Just watched the extended highlights too to see if United missed out on something. But it's not like he's doing something magical any other normal winger at a big club couldn't do. Good riddance from United imo. I'd much rather have Madueke from Chelsea.
Jadon Sancho - Chelsea (loan) watch
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We're probably looking for different things in a winger, then. Thought his ball progression and pressing resistency were excellent.
It was decent I thought too, but watching Brighton all game it was just one big hole of a defence. We always knew Sancho thrives when given space and on counters. This game was quite fitting for those qualities, but I honestly didn't see much that another winger, even Antony wouldn't be able to do.
We like to buy 1-2 players who are good at linkup short passing plays, and expect them to do this in a vacuum. you need many players who can do this to get value out of it.
Bingo. That's why myself and others said that, under Solskjaer, it would have made more sense to sign Grealish than Sancho. JG has more individual qualities, more of what we try to utilise. I had hoped that ETH would be the manager other posters made him out to be, who tried to instill the football to suit Sancho and others, but no. What is daft is that we have seemingly signed Zirkzee who probably would suit Sancho. But then we have Hojlund who doesn't suit any of our wingers bar Amad, and Ugarte who doesn't fit into a possession based team at all.
He outplayed three defenders for the penalty and excaped from pressure multiple times. I wouldn't count that as typical situations in which he was given space nor do I think Sancho is generally a player who needs overaveragely much space. The opposite, actually - there are few who are as good between the lines. What he showed against Brighton was very good, IMO - that's the Sancho I loved when he was at Dortmund although he looks a bit bulky to be honest
He outplayed three defenders for the penalty and excaped from pressure multiple times. I wouldn't count that as typical situations in which he was given space nor do I think Sancho is generally a player who needs overaveragely much space. The opposite, actually - there are few who are as good between the lines. What he showed against Brighton was very good, IMO - that's the Sancho I loved when he was at Dortmund although he looks a bit bulky to be honest
Let's be real here. He's lucky to get it past the defender, and it could have bounced in another direction too and nothing would've ever came of that. Rashford certainly would've progressed the ball here too or, as I said even Antony might be lucky with something like that. Next up is fast feet for the pass, which was good I'll give him that, but come on - the penalty is just really clumpsy by the Brighton defender. To sum that up as "outplayed three defenders" is really a stretch.
"Outplayed three defenders" is about as literal a description of what happened though mate...? It's not like anyone said that he "got past them with a piece of brilliance heretofore never seen by the likes of man or beast" or "did a Messi" or anything else over the top.
No one is saying that he did something that no one else in the world could do given the same opportunity, but it's a simple fact that he got past three defenders and won a penalty. Personally couldn't care less how lucky he's getting if he continues to create excellent goalscoring chances for the team.
Yes, when he beat the first man, the defender was on the ball but from a rather disadvantageous position thanks to Sancho seeing the space and going past him. Everything after that was great. If the Brighton defender didn't foul him, he'd have a one on one against the goal keeper with the ball on his strong foot. Even before the first dribbling, his first touch was excellent.
That aside, he had a few other scenes in which he solved pressing situations quite well. I didn't see that in a match highlight video but a highlight video of only him, though.
United fans wanted an heir to Ronaldo without actually analysing Sancho's game and how Dortmund played which got the best out of him.
At Chelsea we just need him to do exactly what he was doing at Dortmund, retain the ball and be creative finding teammates making runs into the box.
Got 3 assists just doing that, exactly how Dortmund played when he was there.
We don't need him bombing up and down the field, taking on everyone and putting it top bins, we simply need him to make the system tick, which is exactly what he is...a system player.
United fans massively misprofiled him and expected him to turn into a player he simply wasn't.
He was never a Ronaldo, he is a Luis Figo.
At Chelsea we just need him to do exactly what he was doing at Dortmund, retain the ball and be creative finding teammates making runs into the box.
Got 3 assists just doing that, exactly how Dortmund played when he was there.
We don't need him bombing up and down the field, taking on everyone and putting it top bins, we simply need him to make the system tick, which is exactly what he is...a system player.
United fans massively misprofiled him and expected him to turn into a player he simply wasn't.
He was never a Ronaldo, he is a Luis Figo.
Mata was such a good player but he should never have joined united.
Well, that is basically what outplayed means.
Suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then - don't think you have to always do something brilliant to play better than the opposition for a sequence.
You’ll be surprised. A system player, for me at least, is one that fits a system where you’re dominating games with little space to dribble. He fits you currently because he thrives on the counter and with loads of space, like at Dortmund. If you can give him that by playing a bit of gung-ho football, then you’ll be fine I reckon. Maresca’s setup does seem to do that and so many goals this season for you have been on the counter with Palmer setting it all up and players like Madueke (and now Sancho) thriving. Not sure if it’ll ever be title challenging type of football though, but you’re on to a good start. Neto should thrive in a playing style like this too, so at least it looks like you got the cast right for this type of manager.
He’s playing out of his skin because he has a point to prove and things are going well for Chelsea.. let’s see how well he plays when they hit a bad run of form or he turns up late for training again and the manager has to have a word with him, that’s when he’s at his worst
The notion that Sancho thrives when given space is one of the strangest common takes on here I've seen. If there ever was a winger who thrives in the tight spaces it is Sancho. It sounds as wrong to me as saying Pirlo loved to throw himself into tackles.
I think it also has a lot to do with how the manager and club deals with it. Sancho is hardly the only player to have ever existed with issues of discipline and motivation. Ronaldinho barely ever trained. Hazard was well known for being lazy in training and eating whatever he wanted. Chelsea found a way to deal with it, Madrid didn't.
Talent is great and all that, but at the highest level, sometimes the environment and relationships also plays a key role in bringing and sustaining the best out of a player. They are still humans anyways...
Yeah. One thing that has surprised me about Maresca's football is how fast everything happens. Having not watched a lot of Leicester last season I was fully expecting us to have plenty of sterile possession around the penalty box and struggling to break down defences but so far this season has been anything but that. Most of our goals have been scored very quickly after winning the ball back.
But pressing from very high up the pitch and looking for that quick goal on the transition has often left us in trouble defensively as well. As long as it's enough to keep outscoring the opponents despite a few defensive blunders here and there I'm all for it because it's definitely entertaining to watch, but I do have my doubts about pulling off a similar setup against some of the top sides in the league. Of course it's possible Maresca will have an alternative game plan for those occasions but that remains to be seen.
The few games after the next international break (Liverpool, Newcastle, Man United, Arsenal within three weeks) will be a huge test to our credentials this season.
Nice to throw in one relegation fodder team amongst those 3 other hard ones.
Sounds like you've never watched Sancho in Dortmund vs United. Bundesliga = Loads of space and quality of tempo, quality of defending on another level. Premier League, constant high tempo, different pace, different space. At Dortmund he used to get the ball all the times with lots of space to attack.
Yeah, if Chelsea can afford to let that kind of thing slide, then he’ll probably do ok. He just joined United at a time where discipline was a focus and there was too much of it about
The belief that a player with Sancho's skillset requires space more so than other profiles is frankly speaking ridiculous. Even a very superficial look at Sancho's highlights tells you that he excels at breaking opponent lines with finesse, flick passes, body feints, footwork, decision making and spatial awareness. All those attributes - by definition - work best in condensed spaces and don't really help him when there are no opponents around.
The reason you hear the notion that Sancho only works when given space isn't a result of an objective observation or a logical thought process but rather a foregone conclusion faciliated by your fanbase's exceptionalism. You guys can't simply admit that your club struggles heavily at getting the best out of players it signed, no, it either has to be that the club is simply too big, that the league is too fast or too difficult, or something along those lines. You're pretending to be self-critical, you're like the job applicant who says "my biggest weakness is I work too hard" in the interview.
If Sancho is as good as you claim and the league isn't more challenging, surely he should be able to replicate his numbers for Dortmund by scoring 17 goals and 16 assists in the league alone playing for Chelsea. We will see at the end of the season. My bet is 5 goals and 7 assists, slight improvement from his United seasons.
He'll get that just by making a short pass to Cole Palmer
Oh my..
A pass to Cole Palmer who shoots from halfway line and scores.
Commentators and the bedwetters of RedCafe: "And Sancho continues his otherwordly form for Chelsea! What a player!"
You're the one that keeps going on about how Bundesliga is the same level as Premier League, so explain to me how exactly that would be unlikely for Sancho to accomplish if that is the case.
I didn't say that either.
I cant say anything else than you haven’t watched him at United. Exactly those circumstances he didnt work out in, but yeah blame United or the manager, sounds like easy for you. One thing is theory, another is reality. We’re yet to see him do anything like you tell yourself in Chelsea too.
Honestly, you sound like the biggest bedwetter in this thread.
... and there's a lot of em
This does not make sense at all. I'm laughing at the ones whining over the departure of Sancho, suggesting we should have kept him and fearing what he'll do to us when he plays us. It is hilarious and is - by definiton - being a bedwetter, so how exactly does me doing the opposite one? He is a mediocre-to-good winger who rightfully got sold, and a couple of assists does not change that at all. He dribbled for us too, scored some goals, and assisted, had some very cute passes and looked the same player he did for Chelsea, but ultimately that's not good enough, so why is this Sancho reborn thing going on like he is Lamine Yamal?
By the way, he was fairly poor for Dortmund as well, other than a few games in Bundesliga and against PSG in CL. You should have read what Dortmund fans on reddit had to say about him during the loan period, so I don't get why you act like he only has been poor for us, and exceptional at every other club.
Yes, when he was there on loan from United. Before he went to United he spend four seasons in Dortmund, most of the time as a really good player. He had some spells of bad form in Dortmund as well, not denying that, but overall most of the time he truly was a great player and that he didn't show it all the time can simply be excused because he was a really young player and it's normal to get more consistent when you mature.
You are right, he mostly wasn't great when returning to Dortmund, but on one hand Dortmund was much worse overall compared to when he left, and on the other hand, how could he be great after not being allowed to train with a team for months? It was to be expected that he would need time to get up to speed. The time in Manchester simply ruined him (definitely also due to his own faults) and he slowly needs to crawl back out of that hole. What he shows at Chelsea looks promising and we will have to wait and see which heights he can really reach again.
Yes, I was thinking of his loan after United. I was excited when we signed him after his impressive play for Dortmund, but it was also obvious he would struggle more in the PL, I was just not aware it would be to this extent. In hindsight, it makes sense because yes - we have a way of ruining talents - but also, is there a slow, lightweight winger that has been a success in PL ever? I can't think of any, and especially not in recent years. It is mostly quick and physical ones like Mané, Salah, Rashford once upon a time, Son, Sané etc.
The only ones I can think of that come close are Sterling - although he is super quick that made up for it - and Mahrez, but he had a much bigger build and was a fantastic dribbler.
I think Sancho can potentially do well, but he'll likely not sustain it for a longer period, and he will likely never will be a winger that puts up big numbers in the league. I'll be very, very surprised if he does. I can't believe Chelsea fans are thinking this was a bargain. £16m in his salary every single year.
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Not to take the thread off topic, but while I generally don't lament many players that go elsewhere, I really feel like Graelish was a "One that got away" player. When I watched him he just screamed "United player" to me. Even if things probably would have still gone to crap under late stage Ole and ETH, I do think Graelish would have been really good for us.
It’s often the case that when a relationship breaks down that there is slagging off almost jealousy it seems to me that many on here are suffering some sort of relationship breakdown symptoms
He’s gone from Utd , that is all bar the shouting, yet some on here seem to me are so intent on almost convincing themselves that they are happy he has gone they are going to such extremes such as saying an assist doesn’t count because of this or that or he did this or that. As for the suggestion that Dortmund fans say he was poor if you dig deep enough you will always find conflicting views. If he had been that bad whilst on loan he certainly wouldn’t have feature in 20+ games for them over a 5 month period nor.
If he really is the person or the player some say then they need to stop “ beating themselves up” he is Chelsea’s problem now . If Chelsea stay up then come 2025 pre season you will be getting a fee which will cover the last sum to be amortised by you.
Personally from a Chelsea supporters perspective I think it was a no brainer at £20 million plus a potential £5 million in add ons in today’s world for a player that clearly many in football do or did rate . A player that choose Utd which for all concerned clearly hasn’t worked out so why not just count your blessings as it were and move on and enjoy a lot more appearances from Antony
He simply was worse than many hoped, but still better than the alternatives available in Dortmund. Which says a lot about Dortmund's squad to be honest. Lots of Dortmund fans are generally unhappy about the state and direction of the club in the last years.
Coming from a Chelsea fan this is unsurprising, the way that you've spent in the last few years.
Oh, it was a no-brainer, was it? Getting Pedro Neto for over £50m didn't cut it? You needed to add 20 other players. Every incoming transfer is a no brainer for you
I am happy he is gone, it's just a weird turn this has taken. Every non-United fan seem to think he is a world class winger after going to Chelsea, but that is primarily down to a lot of football fans hating United because they ruined their childhood, and I have to say it is funny.
And yes, he would play that much for Dortmund because of the alternatives. It is like saying Antony wouldn't play so much for United if he was that bad. But he was.
I'll give it a couple months and you'll come back begging for us to take him back, and claim you never wanted him in the first place.
Not quite sure where you get the £16 million from . From everything I read he was on circa £250k a week at Utd circa £12-£13 million a year. He certainly isn’t getting a pay rise to go to Chelsea nor would he, if your numbers are correct, be the highest paid player at Chelsea, indeed the reports are he has agreed a pay cut which again as reported the suggestion is that he has had to agree to the new owners incentive based pay policy so I would imagine that means his pay at Chelsea will be significantly less than £10 million pa still a vast sum but with the emphasis on squad costs a player on a 5 year deal with an amortised charge of £4-5 million and a wage of say £10 million making £15 million charge a year in the current scheme of things is not bad at all
I thought it was £350k a week, but can't say for sure. He was earning more than De Gea when he signed, so it can't be £250k.
You got him for cheap precisely because of his ridiculous wages, so it looks cheaper than it really is. You should hope it pays off or you'll be stuck with a lazy, unmotivated player that will be tough to get rid of.