ITT: Poster who doesn’t want to waste emotion returns with emotional buzzfeed essay insulting fans

I didn't read the OP and not going to, but I think I already regret clicking the 'Show ignored content.' just to see this thread.
 
Raees said:
Simplistic way of trying to paint anyone who is unsupportive of Jose’s project as a ‘fair-weather’ fan.

Why no boycott under Moyes or LVG where the football was as bad or where the results were actually more terrible?

The difference is that those two managers were incompetent but they weren’t abusing their position of responsibility. The playing style they both utilised whilst here wasn’t strictly in line with our values etc but off the pitch they didn’t disgrace the club or actively seek to create divides within the club (not to the same extent). End of the day the manager in many ways becomes the personification of the club especially a club like this where we give managers a huge say on the actions of the club.

Most managers stick to football stuff and don’t really dabble in the media and play politics - Jose does that. Fans from other clubs will tell you that Jose has previous in doing so, which makes him unique. See @carvajal post on his time at Madrid where he had fans turning on each other.

That’s why it isn’t a normal situation of just sit tight, keep supporting the club and hoping results come in and things turn around. He’s poison and I cannot actively support the club getting results - when each result keeps him in longer but the club becomes more and more of a laughing stock with his antics and players who have the potential to be great players here end up walking away. I don’t see how that is being a good supporter.

Being an England fan for example, we are used to years of failure and we’ve had years of incompetence pre the recent World Cup campaign. No need to boycott though, as everyone in the role has tried their best and even though the football has been shite, still never missed a game or stopped supporting. I’m not the one here who is fussed about results or ‘winning’. Yes winning is nice and a bonus, but ultimately you support a club because something about it connects with you whether it’s because it’s your local club, your dad supported them etc. When someone is abusing the very thing you care about (and I feel post Sevilla - Jose has especially during pre season almost tried to tank it with some of his comments and seems more concerned about the preservation of his legacy than the well-being of the club) how can I justify supporting that any longer.
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I get the gist of your post (though not the arguments you use to justify it).

You're not happy with Jose/the way he portrays the club.... I'm not particularly either but I think it's not all on him and the players are getting an easy ride.

But.... you can't pick and choose when you support United (or any club for that matter). I thought Dave Sexton was an idiot but I never stopped going. imo, Moyes was much worse than Jose and while I wanted him out with every fibre of my body, I still watched them, listened when I couldn't go, read the reports after, etc.

Whatever Jose does/says, whatever the media says, whatever Ed does/doesn't do..... whatever fullstop, support them or don't but don't say you want some sabbatical and you'll come back if YOU decide you like the next manager and/or style of play. It's all or nothing.
 
So, we are in 2018 and we are still discussing about "Good, positive football". Funny, considering that (as a 31 year old outsider) i've never considered United as anything close to a ballet of offensive football. The best SAF years were esentially a squad with amazingly good players, with strong and competitive personalities and fully aligned with the manager's view. The same SAF has said before that he doesn't believe in "football brands".

This just to focus on something debatable, in order to avoid the Reich, Trumpism and/or Toxic Masculinity camps... I could be considered as a Mourinho In but heck, there are way better arguments against Mourinho than the ones "presented" here.
 
I think what happened to this poster is he got accustomed to the fantastic football we played during the Fergie era and now like all of us he has been forced to endure 5 seasons of gashtastic football under Moyes LVG and Jose. However it has hit him harder than he could ever imagine and it all led to a full blown meltdown of calamitous proportions. I have never seen the words rednecks and masculinity uttered that many times on a forum in my life :lol:

OP, you need a break from football my friend. When it has gotten to the point where you are so angry you end up making a post like this I think it shows I'm right. Take a break from football and calm yourself. :lol::lol::lol:
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
I get the gist of your post (though not the arguments you use to justify it).

You're not happy with Jose/the way he portrays the club.... I'm not particularly either but I think it's not all on him and the players are getting an easy ride.

But.... you can't pick and choose when you support United (or any club for that matter). I thought Dave Sexton was an idiot but I never stopped going. imo, Moyes was much worse than Jose and while I wanted him out with every fibre of my body, I still watched them, listened when I couldn't go, read the reports after, etc.

Whatever Jose does/says, whatever the media says, whatever Ed does/doesn't do..... whatever fullstop, support them or don't but don't say you want some sabbatical and you'll come back if YOU decide you like the next manager and/or style of play. It's all or nothing.
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And so am I, just watching it more as a passive observer rather than being 'worried' about the result. Doesn't stop me from being worried about the club and it's well-being. Perhaps the phrase boycotting the club is the wrong one to use, as if it was a true boycott of the club.. I wouldn't watch games etc. What I am trying to say is that if I feel we have a manager who is deliberately trying to tank it, and secure a pay off for himself by getting himself sacked - I can no longer support that project, and Jose has previous for doing that at clubs. There have been reports that his team talks have been getting more and more distant, and his entire mood and words to the media during pre-season where of someone who wanted to kill the confidence of his squad. It came across as sabotage. Maybe he too is caught up in whether he wants to get paid off or stick in and do a good job, but he's crossed the line enough times that for me there is no going back. That is why I am adamant that this is very different (from my own perspective admittedly) to a normal, manager doing badly situation and just sticking by the side. He's poisonous and he causes fractions. 99% of managers in the game, do not have that in their personality. That is why no matter who we get next, and even if we continue to go into freefall.. I would never stop supporting the side, like I feel obliged to do here.
 
And I’m not against Mourinho out, just in the current stage who else do we go for? We as a club can’t afford another bad appointment, I would prefer to watch better football but even under Fergie the early football was dire (as well as at the end of his tenure). We need to bring back the winning mentality and as unsure as I am that Mourinho is the man I don’t have a clue who could be.
 
Lord Megadrive said:
And I’m not against Mourinho out, just in the current stage who else do we go for? We as a club can’t afford another bad appointment, I would prefer to watch better football but even under Fergie the early football was dire (as well as at the end of his tenure). We need to bring back the winning mentality and as unsure as I am that Mourinho is the man I don’t have a clue who could be.
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People keep saying this but United need to have someone in place who can put a team together and play an effective, cohesive brand of football. Then the next step is to turn that into a winning brand of football. We seem to be trying to skip to the winning when the foundations are shaky. Also the argument, we can't risk another bad appointment is silly. It took many managerial appointments until we got Fergie after Busby, it took time but we eventually got there. The size of the club, its revenue and its fanbase ensures that eventually we will get it right, we shouldn't just hold on to managers for the sake of being patient and waiting until we fall out of the top 4.
 
Raees said:
People keep saying this but United need to have someone in place who can put a team together and play an effective, cohesive brand of football. Then the next step is to turn that into a winning brand of football. We seem to be trying to skip to the winning when the foundations are shaky. Also the argument, we can't risk another bad appointment is silly. It took many managerial appointments until we got Fergie after Busby, it took time but we eventually got there. The size of the club, its revenue and its fanbase ensures that eventually we will get it right, we shouldn't just hold on to managers for the sake of being patient and waiting until we fall out of the top 4.
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I hate to say it but Liverpool were a bigger club in the 70’s and 80’s and because of the winning probably had healthier finances (although there was a smaller gap between the bigger and small clubs back then) and look at where they are, haven’t won the league since 1990, and a small handful of trophies since then. And in the supposed mess we are in we have won more since great man has retired than they have. I don’t subscribe to the “we’ll get it right eventually” line.
 
Lord Megadrive said:
I hate to say it but Liverpool were a bigger club in the 70’s and 80’s and because of the winning probably had healthier finances (although there was a smaller gap between the bigger and small clubs back then) and look at where they are, haven’t won the league since 1990, and a small handful of trophies since then. And in the supposed mess we are in we have won more since great man has retired than they have. I don’t subscribe to the “we’ll get it right eventually” line.
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They where nowhere near as big, they might have been as prestigious but there was no club on the planet in the 70's and 80's that were nearly as large financially or culturally. The game has changed.

It depends what "getting it right" means, will we ever see a sustained period of dominance like we did under Sir Alex? Probably not in our life time.
 
Lord Megadrive said:
I hate to say it but Liverpool were a bigger club in the 70’s and 80’s and because of the winning probably had healthier finances (although there was a smaller gap between the bigger and small clubs back then) and look at where they are, haven’t won the league since 1990, and a small handful of trophies since then. And in the supposed mess we are in we have won more since great man has retired than they have. I don’t subscribe to the “we’ll get it right eventually” line.
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Agreed, but if you look at why Liverpool went into decline, it is because they were stuck in the 80's with their approach. They kept giving the job to ex-Liverpool players or those who were in the 'boot room'. That meant outside developments in the game were viewed with suspicion, they became inwards looking and narrow-minded. This in conjunction with a lack of identity of what they wanted the club to be about going forwards, what type of players they envisioned to be part of Liverpool.

The quality of players being signed also didn't help, and the way the club lacked ruthlessness in binning of players who weren't upto the mark. I don't think there can be exact parallels drawn to our situation, as we have tried to get managers from outside the club, but we have signed three back to back managers who you can say are behind the curve of modern day coaching developments and man-management styles.

Just like they appointed managers brought up on 'yesterdays' football, we have kind of done the same. Instead of being trend-setters, we are not even trend-followers at this moment in time. We are also becoming more and more bitter about rival's progressing, instead of trying to figure out what is working at the top end of the european game and trying to imitate it (albeit with our own distinctive tweaks). Liverpool are after all this time, looking at the moment, like a team who are well set for the modern game, so yes it took them fecking ages but they're there and even in that big period of decline, they finished runners up in PL on several occasions, won some cups and even a CL, almost three (06/07 and 17/18), so I do think we will get there eventually but we must not be afraid to be ruthless throughout the process if it calls for it.
 
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I agree with the message, i doubt anyone truly disagrees deep down. That Jose isnt the right man for much longer isnt something really new. Some wording is a bit provocative, but it is not Jose's only fault. The club as a whole isnt moving into the right direction and lack modernity. We can hire a manager for a few years and be successful, but be shit again once we appoint another manager. Our fluctuations between good and bad cant rely on a manager alone, we lack the structure for the continuity that was provided by Sir Alex previously and is now gone. Unless we find another genius for decades, we will have massive slumps in between successful and not successful managers. We need to implement a certain structure to be able to keep ourselves relatively successful, even if the season isnt the greatest. We dont have that currently and if our manager has a bad season or meltdown, there is no limit to catch us form the free fall. Create the best possible environment for our managers and players to thrive in is what i am missing, with a clear direction of style we want to implement. I dont think you should be angry with Jose, but more with the club for hiring him. We all knew what we would get, at the latest after Sevilla.
 
Sassy Colin said:
It looks a lot shorter on a PC rather than on a phone.
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This must be your phone then. :D

56c8b-dom_joly_phone.jpg
 
I don't really like the apparently revamped thread title. What about going with

Mourinho Out: The Intercontinental Socio-Political Context You May Not Have Considered Before.

And then hiding it away where no one has to read it.
 
Read part of it. Reminded me of that BBC documentary of world war 2. The one with the tank driving through the water in the opening with the epic music.

It became clear that the allies where no match for the onslaught of the wehrmachts blitzkrieg tactics BABABABAAAAAAAAAA.

I give up half way through though.

TL;DR: Mou out?
 
izec said:
I agree with the message, i doubt anyone truly disagrees deep down. That Jose isnt the right man for much longer isnt something really new. Some wording is a bit provocative, but it is not Jose's only fault. The club as a whole isnt moving into the right direction and lack modernity. We can hire a manager for a few years and be successful, but be shit again once we appoint another manager. Our fluctuations between good and bad cant rely on a manager alone, we lack the structure for the continuity that was provided by Sir Alex previously and is now gone. Unless we find another genius for decades, we will have massive slumps in between successful and not successful managers. We need to implement a certain structure to be able to keep ourselves relatively successful, even if the season isnt the greatest. We dont have that currently and if our manager has a bad season or meltdown, there is no limit to catch us form the free fall. Create the best possible environment for our managers and players to thrive in is what i am missing, with a clear direction of style we want to implement. I dont think you should be angry with Jose, but more with the club for hiring him. We all knew what we would get, at the latest after Sevilla.
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Wow i mean i thought i disagreed but when i dived deep down as you say it totally changed things for me. Suddenly i realised i too only support united because of a brand of football and that i didn't actually care about anything else all along.

It's all so clear now, all those idiot fans supporting their teams, what suckers.
 
Here I am grinding for my final like and promotion, and I come here and see moronic shite like this in it’s own thread!

There must be a redcafe goes into meltdown thread on Rawk now right ?
 
Football Maturity

90% of the football fans watch football match for entertainment, just like watching a movie. The big difference is Football is more personal than a movie. With a failed movie, we are outsiders, and easily brush it off with derision. A failed football match is a personal failure for the fans. It is this emotional connect that makes football more painful when we lose but also makes it more beautiful when we win.

While there was respite for fans of the pre-internet age (your 90s and pre-90s fans) as the opposition ridicule was limited only to match day visits in an Away game (That's why Derby games were special back in the days). As a result the fans had time to view football with more patience and maturity. They had the emotional respite to truly enjoy what was happening in the field and analyse it for what it was - good or bad. These fans, just as passionate as we are today, were considerably more mature than us.

With technology things have changed much for the fans. The opposition fans sit in your palm 24*7- they enter your heads at every break, taunt you and ridicule you almost all the time - thanks largely to your cell phones. Every loss is now an emotional trauma. Games are viewed for bragging rights. Bragging over results, bragging over styles, bragging over trophies, bragging all the time. That is why every time a team loses, without any objective consideration for the finer details behind the loss, your modern fans get emotionally triggered and often come out with unreal out-of-the-ass reasons to spread their contempt. It is understandable as there is really no emotional respite after a loss. This fear of constant ridicule is extremely personal and frustration is constantly penting up inside causing true emotional harm.When the results continue to go bad anybody is bound to break down emotionally, as seen by this post. The joy of a football game is truly lost on most of you.

As a liverpool fan since the Houllier days, I went through the dark ages under the Hicks/Gillet - Hodgson Era. While my initial thoughts were to rant at everybody, everything, finding stupid reasons at every corner desperately hoping for a change, like how most of the cafe fans here shouting Mourinho In, Mourinho Out, Style is crap, Players are crap, Board is crap, I am crap, You are crap, Crap is crap.. etc.. These fans (majority of them here in cafe) are badly hurt and are desperately hoping for a change without realizing any change (manager,board, players etc.) is just as likely to be harmful unless there is a change from the self and how you view the game.

My suggestion to you is Football Maturity. Enjoy the game. Care for the results without being worried about opposition ridicule. Be passionate without causing self harm. Be dejected not depressed. Success is a cycle it will come and go. Start enjoying football for the beautiful game it is.

When United played Tottenham this weekend, there was 90 mins of ebb and flow, between two world class managers trying to outwit each other tactically and 22 world class players fighting it out in the middle of the park. Enjoy it. Sad United Lost, but discuss thing objectively from a football point of view. It's a game after all and even in sadness enjoy it, that's what its meant to do, distract you from real life problems/sadness - an emotional entertainment.

This Raees Post feels like a man bitching about dumping his wife to the whole world after the bad sex he had with her last night.
My answer to you is -Your Wife doesn't care about it. World doesn't care about it. Only you will be left alone holding your dick. So It's not the end of the world, relax and move on.

[ If you like my post, I have also discussed about Jose Mourinho's performance and the United trouble in great detail in the Jose Mourinho performance thread. All Football discussions. Read it you will like it. Enjoy]
 
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Smores said:
Wow i mean i thought i disagreed but when i dived deep down as you say it totally changed things for me. Suddenly i realised i too only support united because of a brand of football and that i didn't actually care about anything else all along.

It's all so clear now, all those idiot fans supporting their teams, what suckers.
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It is not only about supporting United. You want them to do well, who doesnt. If you are used to winning, you want back to winning ways, asap. We can be fine with only supporting the club, but then you shouldnt be critical at any point if that is what its all about. His post about not backing the club is a bit too much, but i agreed on the part with Jose, his main message. If his protest is to not back United, that is his indiviual decision. Your post only has valuation if you didnt complain about our brand of football during Moyes or van Gaal, otherwise you are a hypocrite. When i watch United, i only care about our style and winning at that moment, not about anything else you think a fan should support United about. These things dont help us improve one bit
 
izec said:
It is not only about supporting United. You want them to do well, who doesnt. If you are used to winning, you want back to winning ways, asap. We can be fine with only supporting the club, but then you shouldnt be critical at any point if that is what its all about. His post about not backing the club is a bit too much, but i agreed on the part with Jose, his main message. If his protest is to not back United, that is his indiviual decision. Your post only has valuation if you didnt complain about our brand of football during Moyes or van Gaal, otherwise you are a hypocrite. When i watch United, i only care about our style and winning at that moment, not about anything else you think a fan should support United about. These things dont help us improve one bit
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Nope. You can quite easily support the club and criticise the manager/owners. The two are not the same.
 
Schmiznurf said:
I've also had family who were affected by World War 2, one of whom was tortured and bore a lifelong hatred towards a certain people because of it. I find your faux offence at my offence offensive.
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I'm not playing top trumps with you.
 
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