[The White Pele]

I was about to weigh in saying that United have got his timeline all wrong if he’s not going to be ready for the first game…but it’s easy to forget that the Euros finished less than 4 weeks ago and his transfer was only made official 2 weeks ago.

Im guessing that by the time he’s had his holiday that would have taken him into the latter part of this week and it was probably agreed that it would be better for him to take time getting himself settled in rather than to join for the last day or two in Scotland. It’s annoying but ultimately a consequence of England going the distance at the Euros.

 

[bosnian_red]

Well yeah obviously its not up to me. Not sure that needed stating. Just an opinion.

But other guys who've played a lot more have come back a fair bit quicker.

It's frustrating our big money signing won't be ready for the first game when it feels that was avoidable

He was never going to be available to start though! He was part of an England squad that made the final. All the time when there are international tournaments, players miss the very start of the season. Especially a new signing moving countries too. They need time to bed in with the team, they need time to train and get match fit after a holiday. Sancho's holiday was delayed by a few days after the final due to signing for United. So if he came back on Monday with Shaw and Maguire, he'd have less of a break, which isn't fair. It's not even minutes played. Being injured or being on the bench doesn't mean you aren't relaxing mentally, or for the bench you are still training and stating match fit every day and following the rigorous schedule. It was always going to be game 2 or 3 when he is ready to start. He'll be fine. People need to stop making a big deal out of nothing and stop making unreasonable and inhumane demands from athletes. They need to be physically ready, but also mentally fresh as it's so demanding.

 

[Marwood]

I was about to weigh in saying that United have got his timeline all wrong if he’s not going to be ready for the first game…but it’s easy to forget that the Euros finished less than 4 weeks ago and his transfer was only made official 2 weeks ago.

Im guessing that by the time he’s had his holiday that would have taken him into the latter part of this week and it was probably agreed that it would be better for him to take time getting himself settled in rather than to join for the last day or two in Scotland. It’s annoying but ultimately a consequence of England going the distance at the Euros.

I'd agree if he'd played a lot during the euros but instead he's likely to not even be properly fit for the Southampton game. By the time that comes around he'll have not got involved in any pre season work and will have played one game in about 3 month. That's a long break from games.

This a young lad who hasn't been injured.

It wouldn't bother me so much if I felt we were a team that could recover from a slow start but that hasn't been the case for a long time.

Don't think we're the type of unit right now that can afford to drop too many points in the opening five games.

 

[Marwood]

He was never going to be available to start though! He was part of an England squad that made the final. All the time when there are international tournaments, players miss the very start of the season. Especially a new signing moving countries too. They need time to bed in with the team, they need time to train and get match fit after a holiday. Sancho's holiday was delayed by a few days after the final due to signing for United. So if he came back on Monday with Shaw and Maguire, he'd have less of a break, which isn't fair. It's not even minutes played. Being injured or being on the bench doesn't mean you aren't relaxing mentally, or for the bench you are still training and stating match fit every day and following the rigorous schedule. It was always going to be game 2 or 3 when he is ready to start. He'll be fine. People need to stop making a big deal out of nothing and stop making unreasonable and inhumane demands from athletes. They need to be physically ready, but also mentally fresh as it's so demanding.

So you don't think Shaw or Maguire will play the Leeds game?

 

[Damien]

It wouldn't bother me so much if I felt we were a team that could recover from a slow start but that hasn't been the case for a long time.

Last season we won three of the first seven games, losing three and still finished second - losing just three of the following 31 games.

 

[bosnian_red]

So you don't think Shaw or Maguire will play the Leeds game?

They are not new signings moving to a new country. Centerbacks definitely need less time to come back fit and ready due to fewer short bursts. Luke Shaw would likely not be starting if Telles wasn't injured. Sancho also left on holiday a few days after they did, hence coming back Monday.

Is this your first summer? How often do you see new signings not start the first game? Remember when we signed RVP in 12/13 and he didn't start the first game? It's also a wildly different situation when you have options and no options. No Maguire means no centerbacks essentially. No Shaw means no left back. No Sancho means Pogba and Greenwood and Martial starting up top likely as Cavani and Rashford also won't be ready.

 

[3vra]

The guy is 21 is moving from country he lived his whole adult live in, when he went to the Euro he was not sure about transfer Being done. After the final he had tons of stuff to take care of, things he could not have done before, then It was all transfer stuff, signings, medical, photoshots etc. It all took him around a week, and he is coming back week later then the other players. His vacations startered the minute he left United ground , ,not minute before that.

He did not played much this season and at the Euro even less, but his vacations are not about physical but mostly about mental relax. Whole year he was thinking about that United transfer he had really bad form at the beggining, then the Euros, that missed penalty, finally making that transfer to happen. It all really is nerve wracking.
I remember when was about to close the biggest deal in my Life few years ago i went to spa for the whole weekend to take my mind off but still It was the most stressful weekend of my Life yet.

If you want to get ready, fresh player without any unsolved issues to fire up our whole season and with all things around being done , from the minute he come back being focused 100% then that week should not be a problem.

If you want him to cut short his vacations to be ready for Leeds and then burn out during the season then FFS give me (him) a break !

 

[Marwood]

Last season we won three of the first seven games, losing three and still finished second - losing just three of the following 31 games.

Yeah we finished second.

Imagine we didn't lose three of the first seven.

 

[DWelbz19]

Martial
Pogba Bruno Greenwood
Fred Matic/McTom
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan Bissaka
De Gea​

It's fine... shows our depth when Rashford, Cavani, Sancho, Varane can come in to that.

It really does. The attack is really up there. It’s the central midfield that’s the big concern.

 

[Hansi Fick]

It probably is, however Solskjaer and the club need to start putting their foot down here.

Unless he's recovering from an unknown injury, there's no excuse for him not to be showing up by now, especially when you consider that Maguire and Shaw are both back in training having both played more minutes than Sancho at the Euros.

The club needs to put its foot down and request a player to come back from his regular and agreed holiday?

Wt actual f

 

[Marwood]

They are not new signings moving to a new country. Centerbacks definitely need less time to come back fit and ready due to fewer short bursts. Luke Shaw would likely not be starting if Telles wasn't injured. Sancho also left on holiday a few days after they did, hence coming back Monday.

Is this your first summer? How often do you see new signings not start the first game? Remember when we signed RVP in 12/13 and he didn't start the first game? It's also a wildly different situation when you have options and no options. No Maguire means no centerbacks essentially. No Shaw means no left back. No Sancho means Pogba and Greenwood and Martial starting up top likely as Cavani and Rashford also won't be ready.

RvP signed 17th August and came on as a sub just 3 days later in the first game of the season. Just can't be compared.

Moving to a new country? He's English moving to England. He's lived in Manchester longer than he has Germany. It's not that big a deal.

A lot of caveats there to justify him not being fit for the start.

You said he shouldn't be expected to be fit because of the Euros. Yet every other player who featured has come back for some part of the pre season and will be available for the first game. Guys who actually played a few games as well.

 

[spiriticon]

They are not new signings moving to a new country. Centerbacks definitely need less time to come back fit and ready due to fewer short bursts. Luke Shaw would likely not be starting if Telles wasn't injured. Sancho also left on holiday a few days after they did, hence coming back Monday.

Is this your first summer? How often do you see new signings not start the first game? Remember when we signed RVP in 12/13 and he didn't start the first game? It's also a wildly different situation when you have options and no options. No Maguire means no centerbacks essentially. No Shaw means no left back. No Sancho means Pogba and Greenwood and Martial starting up top likely as Cavani and Rashford also won't be ready.

That's not entirely true, come on. If they absolutely needed the time off, there would be others like Tuanzebe and Williams who could do a job too.

Just as long as he doesn't take TOO long when he returns to get to full match fitness. We want to start the season well. We don't want him to come back huffing and puffing and take another 3 weeks to get up to speed. I think he is training on holiday though, so that's a bonus. I just hope we can use him in Game 2 at the very latest.

I don't know if it's the clubs fault, but what's the point in doing deals early if everybody's gonna miss the start of the season anyway? I thought the whole early bird idea was so they get can a proper preseason with the club.

 

[El Jefe]

Those of you complaining are just impatient and want to see him play, that's all. Questioning his attitude is just a way of masking that impatience. He was given time off and he's using it. It the others decide to come back early fair fecks to them but he shouldn't be pressured into feeling like he has a point to prove. Its not like he will find it hard settling in the squad either, he knows a few of the players and has lived in Manchester for a few years already.

If he comes back looking like Hazard then we can question him but until then just wait.

 

[8thWonder]

Not happy about this, the time it's taken to get Varane into the country and the complete no show of Cavani thus far

WTF are they playing at?

My guess is McFred in midfield with Pogba on the left.

I do not like McFred in midfield even if it worked last time.

Imo they are fast being found out. Highly effective versus top 6 two seasons ago. Last season we wouldn't score or create any chances versus the top 6.

For a team that got two good signings done fairly quick we really fecked pre season up.

No sign of Cavani returning either.

I don’t know the full story but I’m a little surprised that Sancho himself hasn’t offered to join the squad yet.

Played like 60 minutes of the Euros and I thought he’d be itching to get going. Hope this isn’t going to be a Memphis situation

Was going to write something similar.

It seems odd that he hasn't been integrated into the squad yet. It's almost as if the club is treating the first two league matches as warm up games. A joke.

It probably is, however Solskjaer and the club need to start putting their foot down here.

Unless he's recovering from an unknown injury, there's no excuse for him not to be showing up by now, especially when you consider that Maguire and Shaw are both back in training having both played more minutes than Sancho at the Euros.

As long as we don't drop silly points in the first few games we'll be fine. If we do because the likes of Dan James are starting then questions will be asked. The last thing we want is to be chasing City right from the begining of the season.

Is that true of Sancho though?

26 league games last season and one game over the summer. How much less should a guy play?

It's no major deal but it is a bit surprising he isn't back yet. To me he looks the body type that needs training.

Sancho is a brilliant player but he had disciplinary issues in the past, he might need a tougher approach from Ole.

He should have been with the squad already.

A high profile, big money move, he really needs to hit the ground running just to keep everyone of his and Ole's back.

Yeah we finished second.

Imagine we didn't lose three of the first seven.

Fook me, this place is mental.

Everyone wants us to have a months pre season with all the players fit and chomping at the bit. It's not as if United have said you can all come back when you want!!

Last season and this have had different obstacles that there obviously isn't a clear cut right approach. Every club in the league has been firefighting logistically!

How on earth do you balance, being match fit for the first game, being mentally ready to LAST the season, a variety of Covid issues and several summer international tournaments...

People are already questioning his mentality (and weight issues!) based off taking up his allocated holidays!! Get a grip you absolute melons...

 

[The White Pele]

Martial
Pogba Bruno Greenwood
Fred Matic/McTom
Shaw Maguire Lindelof Wan Bissaka
De Gea​

It's fine... shows our depth when Rashford, Cavani, Sancho, Varane can come in to that.

Suddenly feeling a lot better about the situation looking at this line-up.

 

[Kaizane]

I'm guessing those complaining also cut short the holiday they're given from work, then.

Didn't think so.

 

[Ole'sattheWheel]

I think we can all agree that Ole's main strength is his man management, so I trust he's done right by Sancho here, gauging what is best for the player to get the best out of him after this international break, relocation and integrating into the squad etc.

It'll be fine, everyone just has ants in their pants

 

[sewey89]

All those begging for him to be back ASAP will be the first ones moaning if he shows a bit of fatigue.

The people making the decisions have decided the best scenario is for him to start next week. And they know better than you.

 

[RC89]

He's admitted himself in an interview recently (i'm sure a google search will find it) that he was too immature at United and acted like he'd already "made it" and didn't put the work in that he should have. Basically blamed himself for it going wrong.

I remember reading in UWS a few years ago that Giggs (then assistant) told the team at the end of a training session that training tomorrow would be going ahead as usual and all the coaches would be there to help, but it was now non-compulsory. A test of their determination. Every player showed up except Memphis.

I'm not saying any of this is true of Sancho and i'm not going to judge him on this or that. But reading about Shaw and Maguire returning early on their own accord to help the team (despite playing loads in the Euros) is the sort of personality I want from our players. It's a slight concern that Sancho barely played and still isn't going to return in time to be fit for the season opener. I can't imagine signing for United for £78m ish and then not making myself available for the first game.

Ah okay, quite mature of Depay to be able to acknowledge his mistake.

With regards to Sancho, I mentioned it above that I wonder if we've given him extra time off to clear his head. That penalty miss was huge and I'm sure he still thinks about it.

 

[Marwood]

Fook me, this place is mental.

Everyone wants us to have a months pre season with all the players fit and chomping at the bit. It's not as if United have said you can all come back when you want!!

Last season and this have had different obstacles that there obviously isn't a clear cut right approach. Every club in the league has been firefighting logistically!

How on earth do you balance, being match fit for the first game, being mentally ready to LAST the season, a variety of Covid issues and several summer international tournaments...

People are already questioning his mentality (and weight issues!) based off taking up his allocated holidays!! Get a grip you absolute melons...

Well how are all the other lads who've played a lot more football doing it?

You're talking as if Sancho's approach is universal when in fact he's very much an exception.

We signed Bruno end of Jan 20 and he played three days later. That's after playing through the previous few summers and genuinely moving to a new country with a young family.

I'm sure Jadon could have made at least part of the Scotland trip.

 

[bosnian_red]

That's not entirely true, come on. If they absolutely needed the time off, there would be others like Tuanzebe and Williams who could do a job too.

Just as long as he doesn't take TOO long when he returns to get to full match fitness. We want to start the season well. We don't want him to come back huffing and puffing and take another 3 weeks to get up to speed. I think he is training on holiday though, so that's a bonus. I just hope we can use him in Game 2 at the very latest.

I don't know if it's the clubs fault, but what's the point in doing deals early if everybody's gonna miss the start of the season anyway? I thought the whole early bird idea was so they get can a proper preseason with the club.

You lose the chance of a proper pre season if there is international football. And come on, there's a big difference between Williams who wouldn't start for any premier league club or Tuanzebe who is very average and actual top players.

 

[bosnian_red]

RvP signed 17th August and came on as a sub just 3 days later in the first game of the season. Just can't be compared.

Moving to a new country? He's English moving to England. He's lived in Manchester longer than he has Germany. It's not that big a deal.

A lot of caveats there to justify him not being fit for the start.

You said he shouldn't be expected to be fit because of the Euros. Yet every other player who featured has come back for some part of the pre season and will be available for the first game. Guys who actually played a few games as well.

Nobody needs any caveats or justification in this situation. He's entitled to use his full vacation time. That's literally all there is to it. If your job made you work 7 days a week for 11 months straight, and said you have 3 weeks and that's it, you would take every last second of those 3 weeks, why would you skip your holidays? Especially with how their lives have been the past 2 years. A mental break is needed.

And it can, RvP was training with Arsenal, not straight out of holiday. Happens every time with every club that some players miss the start of the season due to making it far. Hell look at Cavani, finished a week earlier with Uruguay but is coming back at the same time. No drama with him? And they won't all be fit. They'll have had 1 pre season game and 2 weeks of training at most for the guys who came back this week. That's not much.

 

[the_cliff]

I think people are overreacting slightly here, Sancho and Varane are both world class professional football players, Even though they've been on holiday or not been training with the team they've definitely kept in shape while on holiday. In fact, I've seen Pogba, Sancho and Varane working out while on holiday. Maybe he comes off the bench in the Leeds game but he'll defo start after that.

 

[tenpoless]

A fat Sancho and fat Varane after a long burger holidays are still better than pyshically ready Daniel James and Lindelof. That's all there's to it.

 

[8thWonder]

Well how are all the other lads who've played a lot more football doing it?

You're talking as if Sancho's approach is universal when in fact he's very much an exception.

We signed Bruno end of Jan 20 and he played three days later. That's after playing through the previous few summers and genuinely moving to a new country with a young family.

I'm sure Jadon could have made at least part of the Scotland trip.

It's their choice, based on individual circumstances. Holiday time also isn't accrued by playing time. in fact it has no relevance at all. Especially when they train pretty much every day for 9 months of the year.

I definitely did not insinuate in any way it was a universal approach.

My point was and is, he's allowed to take the holiday time allotted to him. Any criticism of him taking it is ridiculous. Players coming back early should/could be praised, players coming back on time shouldn't be criticised.

A fat Sancho and fat Varane after a long burger holidays are still better than pyshically ready Daniel James and Lindelof. That's all there's to it.

That's genuinely not true though is it.

If they're not ready, they we'll play players who are. Obviously Sancho and Varane when fit are clear upgrades, but lets not play players who aren't fit and regret it after...

 

[TheReligion]

He's admitted himself in an interview recently (i'm sure a google search will find it) that he was too immature at United and acted like he'd already "made it" and didn't put the work in that he should have. Basically blamed himself for it going wrong.

I remember reading in UWS a few years ago that Giggs (then assistant) told the team at the end of a training session that training tomorrow would be going ahead as usual and all the coaches would be there to help, but it was now non-compulsory. A test of their determination. Every player showed up except Memphis.

I'm not saying any of this is true of Sancho and i'm not going to judge him on this or that. But reading about Shaw and Maguire returning early on their own accord to help the team (despite playing loads in the Euros) is the sort of personality I want from our players. It's a slight concern that Sancho barely played and still isn't going to return in time to be fit for the season opener. I can't imagine signing for United for £78m ish and then not making myself available for the first game.

It's £72.9m

 

[TheReligion]

Ole has basically said that both Sancho and Varane will be at minimum be on the bench v Leeds. I imagine Sancho will get minutes.

Stop moaning you miserable cnuts.

 

[darioterios]

Maybe change the title to: Jadon Sancho | 2021/22 Non-appearance, looking by how the thread is going.

 

[Marwood]

It's their choice, based on individual circumstances. Holiday time also isn't accrued by playing time. in fact it has no relevance at all. Especially when they train pretty much every day for 9 months of the year.

I definitely did not insinuate in any way it was a universal approach.

My point was and is, he's allowed to take the holiday time allotted to him. Any criticism of him taking it is ridiculous. Players coming back early should/could be praised, players coming back on time shouldn't be criticised.



That's genuinely not true though is it.

If they're not ready, they we'll play players who are. Obviously Sancho and Varane when fit are clear upgrades, but lets not play players who aren't fit and regret it after...

You asked "how on earth" can a player balance it all between summer tournaments, covid etc.

My point was look at every other player who featured in the Euros. They've all done it. It's very much possible. All back training and somewhat ready for Leeds.

By Southampton Jadon will have played one game in almost three months.

 

[Damien]

Yeah we finished second.

Imagine we didn't lose three of the first seven.

We still recovered from a slow start.

Sancho's not the only England player not to return to their club. The City players: Foden, Sterling, Walker and Stones haven't returned either, and like others have said he started his holiday a bit later than the other players did due to finishing the details of his signing from Dortmund.

 

[Marwood]

We still recovered from a slow start.

Sancho's not the only England player not to return to their club. The City players: Foden, Sterling, Walker and Stones haven't returned either, and like others have said he started his holiday a bit later than the other players did due to finishing the details of his signing from Dortmund.

I think a crazy series of comebacks, City having a really slow start and Liverpool collapsing helped us recoup to some extent.

But I wouldn't want to start slow this season and bank on those things happening again. Seems unlikely.

That's the only reason I'm bothered Sancho still hasn't started training. That and just a general feeling that it's his first season after a big move, he should be chomping at the bit. Coupled with barely playing in the summer(Foden injured isn't he, the other City players actually played)I think that seperates him from the other England players.

Maybe its not his fault, maybe the club have sanctioned too much of a break.

 

[Jacob]

Sancho has the body of someone who plays tennis casually on weekends.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

It's £72.9m

That would fall into the “ish”

 

[ThomasEmil]

Sancho has the body of someone who plays tennis casually on weekends.

 

[8thWonder]

You asked "how on earth" can a player balance it all between summer tournaments, covid etc.

My point was look at every other player who featured in the Euros. They've all done it. It's very much possible. All back training and somewhat ready for Leeds.

By Southampton Jadon will have played one game in almost three months.

I meant the club(s), not the players. The players will be advised by the club and the club has to take every player case by case. Inevitably you have some players back later than ideal for a whole host of different reasons. The original comment was a response to people criticizing the club for not having everyone ready...

Playing one game in three months is not the same as being off from football for three months though is it? He's allowed to have a break. He took one. He'll be back on time. That's surely all there is to it. If he has to miss a game then so be it. People questioning him already is a bit of a shambles , don't you agree?

 

[8thWonder]

We still recovered from a slow start.

Sancho's not the only England player not to return to their club. The City players: Foden, Sterling, Walker and Stones haven't returned either, and like others have said he started his holiday a bit later than the other players did due to finishing the details of his signing from Dortmund.

Without looking into it, if that's true then hopefully it will put this argument to bed at least. If it doesn't, should be brought up on every page.

Said it before but players coming back early should/could be praised. Players coming back on time definitely should not be maligned.

 

[Mickson]

Ole taking a risk here. Sancho, Cavani and Varane nowhere ready and haven't even started training yet. We will almost certainly drop points if we play Daniel James.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Well well well, people already turning on him. Typical Redcafe.

Plus he cost us the Ronaldh.. sorry Grealish signing. What a dud.

 

[villain]

I think a crazy series of comebacks, City having a really slow start and Liverpool collapsing helped us recoup to some extent.

But I wouldn't want to start slow this season and bank on those things happening again. Seems unlikely.

That's the only reason I'm bothered Sancho still hasn't started training. That and just a general feeling that it's his first season after a big move, he should be chomping at the bit. Coupled with barely playing in the summer(Foden injured isn't he, the other City players actually played)I think that seperates him from the other England players.

Maybe its not his fault, maybe the club have sanctioned too much of a break.

How do you know whether he is "chomping at the bit" or not? It's just an assumption based on nothing other than him not cutting his holiday short. It's a crazy reach.

 

[Damien]

I think a crazy series of comebacks, City having a really slow start and Liverpool collapsing helped us recoup to some extent.

But I wouldn't want to start slow this season and bank on those things happening again. Seems unlikely.

That's the only reason I'm bothered Sancho still hasn't started training. That and just a general feeling that it's his first season after a big move, he should be chomping at the bit. Coupled with barely playing in the summer(Foden injured isn't he, the other City players actually played)I think that seperates him from the other England players.

Maybe its not his fault, maybe the club have sanctioned too much of a break.

Even though he barely played, he still took part in all the training sessions and was at work the same length of time as the other players. His time on the pitch wasn't as long as the others, though like you alluded to his numbers were similar to Foden.

Just because he's not cut his holiday short doesn't mean he's not champing at the bit to play. I understand the feeling but his break seems to be a standard length rather than too much.