Jadon Sancho (Out)

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Yes, to manage the players. Not to be bent over by them.

He gave Sancho a last ditch saloon to get himself right by doing something literally no manager has done for their star player. £300k wages, and he sent him on a camp to get his mentality straight and train on himself during our most congested period, whilst protecting him in the media. He managed him and protected him to no end before enough was enough. That was good management, he exhausted all options and even tried to meet him beyond half way before it got to this.

You seem to think 'manage the player' is the same as 'allow the player to bend you over the table'. Players should be managed for as long as they aren't a virus to the dressing room and its beyond debate that Sancho is a virus. If you cant cure the virus, you have deal with a virus by isolating it completely from the others. The money wasted is a Murtough issue, he's a lemon for buying him in the first place - this has nothing to do with Ten Hag.

That's hyperbole. Sancho is a very expensive footballer who is significantly underpeforming and acting immaturely, he's not a virus. Exile does nothing positive to the squad, and we have not seen any positive reaction to it. Performances on the pitch are still poor, work-rate remains an issue and a lack of standards is still apparent. It's a pointless punishment that does nothing positive for the player, the squad or the club. There's a lot you can do between letting a player get away with everything and going to the extreme of exiling him completely, and apparently refusing to interact with him.

Of course he doesn't play when he's being unprofessional or not meeting the standards, but manage the situation. Talk with him, fine public dissent, keep him out of the match squad until things resolve and work on a deal to get him out behind the scenes. Don't just exile him and not bother dealing with him at all. It doesn't help anyone and makes the player harder to get rid off - it's counter-productive.
 
That's hyperbole. Sancho is a very expensive footballer who is significantly underpeforming and acting immaturely. Exile does nothing positive to the squad, and we have not seen any positive reaction to it. Performances on the pitch are still poor, work-rate remains an issue and a lack of standards is still apparent. It's a pointless punishment that does nothing positive for the player, the squad or the club. There's a lot you can do between letting a player get away with everything and going to the extreme of exiling him completely, and apparently refusing to interact with him.
The performances of the team is down to a range of factors, not down to Sancho being or not being exiled.
Nothing I've said is hyperbole if you actually follow his career and find how chronically unprofessional he is. This idea that cutting out his negative influence does nothing on the squad is bullshit. Keeping him around sends a message that the manager's arm can be twisted, and I'm thoroughly pleased that this has been put to an end after the circus that Ole allowed.
Of course he doesn't play when he's being unprofessional or not meeting the standards, but manage the situation. Talk with him, fine public dissent, keep him out of the match squad until things resolve and work on a deal to get him out behind the scenes. Don't just exile him and not bother dealing with him at all. It doesn't help anyone and makes the player harder to get rid off - it's counter-productive.
Ten Hag did all that. Why do you stop at keeping him out the match squad? He is literally a bad influence on other players, why on earth would you not cut him?

The situation did not resolve. Sancho did not do what was needed. The dimwit even kept his post up for days and days before finally having a brain cell to take it down, so its quite clear that the situation was unmanageable. It's nuts how you think Sancho has half a leg to stand on.
 
We also need to look at the context and those are totally different situation to be honest. For example, Fergie would never let his deteriorating relationship with any player to jeopardise the strength of his squad which may affects performance/result on pitch. He would also swiftly response to the whole situation by either solving the issue out with players in private or just offloading the player quickly while securing the club with good financial return.

This is what I called good management.

Then we look at ETH vs Sancho situation. By demanding apology in public, then freezing Sancho out and let him hanging out dry totally, not only ETH forced himself to start with the biggest clown in the league (Antony) every games while our results are getting worse and worse, he is also in a way pushing down the value of our expensive investment, and making us falling under extremely tough situation in future transfer windows with all these FFP limitations.

And this what I called a disaster in management.
The Sancho situation was caused by Ed woodwork. Over paying a player. No duel diligence to find out he is lazy in training. Eth did as best as he could giver the hand he was played. I though he has handled the situation brilliantly.

I feel given how he binned Ronald, which also was brillant, that no matter what eth does you will be against him.

Fact is eth came into a mess. And imo has done a fantastic job dealing with it. I'm excited to see what happens when he gets it all sorted.

I don't know if you remember how SAF delt with pogba the first time. But he was pretty public about how unhappy he was with he agent and pogba. When you have a certain type of player you need to act accordingly. So I don't agree with you analysis.
 
The vast majority of bust ups between players and managers are handled internally where they communicate "we've spoken and worked things out between us" to the press. There is a absolutely no need for an "apology" to be made into a public announcement. Especially not when the player is 22 and all he's done wrong is post a stupid social media post.

Ten Hag is using humiliation to impose his authority - he did it with Maguire, Ronaldo and now Sancho. It's nonsense.
The vast majority of bust-ups aren't done in public, this one was, therefore a public apology is appropriate
 
The performances of the team is down to a range of factors, not down to Sancho being or not being exiled.
Nothing I've said is hyperbole if you actually follow his career and find how chronically unprofessional he is. This idea that cutting out his negative influence does nothing on the squad is bullshit. Keeping him around sends a message that the manager's arm can be twisted, and I'm thoroughly pleased that this has been put to an end after the circus that Ole allowed.

Ten Hag did all that. Why do you stop at keeping him out the match squad? He is literally a bad influence on other players, why on earth would you not cut him?

The situation did not resolve. Sancho did not do what was needed. The dimwit even kept his post up for days and days before finally having a brain cell to take it down, so its quite clear that the situation was unmanageable. It's nuts how you think Sancho has half a leg to stand on.

Why stop at exile? Why not ban him from the grounds entirely? Is it better that he interacts with youth players?

I don't think Sancho has a leg to stand on. I think he's being stupid and acting immaturely, and I expect it will eventually end up with him leaving the club - either contract termination or sale, and I don't think he can have any complaints. I don't think he's done anyhting to deserve to play, but I don't really think he's been handled properly either. I think Ten Hag should be doing better as a manager and managing this particular situation better. It's not an either or.
 
Think this is a pretty good outcome if he rediscovers form and we can recoup even half of what we paid for him. Sancho could still have a very good career in probably any of the other top leagues for a CL team outside of the PL.

There's a lot of different takes on here, but a show of hands for the people who have had a disagreement with their boss and just stopped going to work because of it.
 
Why stop at exile? Why not ban him from the grounds entirely? Is it better that he interacts with youth players?

I don't think Sancho has a leg to stand on. I think he's being stupid and acting immaturely, and I expect it will eventually end up with him leaving the club - either contract termination or sale, and I don't think he can have any complaints. I don't think he's done anyhting to deserve to play, but I don't really think he's been handled properly either. I think Ten Hag should be doing better as a manager and managing this particular situation better. It's not an either or.
Probably contractual reasons, we basically did the bare minimum that we are obligated to do.

Think ten hag has reached his limits with Sancho which is evidently higher than the limits of other managers.
 
It amazes me people want players with his sort of attitude still at the club. Nearly as bad as someone a few weeks ago saying they'd have Di Maria back. It's as if we never learn...
New coach or not I hope we are done with him. And if not, hope the fans give him pelters.
You’ll both miss the irony here.

As I said, readdress in the Summer under fresh management.
 
It's a counter intuitive overly emotional approach though. At present Sancho is providing us with zero value. It's a slightly different case if he's simply bottom of the pecking order but if all our first team forwards get injuries we're not calling on Sancho to step up. It's happened to other clubs too, you have to take the hit and salvage what you can. The important thing is the management of contracts for renewals and new arrivals. I don't think you can get mad at any player not wanting to take a pay cut.
"Salvage what you can" and inability to make hard decisions (which may even harm you short term) is why United has solid reputation of suckers and morons all around the footballing world and why everybody is taking us for a ride

So, you are saying "at least they pay half of this salary for 6months" and we save couple millions. But what happens after 6 months? Sancho comes back and continues to live off of us for the next 3-4 years. You have to show you have teeth, and can bite as well, if you want anybody to respect you in real life
 
You’ll both miss the irony here.

As I said, readdress in the Summer under fresh management.

Different people having different opinions?

New manager or not he should be gone. If that means a loan to try and retain some value then fair enough, but he shouldn't play for us again.
 
"Salvage what you can" and inability to make hard decisions (which may even harm you short term) is why United has solid reputation of suckers and morons all around the footballing world and why everybody is taking us for a ride

So, you are saying "at least they pay half of this salary for 6months" and we save couple millions. But what happens after 6 months? Sancho comes back and continues to live off of us for the next 3-4 years. You have to show you have teeth, and can bite as well, if you want anybody to respect you in real life

Every club would make the deal in the situation you're in. The issue is that you've maneuvered yourself into this situation.
 
I'm not sure how anyone thinks we could possibly get a much better deal than this to be honest.

This is a player who we are literally paying not to play. We're in a terrible negotiating position here. The other club knows that our alternative is to just pay him his massive wages to basically do nothing. Why would they not play hardball with us?

United paid £10m loan fee for Amrabat and all of his wages, why can’t we negotiate £5m 6 month loan fee and half his wages?
 
United paid £10m loan fee for Amrabat and all of his wages, why can’t we negotiate £5m 6 month loan fee and half his wages?

Because everyone knows that if we don't ship him out on loan he will just spend his days playing fifa and training alone? There's no incentive for them to pay us.
 
Can't believe there are people still sticking up for this guy.

Whether or not ETH stays or goes, he should never play for the club again.
 
Don't think he'll rediscover his best form at Dortmund as he already got his dream contract from us.
Even if he did, I don't think a top club will touch him so we'll inevitably, end up paying part of his wages which I'm dead against.
 
Will be interesting to see where he plays for Dortmund (after he gets fit) and to see if he can rediscover his past German form.

Not that it would prove anything if he does, and I'd still be reluctant for him to ever return, but it's a good enough reason to watch Dortmund in the CL.
 
"Salvage what you can" and inability to make hard decisions (which may even harm you short term) is why United has solid reputation of suckers and morons all around the footballing world and why everybody is taking us for a ride

So, you are saying "at least they pay half of this salary for 6months" and we save couple millions. But what happens after 6 months? Sancho comes back and continues to live off of us for the next 3-4 years. You have to show you have teeth, and can bite as well, if you want anybody to respect you in real life
That would depend on the management structures and potentially new manager's view of the situation. You sell him if there's a viable option, you send him back out on loan or you reintegrate him back into the squad (if that's the wish of the management structure and potentially new manager). Obviously it's form dependent, if his form is good at Dortmund then we'll have a better negotiating position. If he's terrible then it's more of an issue but I don't think we're at a stage whereby we should be making such a hard stance for him to take a pay cut or rot in the reserves.
 
I think the only way we'd see Sancho fulfil any potential was if wages were based largely on performance. But that's not the case, so he will just down tools again or get 'injured'. Ten Hag will be gone come summer, hopefully Sancho doesn't try and stay to 'fight' for his place.
 
Didn't he have the same behavioural issues at Dortmund? Part of me suspects he'll bomb back there too, and then go down a Delle Alli downward trajectory where he'll probably end up at Turkey or the MLS while still in his mid 20s.
 
Didn't he have the same behavioural issues at Dortmund? Part of me suspects he'll bomb back there too, and then go down a Delle Alli downward trajectory where he'll probably end up at Turkey or the MLS while still in his mid 20s.
Expect he will do ok on this loan but if I was a buying club in the summer I wouldn’t touch him with someone else’s barge pole.
 
Every club would make the deal in the situation you're in. The issue is that you've maneuvered yourself into this situation.
A lot of big clubs have terminated their problematic expensive stars in situations like this, "eating" the loss and preserving reputation of competence

You are spot on - United have done this to ourselves. For many years decisions were driven based on money ("we cant terminate X it is expensive") and ironically United are also horrible about money. This is the club that will cry about money and not get anybody better than Weghorst, and a summer after that waste millions on terribly overpaying for Mount, Hojlund and agreeing to premature replacement of De Gea with Onana.

Clueless, spineless, joke or a club that everybody is getting advantage of
 
A lot of big clubs have terminated their problematic expensive stars in situations like this, "eating" the loss and preserving reputation of competence

You are spot on - United have done this to ourselves. For many years decisions were driven based on money ("we cant terminate X it is expensive") and ironically United are also horrible about money. This is the club that will cry about money and not get anybody better than Weghorst, and a summer after that waste millions on terribly overpaying for Mount, Hojlund and agreeing to premature replacement of De Gea with Onana.

Clueless, spineless, joke or a club that everybody is getting advantage of

Tag line checks out
 
A lot of big clubs have terminated their problematic expensive stars in situations like this, "eating" the loss and preserving reputation of competence



Clueless, spineless, joke or a club that everybody is getting advantage of

Which ones? I'm curious to know which club has taken a £36m hit on writing off a players amortisation in 1 window + £40m worth of salary that we owe him for the next 2.5 years.

Just curious to know - so list the all the clubs in this scenario that have done this. Go.
 
Which ones? I'm curious to know which club has taken a £36m hit on writing off a players amortisation in 1 window + £40m worth of salary that we owe him for the next 2.5 years.

Just curious to know - so list the all the clubs in this scenario that have done this. Go.

I don't know how Real Madrid organized it but Jovic would be the best candidate for your question.
 
Which ones? I'm curious to know which club has taken a £36m hit on writing off a players amortisation in 1 window + £40m worth of salary that we owe him for the next 2.5 years.

Just curious to know - so list the all the clubs in this scenario that have done this. Go.
Arsenal did terminate contracts on couple players who are on high salary, but I am sure the club/director tried their best to loan them out or sell them if they can.

For Sancho it is better to loan him out if there are clubs interested in his service. Not every transfer is a success.
 
The Bundesliga naturally has more space for attackers and Dortmund are an attacking team, which is why Sancho massively inflated his stats to begin with. Hopefully he does it again and we can get around £20m for him from somewhere, which would be a phenomenal return. He'll never ever make it at United due to his lack of acceleration (same with Antony), something I called out before we signed both of them. Between Sancho, VDB and Antony we should've cut our losses early and looked to recoup about £70m between them, instead we'll probably get about £30m total when they do move on.
 
I think that he has been very disappointing performance-wise so it won't be a big miss. At the same time, I think that this was handled extremely badly by the club, EtH and him. It shouldn't have ever become this big of a problem, and with Greenwood out and Antony being awful, he should have contributed until we would have found some permanent solution (maybe Garnacho already is).
 
He was the transfer I wanted most for years even at 100 million during the first summer. Such a shame for things to go like this after everything. He seemed to be really happy to come here and take the next step but he never got out of second gear here. Also as I said at the time, he’s better off the left which is where all of his goals for us have come from
 
Which ones? I'm curious to know which club has taken a £36m hit on writing off a players amortisation in 1 window + £40m worth of salary that we owe him for the next 2.5 years.

Just curious to know - so list the all the clubs in this scenario that have done this. Go.
Arsenal, City, Liverpool have all gotten rid of big players Arteta, Pep, or Klopp didnt want without paying half of salary of said players while that player was playing elsewhere. Do you understand how pathetic and embarassing that is? I think it is rock bottom.

Now, please tell me a single example of any big club paying half of salary of their player while that fecker was playing for another club. I dont know a single example of such bullshit

I will wait...
 
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such a fecking waste of talent to not have his head sorted properly....much like Ravel Morrison
 
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