Red00012
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- Jan 18, 2018
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I hope the loan goes well so we can ship him out in the summer
Yes, to manage the players. Not to be bent over by them.
He gave Sancho a last ditch saloon to get himself right by doing something literally no manager has done for their star player. £300k wages, and he sent him on a camp to get his mentality straight and train on himself during our most congested period, whilst protecting him in the media. He managed him and protected him to no end before enough was enough. That was good management, he exhausted all options and even tried to meet him beyond half way before it got to this.
You seem to think 'manage the player' is the same as 'allow the player to bend you over the table'. Players should be managed for as long as they aren't a virus to the dressing room and its beyond debate that Sancho is a virus. If you cant cure the virus, you have deal with a virus by isolating it completely from the others. The money wasted is a Murtough issue, he's a lemon for buying him in the first place - this has nothing to do with Ten Hag.
The performances of the team is down to a range of factors, not down to Sancho being or not being exiled.That's hyperbole. Sancho is a very expensive footballer who is significantly underpeforming and acting immaturely. Exile does nothing positive to the squad, and we have not seen any positive reaction to it. Performances on the pitch are still poor, work-rate remains an issue and a lack of standards is still apparent. It's a pointless punishment that does nothing positive for the player, the squad or the club. There's a lot you can do between letting a player get away with everything and going to the extreme of exiling him completely, and apparently refusing to interact with him.
Ten Hag did all that. Why do you stop at keeping him out the match squad? He is literally a bad influence on other players, why on earth would you not cut him?Of course he doesn't play when he's being unprofessional or not meeting the standards, but manage the situation. Talk with him, fine public dissent, keep him out of the match squad until things resolve and work on a deal to get him out behind the scenes. Don't just exile him and not bother dealing with him at all. It doesn't help anyone and makes the player harder to get rid off - it's counter-productive.
The Sancho situation was caused by Ed woodwork. Over paying a player. No duel diligence to find out he is lazy in training. Eth did as best as he could giver the hand he was played. I though he has handled the situation brilliantly.We also need to look at the context and those are totally different situation to be honest. For example, Fergie would never let his deteriorating relationship with any player to jeopardise the strength of his squad which may affects performance/result on pitch. He would also swiftly response to the whole situation by either solving the issue out with players in private or just offloading the player quickly while securing the club with good financial return.
This is what I called good management.
Then we look at ETH vs Sancho situation. By demanding apology in public, then freezing Sancho out and let him hanging out dry totally, not only ETH forced himself to start with the biggest clown in the league (Antony) every games while our results are getting worse and worse, he is also in a way pushing down the value of our expensive investment, and making us falling under extremely tough situation in future transfer windows with all these FFP limitations.
And this what I called a disaster in management.
The vast majority of bust-ups aren't done in public, this one was, therefore a public apology is appropriateThe vast majority of bust ups between players and managers are handled internally where they communicate "we've spoken and worked things out between us" to the press. There is a absolutely no need for an "apology" to be made into a public announcement. Especially not when the player is 22 and all he's done wrong is post a stupid social media post.
Ten Hag is using humiliation to impose his authority - he did it with Maguire, Ronaldo and now Sancho. It's nonsense.
The performances of the team is down to a range of factors, not down to Sancho being or not being exiled.
Nothing I've said is hyperbole if you actually follow his career and find how chronically unprofessional he is. This idea that cutting out his negative influence does nothing on the squad is bullshit. Keeping him around sends a message that the manager's arm can be twisted, and I'm thoroughly pleased that this has been put to an end after the circus that Ole allowed.
Ten Hag did all that. Why do you stop at keeping him out the match squad? He is literally a bad influence on other players, why on earth would you not cut him?
The situation did not resolve. Sancho did not do what was needed. The dimwit even kept his post up for days and days before finally having a brain cell to take it down, so its quite clear that the situation was unmanageable. It's nuts how you think Sancho has half a leg to stand on.
Probably contractual reasons, we basically did the bare minimum that we are obligated to do.Why stop at exile? Why not ban him from the grounds entirely? Is it better that he interacts with youth players?
I don't think Sancho has a leg to stand on. I think he's being stupid and acting immaturely, and I expect it will eventually end up with him leaving the club - either contract termination or sale, and I don't think he can have any complaints. I don't think he's done anyhting to deserve to play, but I don't really think he's been handled properly either. I think Ten Hag should be doing better as a manager and managing this particular situation better. It's not an either or.
It amazes me people want players with his sort of attitude still at the club. Nearly as bad as someone a few weeks ago saying they'd have Di Maria back. It's as if we never learn...
You’ll both miss the irony here.New coach or not I hope we are done with him. And if not, hope the fans give him pelters.
"Salvage what you can" and inability to make hard decisions (which may even harm you short term) is why United has solid reputation of suckers and morons all around the footballing world and why everybody is taking us for a rideIt's a counter intuitive overly emotional approach though. At present Sancho is providing us with zero value. It's a slightly different case if he's simply bottom of the pecking order but if all our first team forwards get injuries we're not calling on Sancho to step up. It's happened to other clubs too, you have to take the hit and salvage what you can. The important thing is the management of contracts for renewals and new arrivals. I don't think you can get mad at any player not wanting to take a pay cut.
You’ll both miss the irony here.
As I said, readdress in the Summer under fresh management.
"Salvage what you can" and inability to make hard decisions (which may even harm you short term) is why United has solid reputation of suckers and morons all around the footballing world and why everybody is taking us for a ride
So, you are saying "at least they pay half of this salary for 6months" and we save couple millions. But what happens after 6 months? Sancho comes back and continues to live off of us for the next 3-4 years. You have to show you have teeth, and can bite as well, if you want anybody to respect you in real life
I'm not sure how anyone thinks we could possibly get a much better deal than this to be honest.
This is a player who we are literally paying not to play. We're in a terrible negotiating position here. The other club knows that our alternative is to just pay him his massive wages to basically do nothing. Why would they not play hardball with us?
United paid £10m loan fee for Amrabat and all of his wages, why can’t we negotiate £5m 6 month loan fee and half his wages?
I bet the first thing he packs is a UK-EU adapter for his PS5.
The cnut is a more expensive Lingard.
Loads, he’s been out partying for the most part.Has there been any pics of him since the exile? The man could be walking around looking like Rikishi.
That would depend on the management structures and potentially new manager's view of the situation. You sell him if there's a viable option, you send him back out on loan or you reintegrate him back into the squad (if that's the wish of the management structure and potentially new manager). Obviously it's form dependent, if his form is good at Dortmund then we'll have a better negotiating position. If he's terrible then it's more of an issue but I don't think we're at a stage whereby we should be making such a hard stance for him to take a pay cut or rot in the reserves."Salvage what you can" and inability to make hard decisions (which may even harm you short term) is why United has solid reputation of suckers and morons all around the footballing world and why everybody is taking us for a ride
So, you are saying "at least they pay half of this salary for 6months" and we save couple millions. But what happens after 6 months? Sancho comes back and continues to live off of us for the next 3-4 years. You have to show you have teeth, and can bite as well, if you want anybody to respect you in real life
Expect he will do ok on this loan but if I was a buying club in the summer I wouldn’t touch him with someone else’s barge pole.Didn't he have the same behavioural issues at Dortmund? Part of me suspects he'll bomb back there too, and then go down a Delle Alli downward trajectory where he'll probably end up at Turkey or the MLS while still in his mid 20s.
when was the last time one of our established first team players went out on loan and did well?I hope the loan goes well so we can ship him out in the summer
Sanchez at Inter?when was the last time one of our established first team players went out on loan and did well?
A lot of big clubs have terminated their problematic expensive stars in situations like this, "eating" the loss and preserving reputation of competenceEvery club would make the deal in the situation you're in. The issue is that you've maneuvered yourself into this situation.
Nani at Sportingwhen was the last time one of our established first team players went out on loan and did well?
A lot of big clubs have terminated their problematic expensive stars in situations like this, "eating" the loss and preserving reputation of competence
You are spot on - United have done this to ourselves. For many years decisions were driven based on money ("we cant terminate X it is expensive") and ironically United are also horrible about money. This is the club that will cry about money and not get anybody better than Weghorst, and a summer after that waste millions on terribly overpaying for Mount, Hojlund and agreeing to premature replacement of De Gea with Onana.
Clueless, spineless, joke or a club that everybody is getting advantage of
A lot of big clubs have terminated their problematic expensive stars in situations like this, "eating" the loss and preserving reputation of competence
Clueless, spineless, joke or a club that everybody is getting advantage of
Which ones? I'm curious to know which club has taken a £36m hit on writing off a players amortisation in 1 window + £40m worth of salary that we owe him for the next 2.5 years.
Just curious to know - so list the all the clubs in this scenario that have done this. Go.
Arsenal did terminate contracts on couple players who are on high salary, but I am sure the club/director tried their best to loan them out or sell them if they can.Which ones? I'm curious to know which club has taken a £36m hit on writing off a players amortisation in 1 window + £40m worth of salary that we owe him for the next 2.5 years.
Just curious to know - so list the all the clubs in this scenario that have done this. Go.
Arsenal, City, Liverpool have all gotten rid of big players Arteta, Pep, or Klopp didnt want without paying half of salary of said players while that player was playing elsewhere. Do you understand how pathetic and embarassing that is? I think it is rock bottom.Which ones? I'm curious to know which club has taken a £36m hit on writing off a players amortisation in 1 window + £40m worth of salary that we owe him for the next 2.5 years.
Just curious to know - so list the all the clubs in this scenario that have done this. Go.