Jack Grealish | Man City

Good player whose improved as the seasons ensued but he isn't a class player for me and not worth £100m.

Imagine a player like Vinicius in that City team would make them unstoppable. Grealish has been really impressive lately though and way ahead of Foden, whose really underdeveloped in my opinion.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Of course there’s an argument to be had about it.
In pure trophy terms Ferguson is way out ahead but the number of seasons he was at the helm has to be factored in as does the quality of opposition faced and resources give to the coach.
Guardiola has a far higher major trophies per season average than Ferguson.
I‘m not saying one of those two is better than the other (in my opinion they both have area where they best the other which makes a definitive answer virtually impossible) but to say that there’s no argument is just blind hero worship of Ferguson on your part
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A big issue for Pep is that the vast majority of his career and success is now under two huge cheating clouds. Everything he achieved with Barca now looks like they were basically bribing the refs to favour them, and City have been cooking the books to allow them to gather a group of players that they wouldn't have otherwise been able to get. The only thing that isn't under a cloud is his time at Bayern, and he didn't do anything there that the managers both before and after him he did.

With the right set of players he can get them playing wonderful football. But how much can he really achieve on a level playing field?
 
gredanica said:
literally the best manager of all time, there really isn't an argument tbh
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Yeah, you are right.

The club sponsored refereeing neutrality and club sponsored financial doping really moves him away from that top bracket. All he really has that might be clean are those few that he won at Bayern, even then the managers before and after him actually won more than him.

Not even an argument to be had.
 
The Barcelona Bribing seems to effect how Guardiola is seen but not Messi :rolleyes:
 
MadDogg said:
A big issue for Pep is that the vast majority of his career and success is now under two huge cheating clouds. Everything he achieved with Barca now looks like they were basically bribing the refs to favour them, and City have been cooking the books to allow them to gather a group of players that they wouldn't have otherwise been able to get. The only thing that isn't under a cloud is his time at Bayern, and he didn't do anything there that the managers both before and after him he did.

With the right set of players he can get them playing wonderful football. But how much can he really achieve on a level playing field?
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Mate you can throw all the whataboutery you like about Pep into the mix the same as a blinkered Pep fan boy would about some of the rumours about Ferguson but nobody's going to do that on here are they?
Once again I'm not saying that one is better than the other. They both have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Shall we return this thread to discussing Jack Grealish?
 
gredanica said:
So I don't want to make a big deal of this because this is obviously a Man Utd forum and I know Man Utd fans are sensitive about this subject since they want to believe that SAF Is a better manager than Guardiola (even though objectively Guardiola is #1 of all time and SAF fits into the top 5)

But....

The narrative on this forum is Guardiola is a chequebook manager and if you read back to the first 50 pages of this thread its filled with criticism about how City overpaid for Grealish ("because oil") just because they could, and how "he would have done better at any other team", and that last season his talents were being wasted because Pep was trying to turn him from a maverick into a "systems player" and this ruined all his talents. Literally every single aspect of the Grealish sighing has been slated here

And yet..

Fast forward a year and it turns out that Guardiola knew exactly what he was buying, and once the "maverick" elements had been restrained, he turned into literally the perfect player for city. Other than Haaland, he is clearly their best attacking player and you were all wrong.

At what point do you just have to admit that Pep knows exactly the players he wants and is capable of moulding players into changing their entire style to fit his vision, and that this actually does seem to work out?

literally the best manager of all time, there really isn't an argument tbh

compare that to literal shit tier players like Sancho and possibly Antony (who many on here would have claimed here were better than Grealish 6 months ago) and you just have to laugh beyond believe. I mean I do get that's unfair because Antony might turn out well, but anyone who ever thought that a Championship level player like Sancho was even close to Grealish shouldn't be allowed to talk about football ever again.
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Wow, you’re quite the Pep fan. Credit to him for his role in building that great era at Barca. Along with the manager who won the Champions League five years before Pep took over, and the two managers who won it after Pep left. And credit most of all, of course, to one Lionel Messi.

Pep has spent a total of 11 seasons at Bayern and City without winning a single Champions League title. That should scarcely be possible, given the resources at hand. But he’s been a great servant to the sportswashing project at City, without a doubt.

I look forward to Pep’s amazing work at Aberdeen. Will be fun to watch.
 
MadDogg said:
A big issue for Pep is that the vast majority of his career and success is now under two huge cheating clouds. Everything he achieved with Barca now looks like they were basically bribing the refs to favour them, and City have been cooking the books to allow them to gather a group of players that they wouldn't have otherwise been able to get. The only thing that isn't under a cloud is his time at Bayern, and he didn't do anything there that the managers both before and after him he did.

With the right set of players he can get them playing wonderful football. But how much can he really achieve on a level playing field?
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Exactly. Put Pep into Klopps shoes in 2015 and does he build as a good a team that Liverpool did? I doubt it.

On Grealish, it's no surprise he's playing well. Anyone who actually watched Villa knows how good he was.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Of course there’s an argument to be had about it.
In pure trophy terms Ferguson is way out ahead but the number of seasons he was at the helm has to be factored in as does the quality of opposition faced and resources give to the coach.
Guardiola has a far higher major trophies per season average than Ferguson.
I‘m not saying one of those two is better than the other (in my opinion they both have area where they best the other which makes a definitive answer virtually impossible) but to say that there’s no argument is just blind hero worship of Ferguson on your part
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History will probably fade away context, clubs, opposition, money, conditions, etc.
At the end it will only matter the trophies won, obviously we are talking about 2 of the best, if Pep maintains his current ratio of winning he will probably surpass SAF.

Hammondo said:
He's not far off already.
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I know and I don't like it, but until he reaches 50 trophies I guess we already know who's the best.
 
He's been one of the best players in the league this season but going a bit under the radar.
 
fergiewherearethou said:
History will probably fade away context, clubs, opposition, money, conditions, etc.
At the end it will only matter the trophies won, obviously we are talking about 2 of the best, if Pep maintains his current ratio of winning he will probably surpass SAF.



I know and I don't like it, but until he reaches 50 trophies I guess we already know who's the best.
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Well he's still young, has as many champions leagues and is 3 off the same league titles. These are the trophies that really matter, he should smash that.
 
Reading the last few pages seems like Grealish has morphed into Pep.

I never knew Grealish had taken his coaching badges, but now he is the greatest manager of all time…time for a thread title change.
 
Absolutely pathetic dive today but has not been mentioned by any non-United fans. Weird.
 
There were people on the cafe who called him the modern day Ronaldinho.

Wonder if they'll ever apologize for that blasphemy.
 
What a pointless player, what does he actually do except win fouls? Easily closed in pretty much every game in last month or so.

He is also extremely unlikeable, probably one of the most unlikeable players in Europe.
 
Amar__ said:
What a pointless player, what does he actually do except win fouls? Easily closed in pretty much every game in last month or so.

He is also extremely unlikeable, probably one of the most unlikeable players in Europe.
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He was one of their best players this season. Agree on the not very likeable part though.
 
Amar__ said:
What a pointless player, what does he actually do except win fouls? Easily closed in pretty much every game in last month or so.

He is also extremely unlikeable, probably one of the most unlikeable players in Europe.
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Huh? He was great against Madrid, which I'm pretty sure was in the last month.

Their team performances haven't particularly been great in the finals. Haaland has been pretty poor in them, also.
 
Amar__ said:
He wasn't even in their best top5 players.
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I don't think so. He's certainly not worth his 100M price tag but he was a key player for them this season. Football is not always about goals.
 
Lecland07 said:
Huh? He was great against Madrid, which I'm pretty sure was in the last month.

Their team performances haven't particularly been great in the finals. Haaland has been pretty poor in them, also.
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He was far from great, he had one very good half game against them over 180 minutes. What would you call Bernardo if he was great?
 
That_Bloke said:
I don't think so. He's certainly not worth his 100M price tag but he was a key player for them this season. Football is not always about goals.
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It is. City literally won the game because their only decent shot of the game came in, while Inter had Lukaku up front missing.
 
He's alright but very much a cog in the machine. Would have more expression in his game elsewhere.
 
Definition of a hanger-on.

Won the treble without doing anything apart from a few laughs on social media.
 
He’s not worth anywhere near what they paid
 
Lecland07 said:
The whole second leg, he toyed with the Madrid right back.
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And what did he actually do in that game except win fouls? He hardly created anything apart from being involved in the first goal I think?
 
Amar__ said:
And what did he actually do in that game except win fouls? He hardly created anything apart from being involved in the first goal I think?
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Didn't he cross the ball for Haaland's header, which he should have scored? That was arguably their best chance of the game.
 
zaafi said:
Would this City team be any worse with Sterling in it instead of Grealish?
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Sterling is pretty poor now, so they would be worse. He also doesn't fit the style.

Grealish is far more sound in possession; he is also much better at defending.
 
Diving Cnut. Just suits the style of this city team. Unlikable. Not particularly productive. But retains the ball. That’s all he needs to do. Let Kev do the rest
 
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