He’s got a Depay vibe to him that I want no where near our dressing room ever again
Jack Grealish
- Thread starter Samid
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He's grown it out a bit in that clip.
I know what you mean. They both act like Billy Big Bollocks in the way they strut around both on and off the pitch.
But whereas Depay's alpha-male arrogance came from the gym, Grealish's comes from the pitch.
The difference we need to worry about is in the way they influence matches and act as leaders. Grealish has that in bucket loads. Depay never did.
Sorry for tagging you then, mate! Was probably the squishinator.
Not just in the prem, but out of the top 5 leagues!
He's been fouled 84 times and in distant 2nd is Zaha with 65. Grealish has played over 100 minutes less, too.
3rd is Fekir who's played 400 mins less than Grealish so he'd probably be 1st if he played more. I'm sure Arthur would be up there as well if he played more often.
Hope we steer well clear and thankfully I think we will.
Yes, let’s win loads of free kicks we never score from!
I have one minor criticism of Grealish recently and that is,and this was noticeable against Watford and us, he takes too many touches.
There were numerous occasions when he could've released the ball quicker against Watford.
But this can easily be toned down abit under good coaching and being primarily at a bigger club with better individuals.
Still,quite surprised at how much he's developed on and off the pitch.
He really was verging on Ravel Morrison levels of potentially wasting his career.
There were numerous occasions when he could've released the ball quicker against Watford.
But this can easily be toned down abit under good coaching and being primarily at a bigger club with better individuals.
Still,quite surprised at how much he's developed on and off the pitch.
He really was verging on Ravel Morrison levels of potentially wasting his career.
It's hard to know how good Jack could be if he was playing for a top six side. He has matured over the last year & his talent is obvious ! You can see the frustration creeping into his game playing for Villa where he is obviously so much better than those around him. I think he would be brilliant in Man Utd's midfield !
Why?
Look at his key passes per game. It’s much better than Maddison in a worse team. Also his expected assists. I think we should focus more on this guy than Maddison. I’m also hearing he would cost 60 million which is better than the 80 quoted for the other. It’s also interesting to see that Daniel James is the only player on the list but isn’t really surprising. We lack way too much creativity not to go for this guy.
hes only going to leave villa if they're relegated I could see Everton going in for him at the end of the season.
We have been missing out on these type of signings for years because of our arrogance. The premier league is the top division in Europe. Signing a talented player that is playing extremely well in the league, even if it's for a far lesser side is far more likely to produce results than buying a player from a smaller league and assuming they can be class her( Nicholas Pepe). It is the same treatment that players like Mane and Robertson received.
this backs up what I thought I’d been seeing. A better bet than Maddison. Has more guile, craft and vision to open up a team than Maddison. Re the criticism about him taking too many touches ... in our team that would be no bad thing. We have a team of players so afraid to hold onto the ball we can only play on the counter. Will never control games as a result. Need more players who actually want the ball in our squad.
He could do better than Everton. Would be brilliant under Pep to replace Silva.
If we get a goal scoring right midfielder, go for this guy. If we are getting a pure right winger, we need more goal threat at no 10.
I do agree with you for the most part but I believe he does take way to many touches. Usually I might believe that when players join us they are coached on what to do more or less with the ball but we already know from evidence that isn’t the case at this club. Look at pogba for instance who has been here for 3 years. He still hasn’t been coached on taking less touches on the ball which sees him lose it right outside our box. Jesse lingard is another example of a player who likes to run with the ball a few steps before making the final pass. Grealish is a great player creatively but Im not really a fan of him overdribbling or holding onto the ball too long. Still I very much want him here.
Considering we already have Pogba who scores goals I’d prefer us to go for a playmaker to help him keep us in possession.
Grealish looks like another counter attack player to me drawing fouls. Great as an option though imo! They create more chances per 90 but we still can’t control the game.
if Pogba leaves my dream would be Havertz but even then where is our playmaker? Toni Kroos is pretty much my favourite midfielder because he just makes it all look so easy to recycle the ball. The opposite of our midfielders.
Levitt looks like a natural in that position but he needs a player in the Thiago / Kroos mould to learn from if we ever want to win the big prizes again. Fred and McT is simply not the answer. Maybe to scrape top 4...
Grealish looks like another counter attack player to me drawing fouls. Great as an option though imo! They create more chances per 90 but we still can’t control the game.
if Pogba leaves my dream would be Havertz but even then where is our playmaker? Toni Kroos is pretty much my favourite midfielder because he just makes it all look so easy to recycle the ball. The opposite of our midfielders.
Levitt looks like a natural in that position but he needs a player in the Thiago / Kroos mould to learn from if we ever want to win the big prizes again. Fred and McT is simply not the answer. Maybe to scrape top 4...
Maddison is a CM/8. You'd have to compare to last season to see what hes like as a 10 as he's only played 2 matches there this season. This season he helps Ndidi with ball winning in central midfield.
Meanwhile Grealish plays left wing and has none of the defensive responsibility that Maddison has. Grealish is a much more realistic buy though, I doubt we could sign Maddison
Grealish has played 540 minutes as a CM this season. Maddison 883 minutes.
The interesting thing is Grealish creates alot more from open play as a CM/8 too than Maddison.
It's weird to me that people seem to discount assists and key passes from set plays. The resultant goals count exactly the same. For xA overall understat has Grealish at 3.70 and Maddison at 3.35.
Personally I'm not convinced either are what we'd want if we retain Pogba. If we were to play a 4-2-1-3 kind of formation I think we'd need a 10 with high work rate.
I would add that the list of xA for players is especially telling for United. Not a single player in the top 25! This has to be one of the first issues we need to address.
Personally I'm not convinced either are what we'd want if we retain Pogba. If we were to play a 4-2-1-3 kind of formation I think we'd need a 10 with high work rate.
I would add that the list of xA for players is especially telling for United. Not a single player in the top 25! This has to be one of the first issues we need to address.
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He's not at all.
Maddison usually plays in a 3. Left of the midfield 3 with Tielemans right and Ndidi deeper. Like the more advanced role Pogba plays at United.
Tielemans is the more defensive of the 2 more advanced midfielders. When they go more defensive, Praet comes into the midfield 3 and Maddison moves into the front 3.
For Villa, Grealish started the season in the midfield 3 and was more of a midfield playmaker. In that midfield 3, McGinn seemed to have more licence to bomb forward. Grealish moved into the front 3 to boost the team's creativity and ability on the counter attack, so they could become more compact.
He's been fantastic in that role and contributes hugely in goals, assists and chance creation. He played in the number 10 role in their last game.
Both Grealish and Maddison can play in a midfield 3, attacking front 3 or number 10. They both have good defensive discipline for creative players.
Grealish has really impressed me this season with his leadership. I think he's a really good option for United. He has the personality to play at OT and I also think he is the far more attainable (and likely cheaper) option of the 2.
What that stat points at, beyond the obvious "Kevin De Bruyne is a fecking machine" is that Villa must rely almost entirely on Graelish to create anything and a lot of those shots he generates for his teammates are low-quality ones. Whether that's on his teammates settling for those shots i don't know since i haven't seen much of Villa. He has the worst KP/xA ratio of all the players on that list
Pogba doesn't score near enough goals
Wrong
Tielemans doesnt win the ball. Maddison does. Tielemans is the purely offensive of Leicester's midfield now
The defensive side on top of his attacking side is why statistically he's been one of the best players in the league this season
He makes more tackles than our starting DMs
Then theres Grealish, who is helping out when he plays CM but has 2 assists and 0 goals from that position
All of Grealish's end product has come from the left wing, where our top scorer Rashford is
Next time do some research
I dont think we could sign Maddison until we're doing better on the pitch, Grealish seems far more realistic. But theres no reason to lie about how good they are and where their strengths are.
I agree. One should not discount them. But it makes sense to split them. It reminds me about the story of when Liverpool started there moneyball approach and bought Downing and Adams due to amount of key passes, failing to understand that huge part was from set play. In Man Utd, the situation it is a bit different, we could really need a player that is good at set pieces (Liverpool had Gerrard and the marginal contribution of someone with a good cross was low, never mind two players!).
But I still think it is useful to split out key passes from open play and set play situation. First, to be able to know what you get.
Second, the quality of a key pass from a corner is significantly lower than open play. Take the best foot in the PL, KdB, he has 146 key passes from corners in the PL. 8 of them resulting in an assist. 1 in 18. From open play he has 330 key passes and 63 assists.1 in every 5.
Third, it is quite a good chance that «anyone» in your team could make a key pass from a corner. Would Grealish have more key passes if he took more corners? Probably, but he would also have fewer goals as he has proved to be a significant goal threath in or around the box on corners.
Couldn't understand the hype when he first broke through, now I think he's developed into a wonderful player. Not sure if I want him at United but I do enjoy watching him play.
Wrong
Tielemans doesnt win the ball. Maddison does. Tielemans is the purely offensive of Leicester's midfield now
The defensive side on top of his attacking side is why statistically he's been one of the best players in the league this season
He makes more tackles than our starting DMs
Then theres Grealish, who is helping out when he plays CM but has 2 assists and 0 goals from that position
All of Grealish's end product has come from the left wing, where our top scorer Rashford is
Next time do some research
I dont think we could sign Maddison until we're doing better on the pitch, Grealish seems far more realistic. But theres no reason to lie about how good they are and where their strengths are.
Maddison has 2,65 key passes from OP according to understats as a CM. Grealish has 2,5 as a CM. But Maddison numbers is very inflated by corners and these key passes are arguably lower quality. In fact, looking at expected goals, Grealish has an xa90 of 0,33 as a CM while Maddison has an xa90 of 0,17 as a CM. Maddison is at half the amount of Grealish in other words. And he has the benefit of taking corners and playing in a far superior team..
I’m sorry, you might have the facts right, but you seem poor at interpreting them.
And if we step out of WhoScored/Understat, Grealish is arguably more talented.
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I don’t need stats to know that Maddison is the superior player and would be the better fit in our midfield
This is also a misinterpretation. He did not argue that Tielsman wins the ball more. He argued that Maddison plays higher up the pitch. And that is correct. Making tackles does not change that. Maddison makes more tackles due to playing higher up the pitch for a high-pressing team. That is like trying to argue that a centerback is more attacking than a fullback since a fullback makes more tackles.
If you wanna see who is most attacking you should look at touches or where they recieve the biggest share of received passes.
Wrong
Tielemans doesnt win the ball. Maddison does. Tielemans is the purely offensive of Leicester's midfield now
The defensive side on top of his attacking side is why statistically he's been one of the best players in the league this season
He makes more tackles than our starting DMs
Then theres Grealish, who is helping out when he plays CM but has 2 assists and 0 goals from that position
All of Grealish's end product has come from the left wing, where our top scorer Rashford is
Next time do some research
I dont think we could sign Maddison until we're doing better on the pitch, Grealish seems far more realistic. But theres no reason to lie about how good they are and where their strengths are.
‘Next time do some research’...
It sounds like you haven’t even watched them. The poster argued with regards to the player’s positions and was on the money. Number of tackles tells us nothing.
Wrong
Tielemans doesnt win the ball. Maddison does. Tielemans is the purely offensive of Leicester's midfield now
The defensive side on top of his attacking side is why statistically he's been one of the best players in the league this season
He makes more tackles than our starting DMs
Then theres Grealish, who is helping out when he plays CM but has 2 assists and 0 goals from that position
All of Grealish's end product has come from the left wing, where our top scorer Rashford is
Next time do some research
I dont think we could sign Maddison until we're doing better on the pitch, Grealish seems far more realistic. But theres no reason to lie about how good they are and where their strengths are.
Wow! How old are you? Which is it? I haven't done enough research or I'm lying?
I don't do research. I watch football. I don't care what your statistics say. Advanced midfield players can win the ball in a team that presses. Maybe you should try watching some football rather than trawling through stats.
So, if Maddison plays a more defensive role than Tielemans, why did that change when they changed formation? When they brought Iheanacho in and played 2 up front with a midfield diamond, the number 10 was Maddison not Tielemans. Odd that if Tielemans usually plays the more advanced central role.
On the money again.
Maddison's set pieces arent the inflation. Its crosses during matches - not from set pieces. This is the same with Kevin De Bruyne, the best AM in the league and nobody talks him down for it.
This is from all positions. 5 crosses that arent from corners, 4 throughballs and 19 general normal passes that led to shots. 28 key passes that arent from corners, 14 that are from corners.
If we look at just appearances from CM and AM positions this season its :
5 crosses unaccounted for by corners, 3 throughballs (2 less than Kevin De Bruyne but in 7 less matches!) and 14 normal passes in general play. 22 key passes that arent from corners and 12 from corners.
De Bruyne :
So De Bruyne has 17 corners and 12 crosses not accounted for by that. 5 throughballs - just 1 more than Maddison (in all positions) and 35 key passes that are just general passes that led to a shot. Obviously he's not as productive as KDB, but KDB also has a lot of key passes through corners and crossing.
Its obviously not a bad thing if hes the best AM in the league...
Well thats a useless suggestion. You say its arguable he's more talented which suggests you know it can be argued the other way. So essentially you typed some words and said nothing.
And again if you only concentrate on attack you're missing the kind of player Maddison is now. Even more-so when we include stats from left wing where Grealish has been at his best this season and is clearly more effective than Maddison is.
He isnt just an attacking player, he's more like a lightweight Vidal now, a ball winner who can also create and score goals. If he wasnt doing a defensive duty and helping Ndidi win the ball, then he'd be more free to concentrate on just making key passes like he did last season and why he created more. He's playing for the team instead of himself and just being an attacking player.
So you ask questions but refuse to do any research. And you ask how old other people are
www.google.com
here you go
Nobody said Maddison plays deeper, I said he adds more to the defense. He wins the ball higher up the pitch just like Ander did for us - that doesnt mean he wasnt helping the defense.
It tells you something you dont want to hear because it doesnt fuel your agenda.
Maddison's set pieces arent the inflation. Its crosses during matches - not from set pieces. This is the same with Kevin De Bruyne, the best AM in the league and nobody talks him down for it.
This is from all positions. 5 crosses that arent from corners, 4 throughballs and 19 general normal passes that led to shots. 28 key passes that arent from corners, 14 that are from corners.
If we look at just appearances from CM and AM positions this season its :
5 crosses unaccounted for by corners, 3 throughballs (2 less than Kevin De Bruyne but in 7 less matches!) and 14 normal passes in general play. 22 key passes that arent from corners and 12 from corners.
De Bruyne :
So De Bruyne has 17 corners and 12 crosses not accounted for by that. 5 throughballs - just 1 more than Maddison (in all positions) and 35 key passes that are just general passes that led to a shot. Obviously he's not as productive as KDB, but KDB also has a lot of key passes through corners and crossing.
Its obviously not a bad thing if hes the best AM in the league...
Well thats a useless suggestion. You say its arguable he's more talented which suggests you know it can be argued the other way. So essentially you typed some words and said nothing.
And again if you only concentrate on attack you're missing the kind of player Maddison is now. Even more-so when we include stats from left wing where Grealish has been at his best this season and is clearly more effective than Maddison is.
He isnt just an attacking player, he's more like a lightweight Vidal now, a ball winner who can also create and score goals. If he wasnt doing a defensive duty and helping Ndidi win the ball, then he'd be more free to concentrate on just making key passes like he did last season and why he created more. He's playing for the team instead of himself and just being an attacking player.
Hah, lightweight Vidal? Vidal was much deeper.
First, nobody has ever claimed that Maddison is not very good or that his numbers is not great.I have argued that Grealish numbers as a CM, all things taken into account, is just as impressive and maybe even more.
Second, how can you claim his numbers is not inflated by corners, being compared to Grealish (who was the topic, not KdB), when one third of his key passes are from corners?
I have no idea what you're talking about. What questions did I ask? I disagreed with your assertion that Maddison is a CM/number 8 and Grealish a winger. They are very similar players, capable of operating in similar roles.
I don't research statistics because they're not that relevant in football, certainly less so than other sports. Analysing statistics without having the context of watching games makes it really easy to misinterpret them. Something that you have proven in your last few posts.
There's an interesting article that touches upon Graelish on statsbomb for those interested
Wrong. Your assumptions are worse than not watching football - what a hypocrite. If you're going to cite someone for "not watching football matches" then you're going to need to watch them watch football matches, else you'll be wrong like you are here. You asked some questions at the end of the last post, something that can easily be answered if you bothered to look into it at all. Clearly you don't care so its a waste of time replying to you.
Another assist...