
I mean, there are more goals on average in the Bundesliga (which I'd say is down to the high lines) so it is only natural that scoring statistics take a small hit when a player moves from the Bundesliga to the EPL. But I don't think the standard of defending is as much lower as you suggest. I'd say this is rather a highlights bias. When you watch full matches, you see good defending all the time but goals usually happen when the defending hasn't been ideal so watching highlight compilations will naturally feature a higher density of mistakes. As said earlier, when you watch e. g. Salah's EPL goal compilation, you get the impression he has acres of space all the time as well.
It's a bit obvious in hindsight that it wouldn't work out with doing risky dribbles in central midfield in the prem. Great skills there albeit lesser players and in pretty dangerous areas. Of course you can't let him take chances like that in the middle of the field here like you can in the german league.
Here the succesfull teams are mostly the teams that plays it safe/avoid dangerous turnovers in defence/midfield and only take chances in the last 3rd when in advanced/good positions for that. The pressure from teams is just 20-30% more intense and co-ordinated too. That leaves him in an odd position on when/where to use his strengths and he never really found a way. He doesn't strike me as a hard working player neither, at least from his time here where he'd be anonymous 90% of the time.
The number of nutmegs in that video is incredible. And yet you rarely see any nutmeg in EPL these days. One thing is poor defending but other thing is physicality in EPL is on different level, there's no chance Sancho will go past a defender so easily. This is where Sancho struggles.
I see a lot of similarities to Pogba actually, he also used to have silky footwork that was effective before he re-joined United.
So after all the praise about EPL defenses in this thread, I decided I wanted to witness this with my own two eyes and went with this video:
And I have to say, it was eye-opening. I think my favorite moments were 1:25, 3:15, 11:00 and 13:00 but in general, I understand now why you have no use for Sancho. I mean, why even bother with linkup play and dribblings between the lines when it is so easy to play long balls over the last line as in this video? There's almost zero pressure in midfield and the defenders are downright terrible at covering runs. Look at 0:55, 1:25, 5:20, 6:30, 7:10 and 10:05, that looks like FIFA on amateur difficulty
And I have to say, it was eye-opening. I think my favorite moments were 1:25, 3:15, 11:00 and 13:00 but in general, I understand now why you have no use for Sancho. I mean, why even bother with linkup play and dribblings between the lines when it is so easy to play long balls over the last line as in this video? There's almost zero pressure in midfield and the defenders are downright terrible at covering runs. Look at 0:55, 1:25, 5:20, 6:30, 7:10 and 10:05, that looks like FIFA on amateur difficulty
The perception of defenders standard among an average PL fan is far, far better than prime Serie A in the 90s (with its comical defense compared to current PL) and by far and away the best league ever, defensively.
I watch the Bundesliga and believe it’s an exciting league that receives over-the-top criticism for the lack of defending. However, since so many teams seem to press defenders regularly find themselves in 1v1 situations where there are forced to make last risky challenges. Again this isn’t a knock of the quality of the league but an observation of the style of play.
With regards to Salah, I haven’t seen that video but I would guess most of those goals where he finds himself with acres of space are on counter attacks. Most Liverpool matches I‘ve watched the opposing team is defending deep and if they are pressing high he is doubled up as soon as recieves a pass
Most PL managers would either have the defenders kick the snot out of Sancho or just concede as much possession as possible if they think their defenders are out matched. The physicality is definitely a factor but the tactics/braindead defending doesn’t help either
Sadly never reached the heights we expected, wish him well regardless.
Exactly! But it doesn't look like it in the highlight videos since the highlight videos feature goals first and foremost and goals tend to occur when the defending team made a mistake. So when you watch a goal compilation of a player's season, chances are that you get the impression that defenses are all over the place, regardless of which league we're talking about. I mean, take a look at the Rashford video I posted. Some of the defending was comically bad - the type of stuff people in here say doesn't happen in the EPL.
From a quick check, it seems the Bundesliga goals per game is roughly 10-20% higher. While that is significant it is nowhere near explaining drops in performances like we've witnessed with Sancho and Havertz, e. g.
about 11.15 I think.
It rarely happens but when it does it's interesting to see how top PL attackers play in the BL. Kane obviously seamlessly made that transition, but Mane before him was really not setting the world on fire but instead kind of became a meme for the amount of offside goals he scored. He simply wasn't used to defenders moving so high up the pitch that he was offside in the BL in positions where he was easily onside in the PL.
I’ve seen Mane mentioned a few times and whilst I understand the comparison I also think it’s fair to acknowledge he was at a different point in his career than Kane in terms of peak/decline etc.
Mane looks past it in the Saudi Pro League highlights I've watched. Probably got to do with all the hard running he's had to do from a young age.
Yes, he clearly already was declining when he moved to Bayern. But that offside issue I mentioned wasn't due to physical decline, it was pretty obvious that he just wasn't used to the typical defending when he arrived.
Kane in comparison was used to drop deep all the time and had the awareness where (not) to move, for him it was easier to adapt.
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