Jack Grealish | Man City

[amolbhatia50k]

For me they just bought the wrong player. They just bought an inferior version of Foden & Silva (right footed one though). But they were already stacked with this type of player because Mahrez is also quite similar but a better scorer.

They still haven't replaced Leroy Sane, who for me was a vital cog in the 17/18 team. That's the profile of wide attacker they should have targeted

Agreed. Sane provided them an explosiveness they haven't had since. I think someone like Gnabry at his best, who is an explosive goalthreat from out wide is what they should have gone for in summer of 2021.

 

[jesperjaap]

Grealish a flop, SAncho settling in. I think Grealish has been better than Sancho this season, he just doesnt look to have freedom and is a bit within himself. Only a flop due to the cost, he has been ok and will get better I feel. Is an excellent player had a lot of hype, but he has ability, wouldnt write off his move yet at all

 

[crossy1686]

Most of us said when he joined City he would struggle. He’s not a player you sign and then take away his creativity and force to play to a rigid system, imagine someone like Gazza or Rooney in this City system? They’d also struggle

 

[Wumminator]

Most of us said when he joined City he would struggle. He’s not a player you sign and then take away his creativity and force to play to a rigid system, imagine someone like Gazza or Rooney in this City system? They’d also struggle

Most of red cafe were assuredly not saying that.

 

[crossy1686]

Most of red cafe were assuredly not saying that.

Maybe it was just my social circle then? I feel like everyone I spoke to tipped him to struggle.

 

[roonster09]

Most of us said when he joined City he would struggle. He’s not a player you sign and then take away his creativity and force to play to a rigid system, imagine someone like Gazza or Rooney in this City system? They’d also struggle

Like many have mentioned throughout this thread, players take time to adapt to Pep system, it's a long contract and have plenty of time to prove his worth to the team.

 

[crossy1686]

Like many have mentioned throughout this thread, players take time to adapt to Pep system, it's a long contract and have plenty of time to prove his worth to the team.

I don't think Jack has the required levels of discipline or general smarts to fully integrate into a Pep system. He'll get fed up and leave in a couple of years instead, or Pep will be gone by then.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I have been sceptical of Grealish's ability to play in a Guardiola side but there is a rational argument for why it won't be a surprise to see Grealish come good next season. I remember an interview with him where he said that Pep and the staff were showing him stats where he has been a leading player this season and therefore why his modest headline stats of goals and assists shouldn't worry him too much.

The tweet below shows how he's been in the top 10% in Europe for both link up play and threat creation.



The link below shows that his expected assist numbers are in the 97th percentile for the league this season whilst his actual assists are in the 40th. This means that while he's one of the best in the league at creating goalscoring chances the players that he is creating for have underperformed. His xA would only give him 2 more assists with the minutes he's played but projected across a full season it would give him 10 which would put him joint 3rd in overall total this year. The report also shows how he top the stats with progression, passing and shot creating actions.

The big negatives are his finishing and defensive stats.

https://fbref.com/en/players/b0b4fd3e/scout/11160/Jack-Grealish-Scouting-Report

 

[MUW4Eva]

I have been sceptical of Grealish's ability to play in a Guardiola side but there is a rational argument for why it won't be a surprise to see Grealish come good next season. I remember an interview with him where he said that Pep and the staff were showing him stats where he has been a leading player this season and therefore why his modest headline stats of goals and assists shouldn't worry him too much.

The tweet below shows how he's been in the top 10% in Europe for both link up play and threat creation.



The link below shows that his expected assist numbers are in the 97th percentile for the league this season whilst his actual assists are in the 40th. This means that while he's one of the best in the league at creating goalscoring chances the players that he is creating for have underperformed. His xA would only give him 2 more assists with the minutes he's played but projected across a full season it would give him 10 which would put him joint 3rd in overall total this year. The report also shows how he top the stats with progression, passing and shot creating actions.

The big negatives are his finishing and defensive stats.

https://fbref.com/en/players/b0b4fd3e/scout/11160/Jack-Grealish-Scouting-Report

How can anyone project across a whole season, when Pep rotates his midfield so often, so Grealish's, are his stats, there is no projection to do.

 

[Fortitude]

Think Grealish has been marginalised at City, which begs the question of why bother buy him if, by some distance, he isn't the player you want him to be?

Pep wants Grealish... with a personality transplant?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

How can anyone project across a whole season, when Pep rotates his midfield so often, so Grealish's, are his stats, there is no projection to do.

It's to illustrate the level at which he is creating chances on a per 90 minute basis. It has no consequence beyond that.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Think Grealish has been marginalised at City, which begs the question of why bother buy him if, by some distance, he isn't the player you want him to be?

Pep wants Grealish... with a personality transplant?

It felt like they brought him because they couldn't get the right striker, couldn't find many players that would really improve their team and just felt like they had to do something.

It was a really weird signing from the start.

 

[MUW4Eva]

It's to illustrate the level at which he is creating chances on a per 90 minute basis. It has no consequence beyond that.

I don't get made up stats at the end of a season, by all means do this at the start of a season, but not at the end.
His stats for this season, are what they actually are, not what someone else pretends they are, or perhaps might want them to be.

 

[Fortitude]

It felt like they brought him because they couldn't get the right striker, couldn't find many players that would really improve their team and just felt like they had to do something.

It was a really weird signing from the start.

Well that'd be crazy, but not improbable when money is no object.

What's weird to me is, let's say he becomes a Pep player next season and comes good - why not cut out the middleman and just get a Pep player from the outset?

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Well that'd be crazy, but not improbable when money is no object.

What's weird to me is, let's say he becomes a Pep player next season and comes good - why not cut out the middleman and just get a Pep player from the outset?

I sometimes feel like Pep has occasional moments where he just wants to be a bit weird and out there. Maybe he wanted to play him as a false 9 or in goal to prove what a genius he is again.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I don't get made up stats at the end of a season, by all means do this at the start of a season, but not at the end.
His stats for this season, are what they actually are, not what someone else pretends they are, or perhaps might want them to be.

It not a made up stat. It's an illustration drawn from his actual stats. It isn't a complicated concept. Disregard if it is causing some confusion for you. Look at his actual stats which make the same point and say that he creates more key passes than any other player in the league per 90 and that he's in the 97th percentile for xA i.e. that perhaps counter intuitively for some he has actually been effective on the pitch for City this season, at least in this regard.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I think Pedri was the player Pep would've preferred over Grealish had the young Spaniard not made it fundamentally clear early on that his future lies at the Nou Camp.

 

[Bebestation]

Wonder if he will be better next season when they get a striker like Haaland to score some goals for them than say Grealish should do as an inverted forward amongst Mahrez and Sterling.

 

[Cassidy]

Bernado Silva I also remember having a very off season at City, sometimes it take a while to adapt to what Pep wants.

 

[Pirlo'sBeard]

Bernado Silva I also remember having a very off season at City, sometimes it take a while to adapt to what Pep wants.

Rodri also.

Looked poor in his first season.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Rodri also.

Looked poor in his first season.

Cancelo as well. Spent a lot of his first season on the bench.

 

[MUW4Eva]

It not a made up stat. It's an illustration drawn from his actual stats. It isn't a complicated concept. Disregard if it is causing some confusion for you. Look at his actual stats which make the same point and say that he creates more key passes than any other player in the league per 90 and that he's in the 97th percentile for xA i.e. that perhaps counter intuitively for some he has actually been effective on the pitch for City this season, at least in this regard.

All of this, if player A did this over a longer period then stat B would change malarkey, is well all a bit meaningless really, as football just doesn't work like that, you can't extrapolate anything, football is too fluid a game, to full of chance.

So stats are just what they actually are, making up false stats all seems a bit irrelevant and incorrect to me.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

All of this, if player A did this over a longer period then stat B would change malarkey, is well all a bit meaningless really, as football just doesn't work like that, you can't extrapolate anything, football is too fluid a game, to full of chance.

So stats are just what they actually are, making up false stats all seems a bit irrelevant and incorrect to me.

If I said that Grealish really got 10 assists then I would be making up stats. I did not say that. I projected his per 90 numbers over a 38 game season as an illustration. It's a simple concept and in no way misleading.

 

[MUW4Eva]

If I said that Grealish really got 10 assists then I would be making up stats. I did not say that. I projected his per 90 numbers over a 38 game season as an illustration. It's a simple concept and in no way misleading.

But he hasn't played 90 mins, and nor has he played 38 games, only goalkeepers, and even then that is not always the case, play the full 90 mins over a full season.

So why project something that (a) hasn't happened, and (b) will never ever happen??
Because I can say pretty confidently that Grealish will never play the full 90 mins in every single league game for City during his time there.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

But he hasn't played 90 mins, and nor has he played 38 games, only goalkeepers, and even then that is not always the case, play the full 90 mins over a full season.

So why project something that (a) hasn't happened, and (b) will never ever happen??
Because I can say pretty confidently that Grealish will never play the full 90 mins in every single league game for City during his time there.

It's an illustration. If it's really making your brain hurt that much.

These are the best players in the league (that have significant appearances) this season for xA.

1. KDB 0.36 xA per 90
2. TAA 0.35 xA per 90
3. Salah 0.34 xA per 90
4. Eriksen 0.30 xA per 90
5. Grealish 0.29 xA per 90

 

[padr81]

Stones, Cancelo, Rodri, Bernardo, Mahrez, Sterling, Ake were all flops coming to the end of their first season under Pep too.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Stones, Cancelo, Rodri, Bernardo, Mahrez, Sterling, Ake were all flops coming to the end of their first season under Pep too.

True. We all tend to laugh at City signings until the second year when they come good. Has Ake actually been good you though?

On Grealish my issue with him is that he just seems to be an odd fit as City for me need someone more explosive out wide (like peak Sane) whereas Grealish is in the mould of your other player but with a twist. Maybe he'll improve next year and combine well with Haaland.

 

[MUW4Eva]

It's an illustration. If it's really making your brain hurt that much.

These are the best players in the league (that have significant appearances) this season for xA.

1. KDB 0.36 xA per 90
2. TAA 0.35 xA per 90
3. Salah 0.34 xA per 90
4. Eriksen 0.30 xA per 90
5. Grealish 0.29 xA per 90

Why is there a need for an illustration, when such an illustration isn't based in anything like reality??
It isn't realistic to expect him, or anyone on that list to play 90 mins in 38 games.

 

[padr81]

True. We all tend to laugh at City signings until the second year when they come good. Has Ake actually been good you though?

On Grealish my issue with him is that he just seems to be an odd fit as City for me need someone more explosive out wide (like peak Sane) whereas Grealish is in the mould of your other player but with a twist. Maybe he'll improve next year and combine well with Haaland.

Ake's been really good this season when called upon.

Grealish work ethic will decide whether he adapts or not I think. He has the skill I'm just not sure he has the desire to change how he plays.

I do feel he's been better than his stats suggest but still doesn't look worth the fee. He'll be judged on end product though so that has to improve. 9 contributions this season if he can improve that to 16-20 he'll be grand.

 

[mu4c_20le]

It not a made up stat. It's an illustration drawn from his actual stats. It isn't a complicated concept. Disregard if it is causing some confusion for you. Look at his actual stats which make the same point and say that he creates more key passes than any other player in the league per 90 and that he's in the 97th percentile for xA i.e. that perhaps counter intuitively for some he has actually been effective on the pitch for City this season, at least in this regard.

Where are his actual stats? I'd rather look at the numbers than some diagram drawn up by a nobody. And then we need to look at the amount of minutes and position played. Much more useful than some MS office graph made by someone bored at work.

 

[tenpoless]

A combination of Beckham and Ronaldinho by the way.

 

[harms]

Well that'd be crazy, but not improbable when money is no object.

What's weird to me is, let's say he becomes a Pep player next season and comes good - why not cut out the middleman and just get a Pep player from the outset?

Which one would that be? Look at how important Mahrez is for them… or Walker.

 

[MUW4Eva]

Where are his actual stats? I'd rather look at the numbers than some diagram drawn up by a nobody. And then we need to look at the amount of minutes and position played. Much more useful than some MS office graph made by someone bored at work.

2 goals, 3 assists in the league this season, in 24 appearances are his actual stats, rather this made up rubbish/nonsense.

All of this xg, xa malarkey is just pointless guff, when the only thing that matters is what actually has happened, what the actual stats are.

 

[redshaw]

A combination of Beckham and Ronaldinho by the way.

Probably closer to Maddison and Cantwell combination

 

[Marwood]

I'd say the big difference between Grealish and those other names mentioned who struggled at first is competition for places.

Rodri only had an ageing Fernandinho in front of him. Cancelo has to only displace Zinchenko etc etc.

Feels like Grealish has a lot more top class players competing for his spot.

So will he get the space to bed in?

Plus his natural style seems less suited to Pep than the others. He's probably got the greatest change to make.

 

[Fortitude]

Which one would that be? Look at how important Mahrez is for them… or Walker.

Someone already playing the kind of selfless, less individualistic football Pep wants in his midfielders. It'd be the scouting department's job to say whom, but it's odd when spending so much to then get a player who needs to be rebuilt from scratch.

Whether it works out down the road - which it might - isn't what I'd query, unless we're saying all Pep signings must take a season to be assimilated, which would be a different discussion.

 

[totaalvoetbal]

Well that'd be crazy, but not improbable when money is no object.

What's weird to me is, let's say he becomes a Pep player next season and comes good - why not cut out the middleman and just get a Pep player from the outset?

The only "true" Pep Guardiola players are players from La Masia or that come from canteras that use positional play. The rest have to adapt. Everyone has gone through it.

 

[Fortitude]

The only "true" Pep Guardiola players are players from La Masia or that come from canteras that use positional play. The rest have to adapt. Everyone has gone through it.

If we take it to the conclusion, sure, but there are selfless, considered players dotted around, perhaps uninformed of the minutiae, but certainly considerably further down the path than a maverick like Grealish who has made his name essentially doing what he wants to great plaudits. Now, everything he is and stands for needs to be stripped bare, which is quite strange, to me at least.

 

[MUW4Eva]

If we take it to the conclusion, sure, but there are selfless, considered players dotted around, perhaps uninformed of the minutiae, but certainly considerably further down the path than a maverick like Grealish who has made his name essentially doing what he wants to great plaudits. Now, everything he is and stands for needs to be stripped bare, which is quite strange, to me at least.

It reminds me a bit of Joe Cole and Jose, when Cole joined Chelsea, Jose tried to change him completely from the fun flair player that he was, to this more hard working team player, for me, Cole eas never the same, I can see Grealish following a similar path under Pep.

 

[harms]

Someone already playing the kind of selfless, less individualistic football Pep wants in his midfielders. It'd be the scouting department's job to say whom, but it's odd when spending so much to then get a player who needs to be rebuilt from scratch.

Whether it works out down the road - which it might - isn't what I'd query, unless we're saying all Pep signings must take a season to be assimilated, which would be a different discussion.

It’s a bit odd to say “why don’t they sign someone, essentially, better” without offering any alternative. Which player of comparable talent was available that would have no issues adapting to Pep’s system from the get-go?

He was looking for a player that was offering a completely different skill-set than his other, already available options. He’s got one. Whenever he will adapt or not is another question, but, considering a very apparent trend with Pep’s signings, it’s not that unlikely that we’ll see a completely different player next season.