"It is simple. To do something, we need to sell players."

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
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https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/ckgyeve2qvdo

Clearly something must be done. This summer will be absolutely crucial and we need to strike gold on at least three positions; keeper, midfielder, striker

So the question becomes who do we sell?

Rashford, Casemiro, Antony are almost certain to leave with Sancho already gone but who are the truly valuable assets we have; Bruno is old and on high wages but we should be able to get some money for him, the real value though is in our two young talents; Garnacho and Mainoo. They both have potential, are at a great age and on relatively modest contracts. There would be clubs all over fighting for their signatures. Just compare the Rashford market( loans) to the Garnacho market ( 50-60 mil)

Now there is no club in the world apart from maybe Barcelona and Ajax whose fans and identity are attached to the youth players as much as Manchester United. The dilemma we face then is clear. With INEOS making cuts and raising prices if they sell our two gems to fund Amorims rebuild will you be okay with it? Keep in mind both haven't really nailed down a starting spot in Amorims system and its not clear they ever will( that's why i left Amad out of this discussion).

Would you sell Garnacho and/or Mainoo this summer and if INEOS does will you agree with their reasoning?
 
There isn't anyone in the squad I wouldn't sell bar Amad.
 
What's the point of selling a young player that has potential to be a first team regular for a punt on a player that may or may not work out?

Why did we have money in the past for players like cavani and sanchez and antony for 100million and now we have no money for a 50m player that will grow into a better player.

Recruitment has been poor, we've gone from expensive mercenary flops (Sancho, cavani etc) to overpriced yong n lernin's (hoiljund) and a few random expensive flops (onana, antony)

We need to focus on ensuring the players we sign have the right mentality as well as ability.
 
We'll have enough money to buy some players. The main focus should be ensuring we get it right. We need about 7 top players to be competitive again and I'd rather we get 1 of those this Summer and nobody else, as opposed to buying 7 duds as we always do. The budget constraints could actually work in our favour. I'm really hoping the new manager has an eye for talent as that was ETH's downfall - he was the worst of the lot for buying absolute shite including an awful keeper, that's why we are particularly crap right now.

Even if we are lingering in midtable this time next year, if there's some new faces (including academy players) who look like they have been sensibly brought in to fit into the manager's system, then I'll be a lot more confident we are heading back in the right direction. If we've got a load of Portuguese league players well out of their depth and a Real Madrid cast off in a desperate attempt to try and get top 6 ASAP, then we'll know we're in the same cycle all over again and we've got the wrong manager.
 
I don’t think we’d sell Mainoo or Garnacho unless teams were offering something like 80m and at that price I can see why there would be a discussion to be had in all honesty. The big concern would be if we were happy to sell for more like 45-50m.

We’ve sold Sancho, more optimistic we can sell Rashford, Antony and Malacia now. Casemiro will likely go as well but he’s probably a financial hit. One of Rasmus or Zirkzee will have to go as well so I do think we can raise a decent sum of money whilst ridding ourselves of a lot of wages.

Dalot is someone I would say it makes sense to sell, could probably also sell Bayindir as well.
 
Players that have value that I would keep for next season at least:
Amad, Ugarte, Yoro, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Bruno, Dorgu, Collyer

Players that we definitely wouldn’t miss that might bring a fee of some kind:
Antony, Rashford, Casemiro, Højlund, Zirkzee, Malacia

Players that we should seriously consider selling, at the right price:
Mainoo, Garnacho, Maguire

Players we should get rid of, but that we are most likely stuck with:
Shaw, Mount, Onana, Martinez

And then we will get a fee for Sancho and hopefully release Evans, Lindelof and Eriksen. There are options there, but much will depend on our ability to get fees for some of the deadwood. Thankfully, it looks like Rashford and Antony's market value might go up due to their loans, so that's good.

I feel like no Europe next season might be best. Keep a smaller squad that can really gel in the system and get consistency, and hopefully work our way back to the level required.
 
Incomings have been far greater failures than any of the academy graduates.

Flogging the kids to pay for more gambles on transfers isn’t the guaranteed hit that transfer muppets want to believe.
 
Garnacho's not shown me much to suggest he's ever going to be a world class player. He could be a great player, but especially under Amorim's system, and in the PL, I think it's unlikely that he gets to that level here. Anything north of 70m should be an instant sell imo. Over 60m would be a consideration.

I have a more sentimental attachment to Mainoo, and given his incredible rise last season, I really hope that there's a place for him here. Even if we got 100m for him, I'd be disappointed to see him go. That said, if a bid came in over 80m for him, I would begrudgingly understand us selling him.
 
Scholesgoals said:
What's the point of selling a young player that has potential to be a first team regular for a punt on a player that may or may not work out?

Why did we have money in the past for players like cavani and sanchez and antony for 100million and now we have no money for a 50m player that will grow into a better player.

Recruitment has been poor, we've gone from expensive mercenary flops (Sancho, cavani etc) to overpriced yong n lernin's (hoiljund) and a few random expensive flops (onana, antony)

We need to focus on ensuring the players we sign have the right mentality as well as ability.
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The point would be it helps tremendously with PSR and allows for financial flexibility which we don't have currently. I never thought the parasites would run us into the dirt so much that we literally have to sell our prized youngsters to not be in the red but here we are. Your point about who we get in is crucial though, if we sell Mainoo for a Donny type player, there might be riots at OT. I will say though our recruitment since the new regime came in is pretty decent; Yoro, Maz, De Ligt, Zirkzee, Dorgu. You could say it's too early to tell with most of them but at least the age and physical attributes are better.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Incomings have been far greater failures than any of the academy graduates.

Flogging the kids to pay for more gambles on transfers isn’t the guaranteed hit that transfer muppets want to believe.
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We can't act like making gambles in the transfer market isn't a necessity though. What are the chances that we can get back to the top relying on our academy alone?

Selling off promising youngsters that we don't particularly need in order to finance the transfers of the players we do, has to be the model moving forward.
 
Amorim said that and then we signed Dorgu, we also know there will be some money this summer (even without any new sales) so I take this with a pinch of salt. I am broadly happy with Ineos from a transfer perspective so far, it is limited data but we seem to be paying much more 'normal' amounts for players now.

I think if they stick with Amorim they need to fully commit to a younger player build + understand next season could well be a mid table finish. Would love to see a lot more energy and athleticism coming into the team. Couple of smart, mid twenties names for stability like Tella (Leverkusen - RWB) and David (free - CF) and the more Dorgu like signings in CB and CM in my opinion.
 
I've said it before... and I'll say it again...

I would sell every single one of them bar Bruno & Ugarte (and the recent summer/winter signings of course). A case could be made for MdL, Mazra and Kobbie (purely because of his age and clear ability). Everyone else can go, and that includes Amad. I like Amad, he's been a diamond in the rough recently, but he still isn't the calibre of player that puts you into the top 3 consistently, year after year. He's at best a squad player imo.

Every team that is ahead of us in the table right now, has a better squad than us. There is nothing you can say that could convince me otherwise. We are where we are in the league, because we deserve to be there, because the squad fits a 15th place side. It's disgraceful how the club has been run over the past decade. Allowing us to fall to this position is absolutely disgusting. Relegation would help remove the poisonous ownership and help us start again.
 
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It's obvious that INEOS will want to sell one of the "gems" to give a full profit so they can support Amorim.

I think it's clear from yesterday that Garnacho does not suit this system in the left 10 position - he could play as one of the wingers but I don't think he wants to do that.

So I think it's more or less certain that he will be sold, along with Rashford.

Casemiro would be a dream sale for INEOS this summer, but it's such a difficult deal to happen - you wonder if Saudi were really in for him, why hasn't it happened already? I think it's more likely that we're stuck with him until his contract expires.

I just don't know why Hoijlund hasn't worked out - he had all the attributes to be a potential top forward, but he just doesn't seem to be applying those traits whatsoever - so you would think that him or Zirkzee would need to be shipped out. I have a feeling that Amorim would rather keep Zirkzee around as he's a more versatile player.

Antony and Malacia you would think are in the shop window now.

That's probably it and should generate funds for Amorim to get another Striker, Winger & physical Midfielder.
 
Also, given our financial situation, we should seriously consider any free agents out there. If they are good enough to help the team, and we can bring them in on moderate contracts (say 2-3 years), I don't think we'd have a lot to lose.
 
The "we have no money" argument is bullshit. We have crap owners being fronted by a crap senior management team.

Cost cutting from Ineos Management has produced lower overheads and even lower morale - just as you would expect from people who just try and manage a "bottom line" without questioning where else they can get revenue.

We have player transfer debts because of the bad strategy of previous regime

We have operational debt placed on the club by the american owners in their takeover of the club and they have never addressed this - just kicked Malcolm's can down the road and skimmed off dividends for themselves.

The club is a money making machine being dragged down into deeper waters by the chains created by the Glazers. INEOS are painting the chains in a new colour or saying they won't be adding "more chains".

People are saying INEOS have been "ruthless" with their redundancies...and they have been ruthless towards the little people at the club. they have been spineless in their dealings with the glazers - caving into their demands and offering a partial sale when the parasites were at their lowest ebb.

I have no faith in INEOS's ability to turn things around until they address the spoilt elephant children in the room. The glazers need to be removed from the club. The debt they created needs to be dealt with once and for all - taken out of any revenue the Glazers would be due from a sale.

Just allow the club to stand on it's own two feet without daddies debt burden and ride the glazers out of town on a rail.

I've reached the point where I don't feel ANY players or manager can operate in the toxic environment at the club. I'm at the point of losing all faith in the game itself. It's in danger of becoming another middle eastern plaything like Formula 1.

I think the soul of Manchester United and football are approaching a key turning point in the next few months. I hope I'm wrong but I've a horrid feeling INEOs will lead us further down a dark path rather than towards a brighter future.
 
I guess the answer to that question isn't necessarily linked to the money, per se. It will be linked to a combination of how each individual rates the potential of Mainoo/Garnacho and how they currently view Amorim. If you think they're going to be world class or thereabout, the answer will likely be no - even if you believe they might not be an ideal fit to Amorims system. Or if you don't feel Amorim is the answer, you might be very reluctant to sanction mass spending under him.

The alternative is obviously being extremely patient and going through a very slow rebuild. Culling the squad, keeping the youth and only spending what we're able to afford, meaning 1 or 2 signings plus possibly some loans/freebies.

Personally, I'll be fine with letting them go (at least one of them!) if it means getting in 4-5 players who will really "move the needle" for us.
 
Keep De Ligt, Yoro, Dorgu, Bruno, Amad, Ugarte and Maz.

Open to selling Martinez (injuries are worrying), Mainoo (if a big offer comes in, struggles to fit system), Garnacho (struggles to fit the system), Dalot (if a decent offer comes in), Collyer (if a decent offer comes in) and Onana.

Sell Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia, Mount, Eriksen, Case, Rashford (if nothing changes), Zirkzee (I like him but he doesn’t suit us) and Antony.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Also, given our financial situation, we should seriously consider any free agents out there. If they are good enough to help the team, and we can bring them in on moderate contracts (say 2-3 years), I don't think we'd have a lot to lose.
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Absolutely, look at how Evans has contributed for us since his return. A couple good professionals who might be a bit older could be really useful. Just no Casemiro types looking for their last payday.
 
Selling Mainoo/Garnacho would be absolutely mental really - Mainoo more so, because there’s less midfielders than attackers out there. We’re clearly building for the future and looking at cheaper players who can become top in the next 3-4 years. You don’t sell the players that already fit that category just to try and re-buy them.

I understand concerns about the system, but if you can’t fit players like Garnacho and Mainoo into your system, something is wrong with the system.
 
buchansleftleg said:
The "we have no money" argument is bullshit. We have crap owners being fronted by a crap senior management team.

Cost cutting from Ineos Management has produced lower overheads and even lower morale - just as you would expect from people who just try and manage a "bottom line" without questioning where else they can get revenue.

We have player transfer debts because of the bad strategy of previous regime

We have operational debt placed on the club by the american owners in their takeover of the club and they have never addressed this - just kicked Malcolm's can down the road and skimmed off dividends for themselves.

The club is a money making machine being dragged down into deeper waters by the chains created by the Glazers. INEOS are painting the chains in a new colour or saying they won't be adding "more chains".

People are saying INEOS have been "ruthless" with their redundancies...and they have been ruthless towards the little people at the club. they have been spineless in their dealings with the glazers - caving into their demands and offering a partial sale when the parasites were at their lowest ebb.

I have no faith in INEOS's ability to turn things around until they address the spoilt elephant children in the room. The glazers need to be removed from the club. The debt they created needs to be dealt with once and for all - taken out of any revenue the Glazers would be due from a sale.

Just allow the club to stand on it's own two feet without daddies debt burden and ride the glazers out of town on a rail.

I've reached the point where I don't feel ANY players or manager can operate in the toxic environment at the club. I'm at the point of losing all faith in the game itself. It's in danger of becoming another middle eastern plaything like Formula 1.

I think the soul of Manchester United and football are approaching a key turning point in the next few months. I hope I'm wrong but I've a horrid feeling INEOs will lead us further down a dark path rather than towards a brighter future.
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Completely agree with all of this. We're past the point of this being down to any manager, or certain players within the squad. This starts at the very top and seeps its way down.
 
Dan_F said:
Selling Mainoo/Garnacho would be absolutely mental really - Mainoo more so, because there’s less midfielders than attackers out there. We’re clearly building for the future and looking at cheaper players who can become top in the next 3-4 years. You don’t sell the players that already fit that category just to try and re-buy them.

I understand concerns about the system, but if you can’t fit players like Garnacho and Mainoo into your system, something is wrong with the system.
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If someone bids big for Garnacho I'd definitely sell. He shouldn't be a starter for a big club because he's just not a good goal scorer, wastes far too many chances. If someone bids huge for a squad player you take it.

Mainoo I'd wait a year on and see how he develops next season before judging.
 
We might need to sell Old Trafford the way the season is going. Our revenues next season would be seriously depleted without any European football. On top of that we are going to lose a portion of the Adidas money for not qualifying for the CL two seasons in a row. The share from the PL will be the lowest it has ever been as it looks like we are not going to finish in the top 12.

We don't have many salable assets as well. We'll get the Sancho money and if we are lucky we'd be able to find buyers for our three loanees. Other than that it's only Mainoo and Garnacho that we can sell. I would be shocked if we can get more than a combined 100m for them.

The idea that we can sell and then use 5X of the amount generated to fund our buys is not steeped in reality. We already struggling for cash-flow and have previous amortization payments too to add to our debt payments (interest/coupon). We just cannot go on and spend money with gay abandon and punt our problems for a future date in Barcelona kind of profligacy.
 
RedSky said:
If someone bids big for Garnacho I'd definitely sell. He shouldn't be a starter for a big club because he's just not a good goal scorer, wastes far too many chances. If someone bids huge for a squad player you take it.

Mainoo I'd wait a year on and see how he develops next season before judging.
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I'd actually say the opposite.

With Garnacho I'd say there is the possibility that it clicks for him, and he takes his game up another level. Finishing and decision making can be improved, especially with maturity, and he has so many of the fundamentals down. Good mentality as well, if you look beyond the selfishness.

Mainoo however, just seems to be very lacking in these fundamentals. He's slow and unathetic, and I still don't see what his best position is - he has major weaknesses at both CM and CAM. I feel like the chance of him stepping up to become top class is much lower than for Garnacho.

People are mad at Garnacho right now, because of the game yesterday, but he has not been bad recently overall.
 
RedSky said:
If someone bids big for Garnacho I'd definitely sell. He shouldn't be a starter for a big club because he's just not a good goal scorer, wastes far too many chances. If someone bids huge for a squad player you take it.

Mainoo I'd wait a year on and see how he develops next season before judging.
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Depends on your definition of big, but based on January, I think we’d be struggling to get more than £50 million. I don’t think we find a top replacement for that if you consider potential wages vs Garnacho’s lower wages.

With all of these young players, you’d ideally be easing them in and we’ve not been able to do that with Mainoo and Garnacho. They’re being expected to lead the team and it’s definitely hurting their development.

Judging these kind of high potential young players by the time they’re 20 is quite crazy. But I guess that’s the position we’ve put ourselves in financially.
 
What's the point of paying 80m for a player who might come good and be valued at 80m when you can outright buy good players for 80m

I can see the point if you're investing 20m ish for future potential. But buying Hojlund and Zirkzee for the amount of money is pure stupidity

And even for youngster they're shit might as well loan a couple 30s journeyman from obscure league
 
Mike Smalling said:
Also, given our financial situation, we should seriously consider any free agents out there. If they are good enough to help the team, and we can bring them in on moderate contracts (say 2-3 years), I don't think we'd have a lot to lose.
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Messi's a free agent this Summer!
 
Mike Smalling said:
I'd actually say the opposite.

With Garnacho I'd say there is the possibility that it clicks for him, and he takes his game up another level. Finishing and decision making can be improved, especially with maturity, and he has so many of the fundamentals down. Good mentality as well, if you look beyond the selfishness.

Mainoo however, just seems to be very lacking in these fundamentals. He's slow and unathetic, and I still don't see what his best position is - he has major weaknesses at both CM and CAM. I feel like the chance of him stepping up to become top class is much lower than for Garnacho.

People are mad at Garnacho right now, because of the game yesterday, but he has not been bad recently overall.
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I don't think he'll ever become that player though. He takes the wrong option a lot of the time and just isn't a goal scorer but also isn't a consistent supplier either. He's consistent at killing attacks by either taking the wrong option or putting in a weak shot. His conversion rate is appalling and yet has the second highest shots in the squad.

Yes magic might intervene and it suddenly makes Garnacho a goal scorer, but I'm a cold, hard, brutal and depressing realist. I'd definitely take big money on him and bring in someone else. We don't need more project players either, this obsession with youth needs to end.
 
RedSky said:
I don't think he'll ever become that player though. He takes the wrong option a lot of the time and just isn't a goal scorer but also isn't a consistent supplier either. He's consistent at killing attacks by either taking the wrong option or putting in a weak shot. His conversion rate is appalling and yet has the second highest shots in the squad.

Yes magic might intervene and it suddenly makes Garnacho a goal scorer, but I'm a cold, hard, brutal and depressing realist. I'd definitely take big money on him and bring in someone else. We don't need more project players either, this obsession with youth needs to end.
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That's not unreasonable. I'd just rather persist with Garnacho than with Mainoo if given the choice.
 
If there is anyone still employed at the club responsible for any of these deals...then Sir Jim has been sacking the wrong people.

Mount €64M
Casemiro €71M
Hojlund €74M
Antony €95M
Onana €50M

€354M

fecking insane how little they have performed as a group.
 
RuudTom83 said:
If there is anyone still employed at the club responsible for any of these deals...then Sir Jim has been sacking the wrong people.

Mount €64M
Casemiro €71M
Hojlund €74M
Antony €95M
Onana €50M

€354M

fecking insane how little they have performed as a group.
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Money laundering fc. Someone needs to investigate the bank accounts of all those involved with our transfers since Fergie left.
 
Where are the freaks who say ''I don't care how much we spend on X player, it's not my money.''

Well now you're seeing the long term consequences of spending stupid amounts on players not worth it.
 
If Utd genuinely doesn't have money and needs to sell, you may as well fold the club now. This is the worst state the squad has been in for 40+ years. However what Utd has never lacked previously is money to buy what was needed in order to be competitive.

If Utd has to sell the small handful of decent players it has, then surely it's just weakening an already poor squad? What is the plan now, recruitment has been terrible for a long time now, can we really trust those in charge to make future signings successful? Asking fans to pay increasing ticket prices for a club in decline is a recipe for trouble. The fans will want a return on their loyalty from watching, of they see less quality and paying more for it, who'd blame any of them for doing something better with their time and better value for money.
 
djembatheking said:
Casemiro wants to see out his contract, not interested in Saudi.
https://www.thetimes.com/sport/foot...-300k-a-week-casemiro-wants-to-stay-x2df9t2cp

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...nited-transfer-Old-Trafford-Saudi-Arabia.html
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Yup. This is why this idea that we will sell everyone and bring in 23 fresh faces untained by what's happened this season is mad.

To sell players they a) need to have takers and b) need to want out. A lot of the players we'd love to get rid of lack either a or b.

70/80% of the players we have now will be here in August. I hope people are ready for what that looks like.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Money laundering fc. Someone needs to investigate the bank accounts of all those involved with our transfers since Fergie left.
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EtH's agent and close associate Kees Vos is a co-founder of SEG. Vos was a permanent feature at our trainings and premises during EtH tenure, as close to the club and to the manager as you can get. Vos, through SEG, also employs EtH son Nigel as an analyst. While United worked with SEG before EtH, we were never as dependent on one agency as we became when ten Hag took over. SEG were the agents for Hojlund (and bagged a nice fee) and played a key role in a deal with Amrabat (they acted for United in the negotiations), there's also some less strong/obvious links between SEG and few of the other former EtH players that we bought under EtH.

You don't need to investigate the bank accounts to be very much worried about the conflict of interest.
 
Sancho, Rashford, Eriksen, Antony and Lindelof will be sold or leave on frees. Should be able to get 80m or so between Sancho, Rashford and Antony, though we'd probably have to make some concessions on wages. Lindelof and Eriksen on frees. Casemiro seems like he wants to sit tight so he's here til 2026.

That should be enough to be able to do stuff though.

We should look to sell Hojlund or at the very least loan him out. Don't see anyone else who is that sellable or is worth getting rid of for what we'd get (and we'd need to just replace them with similar money so again, not worth).
 
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