Jadon Sancho | £72.9M fee agreed

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Zehner said:
Sancho is a playmaker. He's one who excels in tight spaces, is an expert in unlocking defensive lines and has a very broad tool set for that. I think what's most impressive is the way he creates passing lines for himself. His body feints and foot work are incredibly hard to defend and he doesn't need to completely send you the wrong way to utilize it. Drag backs and a drop of the shoulder, setting you slightly on the wrong foot and playing the ball through the lane that opened up for a one two that takes multiple players out of the game. He recycles possession very well and still advances the ball all the time. He doesn't really dribble through pace or acceleration but lures players, drags them out of position and then utilizes the spaces left open. One of those players who's better at taking out multiple defenders while dribbling through the middle than beating one in an isolated one on one on the wings.

Now many think that this is exactly what United need but I'm a bit cautious with that. Because in the end, Sancho is a player that plays off other players. He utilizes the runs of his team mates in his dribblings and one twos. He needs players in close proximity to link up. He needs to get the ball back because he plays many short passes to absorb pressure instead of "forcing" it. And that's leading me to the EPL and physicality bit. I believe when players like Bernardo Silva can excel in this league, Sancho can do it easily, too. But this is a question of the team shape - if he has movement around him, if he can "avoid" physical duels and being bullied, he has no issue with it. But if he has to rely on fending off defenders or outpacing them, it will be difficult. Like many Bundesliga players, he's used to very organized football in general and I'm not sure that's the case at United. I also believe that this was the reason why players such as Mkhitaryan or Kagawa couldn't reproduce their Bundesliga form. Physical players have it much easier because they can deal with the physicality. Havertz was a similar case and to an extent Werner, too. They did much better when they found more structure under Tuchel and sometimes were bullied under Lampard.

The right wing for me is a bit of a red flag. Sancho is clearly an inverted winger, he even plays inverted when he is being played on the right. And there isn't a single world class inverted winger on this planet who doesn't prefer to play with his strong foot inside, it just provides you with more opportunities and makes it easier to recycle possession. So that alone is a very strong argument that Sancho will end up on the left - this season, he played his best football there.
Anyway, he's definitely better than most at utilizing his strengthes on the other side, too. Stylewise he's very similar to Neymar for me but Neymar would never in a million years play on the right while Sancho can still do a job there. Anyway, it is important to consider how he did that exactly. Because most of the time he was played on the right for Dortmund, it was with Hakimi playing as a RWB, providing width. Sancho then played as a right or left sided ten in this system. He didn't clutch the line, he played in the right half spaces where he could link up with many players excellently.
But at United, you don't play with three man at the back and you don't have a Hakimi but a Wan-Bissaka - a good player in his own right but not somebody who can pose a continuous attacking thread so chances are Sancho will end up isolated - and that's when he's at his worst. As I said, he needs movement surrounding him, team mates dragging players out of positions etc. So I'm skeptical regarding this. I hope mid to long term, he'll become first choice at LW for you guys because that's where he'll be at his best. Maybe Diallo - Greenwood - Sancho is the future, who knows.
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Very insightful posts and I hope you're wrong but fear that you're right.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Very insightful posts and I hope you're wrong but fear that you're right.
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He can't be right. Dortmund were absoulte shit last year and he came back to take his below par teamates to the top 4, won a cup and was the best player in the league. Thats how individually grest Jadon is.
 
He may not even get off the bench today which shows just how inept a manager Southgate is
 
Zehner said:
Sancho is a playmaker. He's one who excels in tight spaces, is an expert in unlocking defensive lines and has a very broad tool set for that. I think what's most impressive is the way he creates passing lines for himself. His body feints and foot work are incredibly hard to defend and he doesn't need to completely send you the wrong way to utilize it. Drag backs and a drop of the shoulder, setting you slightly on the wrong foot and playing the ball through the lane that opened up for a one two that takes multiple players out of the game. He recycles possession very well and still advances the ball all the time. He doesn't really dribble through pace or acceleration but lures players, drags them out of position and then utilizes the spaces left open. One of those players who's better at taking out multiple defenders while dribbling through the middle than beating one in an isolated one on one on the wings.

Now many think that this is exactly what United need but I'm a bit cautious with that. Because in the end, Sancho is a player that plays off other players. He utilizes the runs of his team mates in his dribblings and one twos. He needs players in close proximity to link up. He needs to get the ball back because he plays many short passes to absorb pressure instead of "forcing" it. And that's leading me to the EPL and physicality bit. I believe when players like Bernardo Silva can excel in this league, Sancho can do it easily, too. But this is a question of the team shape - if he has movement around him, if he can "avoid" physical duels and being bullied, he has no issue with it. But if he has to rely on fending off defenders or outpacing them, it will be difficult. Like many Bundesliga players, he's used to very organized football in general and I'm not sure that's the case at United. I also believe that this was the reason why players such as Mkhitaryan or Kagawa couldn't reproduce their Bundesliga form. Physical players have it much easier because they can deal with the physicality. Havertz was a similar case and to an extent Werner, too. They did much better when they found more structure under Tuchel and sometimes were bullied under Lampard.

The right wing for me is a bit of a red flag. Sancho is clearly an inverted winger, he even plays inverted when he is being played on the right. And there isn't a single world class inverted winger on this planet who doesn't prefer to play with his strong foot inside, it just provides you with more opportunities and makes it easier to recycle possession. So that alone is a very strong argument that Sancho will end up on the left - this season, he played his best football there.
Anyway, he's definitely better than most at utilizing his strengthes on the other side, too. Stylewise he's very similar to Neymar for me but Neymar would never in a million years play on the right while Sancho can still do a job there. Anyway, it is important to consider how he did that exactly. Because most of the time he was played on the right for Dortmund, it was with Hakimi playing as a RWB, providing width. Sancho then played as a right or left sided ten in this system. He didn't clutch the line, he played in the right half spaces where he could link up with many players excellently.
But at United, you don't play with three man at the back and you don't have a Hakimi but a Wan-Bissaka - a good player in his own right but not somebody who can pose a continuous attacking thread so chances are Sancho will end up isolated - and that's when he's at his worst. As I said, he needs movement surrounding him, team mates dragging players out of positions etc. So I'm skeptical regarding this. I hope mid to long term, he'll become first choice at LW for you guys because that's where he'll be at his best. Maybe Diallo - Greenwood - Sancho is the future, who knows.
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I could be wrong but what you described here to me sounds like what Juan Mata does for us when he is at his best, unfortunately that doesn't come about enough. With Juan for us he appears on the right when in a defensive shape but when we attack he goes inside to form passing triangles, initiate 1-2s with the other forwards. Basically when we attack he goes from being a right winger to being a play maker. We have always said if he had just a bit of pace( he is very slow) he would be class for us. If he can perform to Mata' s best on a consistent basis I would be very happy with this signing because when Mata is on it he usually helps so much against park the bus teams.
 
It is very noticeable looking through his goals and assists this last season... all from the left wing.
 
cyberman said:
He can't be right. Dortmund were absoulte shit last year and he came back to take his below par teamates to the top 4, won a cup and was the best player in the league. Thats how individually grest Jadon is.
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What you are saying doesnt contradict what he is saying even in one way. He is comparing him to the likes of Neymar, for sure Jadon is individually great. From what Ive seen from him though, he is very much and link up/team player that makes most of those around him. We have the players for that but the tactics have to be right for it as well.

100% Sancho can dribble, shoot, cross etc but he's not a young ronaldo in style who was able to just go and play his own game by his sheer pace, strength and skill. Sancho is faster and trickier than Mata but not as unstoppable as Hazard from what Ive seen so far by himself. It is going to be interesting.
 
Bebestation said:
Me too. From what I have understood so far is that Sancho is a creative player with some good finishing ability- I don’t see why him as a creative/goal scoring player playing in Bruno’s position and then also having Bruno a bit deeper would really be a negative?

Could Sancho play centrally with ability to get in to both LW/RW positioning in your eyes?
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I don't see why not, but that's something very rare I believe, at least at United.
 
When I was studying stage management at college, we used to use the term 'a dog's dick' when setting the lighting aim. e.g. "can you move it a dog's dick to the left" which meant a small movement to the left.

This was increased to the type of dog to indicate the size of movement needed - Great Dane = large movement, chihuahua = very tiny movement.

On this dog's dick scale, I'd say the deal for Sancho is somewhere between a dalmation and a labrador away from being completed.
 
Rado_N said:
@mitchmouse would have expert negotiated a €95m deal a month ago by “just getting on and paying the fecking asking price”, which would have been better. For some reason.
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and just what is the current bid? and just what is the amount we are going to have to pay? Or have I missed the bit where we've signed him already?
 
GaryLifo said:
When I was studying stage management at college, we used to use the term 'a dog's dick' when setting the lighting aim. e.g. "can you move it a dog's dick to the left" which meant a small movement to the left.

This was increased to the type of dog to indicate the size of movement needed - Great Dane = large movement, chihuahua = very tiny movement.

On this dog's dick scale, I'd say the deal for Sancho is somewhere between a dalmation and a labrador away from being completed.
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Are you sure this was a course and not an underage sex ring?
 
cyberman said:
He can't be right. Dortmund were absoulte shit last year and he came back to take his below par teamates to the top 4, won a cup and was the best player in the league. Thats how individually grest Jadon is.
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Robert Lewandowski was the leagues best player and it was not particulary close. Erling Haaland was the overall best performing player of Dortmund that season and the return to form by Marco Reus was at least as equally impactful for the salvage of the season in the final phase as Sancho was. Sooo, yeah....
 
I think he will be a success. My main concern is whether Ole will actually rotate his attacking players now or if it means the same player(s) will constantly sit on the bench and just get 5 minute cameo's such as DvB.
 
AjaxCunian said:
What you are saying doesnt contradict what he is saying even in one way. He is comparing him to the likes of Neymar, for sure Jadon is individually great. From what Ive seen from him though, he is very much and link up/team player that makes most of those around him. We have the players for that but the tactics have to be right for it as well.

100% Sancho can dribble, shoot, cross etc but he's not a young ronaldo in style who was able to just go and play his own game by his sheer pace, strength and skill. Sancho is faster and trickier than Mata but not as unstoppable as Hazard from what Ive seen so far by himself. It is going to be interesting.
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Exactly. I'll be following you guys quite closely if you land him since I think youv've got quite a great team by now. I think it will be difficult to string it all together, though, since the players are not the most natural fits for each other. Personally I believe it will take some time to get going and to be honest I also think you need a manager who really excels at the tactical side of things to find something that is working to challenge for the big titles again. But the talent is definitely there now in almost every position. Still, I believe people will be in for a disappointment if they think Sancho is the one piece missing. It's not working like that.

Anyway, I also think this is a step you have to take sooner or later anyway, regardless of Sancho. So as a United fan, I'd definitely be cheering this signing. Individually, I think he is the most talented player you signed since Rooney and Cristiano.
 
Zehner said:
Sancho is a playmaker. He's one who excels in tight spaces, is an expert in unlocking defensive lines and has a very broad tool set for that. I think what's most impressive is the way he creates passing lines for himself. His body feints and foot work are incredibly hard to defend and he doesn't need to completely send you the wrong way to utilize it. Drag backs and a drop of the shoulder, setting you slightly on the wrong foot and playing the ball through the lane that opened up for a one two that takes multiple players out of the game. He recycles possession very well and still advances the ball all the time. He doesn't really dribble through pace or acceleration but lures players, drags them out of position and then utilizes the spaces left open. One of those players who's better at taking out multiple defenders while dribbling through the middle than beating one in an isolated one on one on the wings.

Now many think that this is exactly what United need but I'm a bit cautious with that. Because in the end, Sancho is a player that plays off other players. He utilizes the runs of his team mates in his dribblings and one twos. He needs players in close proximity to link up. He needs to get the ball back because he plays many short passes to absorb pressure instead of "forcing" it. And that's leading me to the EPL and physicality bit. I believe when players like Bernardo Silva can excel in this league, Sancho can do it easily, too. But this is a question of the team shape - if he has movement around him, if he can "avoid" physical duels and being bullied, he has no issue with it. But if he has to rely on fending off defenders or outpacing them, it will be difficult. Like many Bundesliga players, he's used to very organized football in general and I'm not sure that's the case at United. I also believe that this was the reason why players such as Mkhitaryan or Kagawa couldn't reproduce their Bundesliga form. Physical players have it much easier because they can deal with the physicality. Havertz was a similar case and to an extent Werner, too. They did much better when they found more structure under Tuchel and sometimes were bullied under Lampard.

The right wing for me is a bit of a red flag. Sancho is clearly an inverted winger, he even plays inverted when he is being played on the right. And there isn't a single world class inverted winger on this planet who doesn't prefer to play with his strong foot inside, it just provides you with more opportunities and makes it easier to recycle possession. So that alone is a very strong argument that Sancho will end up on the left - this season, he played his best football there.
Anyway, he's definitely better than most at utilizing his strengthes on the other side, too. Stylewise he's very similar to Neymar for me but Neymar would never in a million years play on the right while Sancho can still do a job there. Anyway, it is important to consider how he did that exactly. Because most of the time he was played on the right for Dortmund, it was with Hakimi playing as a RWB, providing width. Sancho then played as a right or left sided ten in this system. He didn't clutch the line, he played in the right half spaces where he could link up with many players excellently.
But at United, you don't play with three man at the back and you don't have a Hakimi but a Wan-Bissaka - a good player in his own right but not somebody who can pose a continuous attacking thread so chances are Sancho will end up isolated - and that's when he's at his worst. As I said, he needs movement surrounding him, team mates dragging players out of positions etc. So I'm skeptical regarding this. I hope mid to long term, he'll become first choice at LW for you guys because that's where he'll be at his best. Maybe Diallo - Greenwood - Sancho is the future, who knows.
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Excellent post.
 
0le said:
I think he will be a success. My main concern is whether Ole will actually rotate his attacking players now or if it means the same player(s) will constantly sit on the bench and just get 5 minute cameo's such as DvB.
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Sancho and Donny would actually link up really well together. They both play that intricate quick passing style. Sometimes Donny would lay the ball off and make a really nice run and Rashford etc wouldn’t find him again.
 
Zehner said:
Exactly. I'll be following you guys quite closely if you land him since I think youv've got quite a great team by now. I think it will be difficult to string it all together, though, since the players are not the most natural fits for each other. Personally I believe it will take some time to get going and to be honest I also think you need a manager who really excels at the tactical side of things to find something that is working to challenge for the big titles again. But the talent is definitely there now in almost every position. Still, I believe people will be in for a disappointment if they think Sancho is the one piece missing. It's not working like that.

Anyway, I also think this is a step you have to take sooner or later anyway, regardless of Sancho. So as a United fan, I'd definitely be cheering this signing. Individually, I think he is the most talented player you signed since Rooney and Cristiano.
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Not sure if he's more talented than di Maria, he would have been awesome if he really wanted to play here. Those first few games, wow.
 
Zehner said:
Anyway, I also think this is a step you have to take sooner or later anyway, regardless of Sancho. So as a United fan, I'd definitely be cheering this signing. Individually, I think he is the most talented player you signed since Rooney and Cristiano.
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Don't forget Pogba.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Wait, so they're... negotiating?! @Zehner Why are the media telling us lies!? We all know Dortmund don't do that.
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Patience ;) I'm still confident that the sum will be what they asked for. The Mirror already reported the sum will be 80m pound which equals €93m.
 
both clubs will be able to present this as a win. United can say "€85m is a good deal and we brought the price down quite a bit", Dortmund can say "although the base fee is a bit lower, we'll still get our asking price once the easily achievable add-ons are met".
 
Zehner said:
Patience ;) I'm still confident that the sum will be what they asked for. The Mirror already reported the sum will be 80m pound which equals €93m.
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Has it come to putting your faith in The Mirror? How the mighty have fallen. :)
 
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