It’s the players, not the manager

I blame players for the lack of effort, "body language" etc. But they are are professional footballers who finished 2nd last season in the league, and now they perform (as a collective) on par with the likes of Newcastle, Burnley and Norwich (Wolves were probably better than us).
This squad is far far away from reaching it's potential. Granted last season was a result of some players golden form (Bruno, partially Fred and McTominay, who are all shite this season).
 
This is what happens when you reward mediocrity with eye-wateringly high contracts.

Get rid of the clear unsettling cliques in the dressing room who have down tooled for manager after manager and who hold far too much power and influence. Replace them with young, hungry and talented professionals who want to play for this club and will apply themselves correctly.

Then we might start going somewhere.
 
rooney2009 said:
If it’s just the players fault, why do you need a Manager then?
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Do we even have one? I mean when the player power is bigger than the manager then the one that should manage (themselves) is the player, thus we should expect the result from that said players shouldn't we?
 
Giggsy13 said:
This group needed a proper authoritative figure like Conte after the disaster this season has become. The squad has talent but lacks the desire and individuals are running that team. Conte would have corrected that attitude quickly and would not have been afraid to drop big names. We mess up yet again by appointing Rangnick.
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Sadly the board were shit scared of him taking over and ran a mile at the prospect
 
wolvored said:
I've said this multiple times get a competent cm pairing capable of creating passing and tackling like every other team seems to haveand the rest will become better. Absolute joke a club like utd haven't got this
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Yeah heard someone on a fan cam say they thought we had 12th/13th best CM partnership in the league, are you kidding it's more like 18th I would say and that's unacceptable.
 
Giggsy13 said:
This group needed a proper authoritative figure like Conte after the disaster this season has become. The squad has talent but lacks the desire and individuals are running that team. Conte would have corrected that attitude quickly and would not have been afraid to drop big names. We mess up yet again by appointing Rangnick.
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That won’t solve anything long term. The shite players know they only have to stick around for 2 seasons and he’ll be gone when he throws his toys out of the pram and then we’ll be stuck with the big egos on big contracts he wanted to replace the big egos on big contracts he got rid of.

We need a clear out of players and a long term vision from a director of football, and a manager that just manages the team for the duration of his contract. No more of this Disney land shit.
 
We don't have a working midfield. It is unbelievably mediocre. We got Ronaldo and then skipped the midfield, which was an absolute insane decision.
Our current midfielders can produce good performances now and then, but never consistently. Because that is their ceiling.

Edit: Not a "miss you Pogba" post.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
We don't have a working midfield. It is unbelievably mediocre. We got Ronaldo and then skipped the midfield, which was an absolute insane decision.
Our current midfielders can produce good performances now and then, but never consistently. Because that is their ceiling.

Edit: Not a "miss you Pogba" post.
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We would have got Ronaldo regardless as he was available and going to city otherwise.

I mentioned elsewhere that it blows my mind Solskjaer didn’t demand the sale of Pogba, Martial, Lingard and Bailly in the summer to fix that midfield. He got himself sacked by not dealing with that issue.
 
crossy1686 said:
We would have got Ronaldo regardless as he was available and going to city otherwise.

I mentioned elsewhere that it blows my mind Solskjaer didn’t demand the sale of Pogba, Martial, Lingard and Bailly in the summer to fix that midfield. He got himself sacked by not dealing with that issue.
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I don't blame getting Ronaldo. He was available and he was ready to come. It would have been stupid not to buy him.
But forgetting that we badly needed a midfielder was insane.

And on sale of players, unless we were putting them out for dirt cheap, there wouldn't have been many buyers. Especially with that kind of salaries. Very few players were in demand and the money in the market was also lesser.
 
crossy1686 said:
We would have got Ronaldo regardless as he was available and going to city otherwise.

I mentioned elsewhere that it blows my mind Solskjaer didn’t demand the sale of Pogba, Martial, Lingard and Bailly in the summer to fix that midfield. He got himself sacked by not dealing with that issue.
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Oles problem was the opposite, he wouldnt let players go. Its been documented he told Bailly, Lingard and VDB they would get more gametime if they stayed and he lied about that.
 
Class of 1902 said:
This is what happens when you reward mediocrity with eye-wateringly high contracts.

Get rid of the clear unsettling cliques in the dressing room who have down tooled for manager after manager and who hold far too much power and influence. Replace them with young, hungry and talented professionals who want to play for this club and will apply themselves correctly.

Then we might start going somewhere.
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Yes, I think you're absolutely right

Most of us here thought the problem was Ole (I know I did), and to be fair he was an awful coach. But the team is poor under ALL of the managers we've had.

I have no inside information, just a pair of eyes and an education. I think it goes deeper: it's a case of a fully toxic work culture: there is major conflict here amongst some of the senior players, and they're affecting the confidence and ability of all of the rest. We need a new management team- two or three dedicated people who are here for the duration, with the balls to leave out our 'superstars' if their performance is bad, and with a new influx of young, hungry and technically gifted modern players that want to be here and will fight to win. Too many of the present lot appear not to give a shit. Perhaps Ralf can do this, but so far he's not showing much sign of possessing the required cajunas to get the job done. I'm prepared to give him some time, though. It must be a shock to the system, and we don't actually know whether or not he's got the power to slap the megastars around a little (not literally...). Is he actually allowed to take off a poor Ronaldo: Give Rashford a kick up the arse? Take the captaincy away from Maguire?

Look at the games recently, under both Ole and Ralf. It makes me ill watching it! But imagine being someone like Sancho, coming here into this? No wonder the kid can't play at his level. Imagine turning up to manage it all? feck, what a nightmare. The whole club is sick.
There is something deeply wrong here, and it's going to take a root and branch shake up to deal with it. It can be done, but we'll need a Klop to do it, and the backing of the owners.
 
Yes it’s the players but who has seen over the recruitment process for the past 8 years?

The board.

In my opinion it’s not even that we have recruited badly (although we have). It’s the toxic culture that the board has created of overpaying players to show ‘asset’ values on their books. We stopped paying players based on what their performance merits and also backed players over the manger (Pogba vs Mourinho).

Rotten to the core
 
The majority of the players we had and have were highly rated at other clubs before we got them. If we exchange mctominay for Mourinho, I bet that mctominay will be as hyped up as Dclyan Rice and moutinho will be as average as Matic. We have a lot of good players. Many players on here was excited with our transfer business, so I believe the problem is just finding the right consistency toward squad selection and having those players we selected have more trust and chemistry with each other. That is why I stated that one of the problem we have is having such a bloated squad.
 
Amadaeus said:
The majority of the players we had was highly rated at other clubs before we got them. If we exchange mctominay for Mourinho, I bet that mctominay will be as hyped up as Dclyan Rice. We have a lot of good players. Many players on here was excited with our transfer business, so I believe the problem is just finding the right consistency toward squad selection and having those players we selected have more trust and chemistry with each other. That is why I stated that one of the problem we have is having such a bloated squad.
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Things really are dire!
 
Amadaeus said:
The majority of the players we had and have were highly rated at other clubs before we got them. If we exchange mctominay for Mourinho, I bet that mctominay will be as hyped up as Dclyan Rice and moutinho will be as average as Matic. We have a lot of good players. Many players on here was excited with our transfer business, so I believe the problem is just finding the right consistency toward squad selection and having those players we selected have more trust and chemistry with each other. That is why I stated that one of the problem we have is having such a bloated squad.
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Although I agree we have a bloated squad, have to respectfully disagree with you that we buy good players, we do but it’s rare. Man City buy top class players, we buy lots of over the hill players or potential players which we do not have the ability to develop.

Aside from Pogba, Varane, Bruno, Mata, Sancho and Maguire. When have we ever paid for ready to go players over the past 9 years? 6 players over an 9 year period is not enough to compete with the best. Especially when we didn’t invest for a long period before that.
 
wolvored said:
Oles problem was the opposite, he wouldnt let players go. Its been documented he told Bailly, Lingard and VDB they would get more gametime if they stayed and he lied about that.
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And that’s why it blows my mind. As someone who considers himself schooled under Fergie, he never had the balls to cut someone loose despite it being best for the club.
 
It is the players. You don't finish 3rd then 2nd and then have this level of capitulation.

It looks like too many of them don't have the mentality, professionalism or preparedness to really compete with the top sides. And I fully expect leaks to the press about Ralf in the next few weeks, "Lack of coaching", "confusing tactics", "too much training" etc.

Fans need to back the manager this time, and Murtough and let them do what they think is right. They shouldn't be pressured into sacking the manager the next time the player have a crisis or down tools. Instead they should be supported in getting rid of any player who doesn't look like they can hack it here. Either mentally or physically. Move them out before they drag everyone else down.
 
Manny said:
Fans need to back the manager this time, and Murtough and let them do what they think is right. They shouldn't be pressured into sacking the manager the next time the player have a crisis or down tools. Instead they should be supported in getting rid of any player who doesn't look like they can hack it here. Either mentally or physically. Move them out before they drag everyone else down.
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He won't be sacked unless he somehow completely loses the dressing room. The club doesn't take action based on the general opinion of the caf. And what Shaw seemed to imply was that morale is low at the club, and he's hoping the new manager will have more ideas to improve them, he sounded more disappointed that there hasn't been an upturn in fortunes since he's arrived rather than not liking him or something.
 
There all a fecking embarrassment and have been since the start of the season. There's way way to many who THINK they are deserved a place in the side no matter how they perform. Now throw a ego like Ronaldo in the pot, and that gets worse. You got top pros there and it's not many the rest are stealing from the fans by putting on that shirt playing like tripe, then going on socials, with bullshit emojis as if that's enough to satisfy the modern day follower of Man Utd.
 
mu4c_20le said:
He won't be sacked unless he somehow completely loses the dressing room. The club doesn't take action based on the general opinion of the caf. And what Shaw seemed to imply was that morale is low at the club, and he's hoping the new manager will have more ideas to improve them, he sounded more disappointed that there hasn't been an upturn in fortunes since he's arrived rather than not liking him or something.
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I got no issue with what Shaw said and I expect Ralf to see out his six months. I was talking about backing Ralf in general, both now and when he moves to his new role, and the next manager comes in.

We need to trust whoever the manager is, Ralf and Murtough to do the right thing with the playing staff. Underperforming players need to be moved on along with their agents and fanboys.
 
I think if you look at how many times we work the ball to AWB for a cross and it hits the first man, it's obvious that our team is reliant on players who can't do what we need.
 
Would shout at them how about caring for the shirt instead of just your bank accounts, waste of time though because will just walk past mumbling
 
You could literally hire a clown from the circus and have him manage city for a few games and the players wont be getting battered by watford or be dominated by newcastle and norwich. If the players cant string together five yard passes then that's on the players, no manager in the world past or present can remedy that.

Turd cannot be polished.
 
TsuWave said:
You keep talking about ancient history. “Fergie needed 5 seasons”. That was like a century ago. Football was different.

Mourinho is a bum. Make a poll asking if United fans want him back and the overwhelming majority will say feck no.

I’m not trying to make you believe anything. You quoted me to defend Mourinho’s honour. My verdict on him won’t be swayed. Washed up manager.
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Ladron de redcafe said:
Which trophies? There are only 3 trophies that matter and Mourinho failed to win any of them in 3 seasons at United despite having the luxury of breaking world transfer records, which no manager in United history has had prior or since.

Finishing 19 points behind Guardiola after breaking a world transfer fee record and having the squad with the highest wagebill is not an accomplishment. Finding yourself 18 and 19 points behind Guardiola and Klopp, respectively, by December of the next season is even worse.

If Mourinho isn't finished, then he must not be a very good manager.
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Klopp has never finished above Mourinho in the league. Also beggars can't be choosers , those "tinpot" trophies that Mourinho won will be the last trophies the club had for unforeseeable future.

The popular opinion from brainless sheep being stirred by biased media is "Jose Mourinho was finished". But people who can think for themselves and not easily influenced by popular opinion realize that it was Manchester United Football club that actually finished. Pep and Klopp would be finished manager too if they were to manage Manchester United. Your board didn't want to appoint Conte because they were too scared of another Jose Mourinho, someone who is demanding and will not think twice to expose their incompetent ass, will not think twice to bench your favorite players or get rid of them ( something pep and klopp did on regular basis but Mourinho wasn't allowed to do at United ) ,which is another indication that United are finished.
Focusmate said:
Mourinho still has his tactical nous but has lost his man management ability to get players to run through a brick wall for him, or at least in England he has.
In England at least I have never known a manager so disliked by his own fanbase as a person - at both United and Spurs - a bit due to his defensive football but mostly a dislike of him as a person. And refs too - no chance of getting Klopp style decisions in your favour with Mourinho in charge, we got nothing when he was here.
He actually did a good job at Chelsea remoulding them into Champions but they stopped playing for him after the doctor incident and he has struggled to get his players onside since.
He really was about par given his team here for the first 2 seasons but people remember the last few months when he spat his dummy snd burned the house down. No big club in England would have him now - his personslity is too toxic for fans refs and players know his history.
Id be very surprised if Roma improve significantly and get top 4 to be honest.
Journalists can set a narrative - how is he seen by the journos in Italy ? (He was really disliked by many of the journos here)
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I will repeat it again, it's Manchester United whom were finished, he was hugely overachieved and no manager in the world will be able to surpass his achievement at United for many years to come. You can't give Lewis Hamilton a fiat and expect him to win F1 race. This applied at spurs too, let's see if Conte manage to reach any cup final with them or even topped the table for weeks without wholesale change of spurs squad, i mean where is Ndombele and Dele Alli ? nobody cares about them anymore that the manager is no longer the "finished dinosaur". Pep turn 100m Jack Grealish into benchwarmer yet no one cares ? Tell me what the media would wrote and fanbase reaction if it was Jose Mourinho who did it ? There are blatant and obvious double standard toward Mourinho compared to any other manager that you must be so thick if you still fall for it.


There was a simple time at United when you had a "great squad" and the only issues were that they was "bullied by a dinosaur" who expected them to track back and became annoyed when they messed up simple moves. They just needed the shackles released from playing pragmatic football, that turn out well eh ? Easy to blame everything on one of the most decorated manager in history of football who has seen and won it all ,easy to just listened to biased media but hard to use your own brain to actually think and analyzes where the actual problem lies on. For example, pampering over players to inflate their egos and giving them even more player power is definitely adding the problem.

and don't worry about Roma, we have bunch of our best players down injured for almost half season, they will hopefully back to the team soon , we don't have toxic fanbase , toxic media , toxic board and toxic club legend trying to sabotage and criticized everything Mourinho is doing here, he is in full control and have full backing from everyone involved. Things will only get better from now on.
 
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For 3 straight managers we have sided with the players (rightly so sadly) but it's a steep price to pay.

Now the monster has grown so massive you cant pull them out.

That's why we should always maintain the manager supremacy at all cost. Even if we have to sack him his authority should not be undermined or this is the price.
 
Loida said:
The popular opinion from brainless sheep being stirred by biased media is "Jose Mourinho was finished". But people who can think for themselves and not easily influenced by popular opinion realize that it was Manchester United Football club that actually finished.
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United being poorly ran and Mourinho being finished are not mutually exclusive concepts. Stop quoting me with nonsense just because a washed up bum like Mourinho is now employed at your club, one that I couldn’t give a feck less about.
 
I presume we have debated the picture doing the rounds of the players coming out for the game against Wolves, where all of them look depressed and not even like they want to be there
 
ManchesterManchester said:
Yes it’s the players but who has seen over the recruitment process for the past 8 years?

The board.

In my opinion it’s not even that we have recruited badly (although we have). It’s the toxic culture that the board has created of overpaying players to show ‘asset’ values on their books. We stopped paying players based on what their performance merits and also backed players over the manger (Pogba vs Mourinho).

Rotten to the core
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This. Absolutely this. If I was a Glazer I would come out with a statement (or through puppet Ed or Arnold) and say we back RR to the hilt and he can sit any wanker who does not give full commitment. It’s gotten that bad that drastic measures are needed. OGS tried to reset the culture but it’s clear that without the backing of ownership the players still got away with murder. I love United but I am now so sick and tired of the inept and greedy way of management and playing staff.
 
Loida said:
Klopp has never finished above Mourinho in the league. Also beggars can't be choosers , those "tinpot" trophies that Mourinho won will be the last trophies the club had for unforeseeable future.

The popular opinion from brainless sheep being stirred by biased media is "Jose Mourinho was finished". But people who can think for themselves and not easily influenced by popular opinion realize that it was Manchester United Football club that actually finished. Pep and Klopp would be finished manager too if they were to manage Manchester United. Your board didn't want to appoint Conte because they were too scared of another Jose Mourinho, someone who is demanding and will not think twice to expose their incompetent ass, will not think twice to bench your favorite players or get rid of them ( something pep and klopp did on regular basis but Mourinho wasn't allowed to do at United ) ,which is another indication that United are finished.

I will repeat it again, it's Manchester United whom were finished, he was hugely overachieved and no manager in the world will be able to surpass his achievement at United for many years to come. You can't give Lewis Hamilton a fiat and expect him to win F1 race. This applied at spurs too, let's see if Conte manage to reach any cup final with them or even topped the table for weeks without wholesale change of spurs squad, i mean where is Ndombele and Dele Alli ? nobody cares about them anymore that the manager is no longer the "finished dinosaur". Pep turn 100m Jack Grealish into benchwarmer yet no one cares ? Tell me what the media would wrote and fanbase reaction if it was Jose Mourinho who did it ? There are blatant and obvious double standard toward Mourinho compared to any other manager that you must be so thick if you still fall for it.


There was a simple time at United when you had a "great squad" and the only issues were that they was "bullied by a dinosaur" who expected them to track back and became annoyed when they messed up simple moves. They just needed the shackles released from playing pragmatic football, that turn out well eh ? Easy to blame everything on one of the most decorated manager in history of football who has seen and won it all ,easy to just listened to biased media but hard to use your own brain to actually think and analyzes where the actual problem lies on. For example, pampering over players to inflate their egos and giving them even more player power is definitely adding the problem.

and don't worry about Roma, we have bunch of our best players down injured for almost half season, they will hopefully back to the team soon , we don't have toxic fanbase , toxic media , toxic board and toxic club legend trying to sabotage and criticized everything Mourinho is doing here, he is in full control and have full backing from everyone involved. Things will only get better from now on.
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This post is laughable. You rant much?
 
TsuWave said:
Mourinho wasn’t top neither. Guy had been sacked from his previous two jobs for underperforming
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I’m sorry but I can’t accept that statement at all. Mourinho has proven to be out of touch now, but back then, the ‘previous two jobs’ were title winning periods with Madrid and Chelsea.
 
Loida said:
Klopp has never finished above Mourinho in the league. Also beggars can't be choosers , those "tinpot" trophies that Mourinho won will be the last trophies the club had for unforeseeable future.

The popular opinion from brainless sheep being stirred by biased media is "Jose Mourinho was finished". But people who can think for themselves and not easily influenced by popular opinion realize that it was Manchester United Football club that actually finished. Pep and Klopp would be finished manager too if they were to manage Manchester United. Your board didn't want to appoint Conte because they were too scared of another Jose Mourinho, someone who is demanding and will not think twice to expose their incompetent ass, will not think twice to bench your favorite players or get rid of them ( something pep and klopp did on regular basis but Mourinho wasn't allowed to do at United ) ,which is another indication that United are finished.

I will repeat it again, it's Manchester United whom were finished, he was hugely overachieved and no manager in the world will be able to surpass his achievement at United for many years to come. You can't give Lewis Hamilton a fiat and expect him to win F1 race. This applied at spurs too, let's see if Conte manage to reach any cup final with them or even topped the table for weeks without wholesale change of spurs squad, i mean where is Ndombele and Dele Alli ? nobody cares about them anymore that the manager is no longer the "finished dinosaur". Pep turn 100m Jack Grealish into benchwarmer yet no one cares ? Tell me what the media would wrote and fanbase reaction if it was Jose Mourinho who did it ? There are blatant and obvious double standard toward Mourinho compared to any other manager that you must be so thick if you still fall for it.


There was a simple time at United when you had a "great squad" and the only issues were that they was "bullied by a dinosaur" who expected them to track back and became annoyed when they messed up simple moves. They just needed the shackles released from playing pragmatic football, that turn out well eh ? Easy to blame everything on one of the most decorated manager in history of football who has seen and won it all ,easy to just listened to biased media but hard to use your own brain to actually think and analyzes where the actual problem lies on. For example, pampering over players to inflate their egos and giving them even more player power is definitely adding the problem.

and don't worry about Roma, we have bunch of our best players down injured for almost half season, they will hopefully back to the team soon , we don't have toxic fanbase , toxic media , toxic board and toxic club legend trying to sabotage and criticized everything Mourinho is doing here, he is in full control and have full backing from everyone involved. Things will only get better from now on.
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Why are fans of Italian teams always so angry and obnoxious?
 
The sorry truth about this is we could bring in a combination of Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, and Pochetino and together they wouldn't get anything out of these whingebags.
It may take time to get rid of the lot of them but that's what needs to be done. They will keep going on about every manager who comes here now, because they get away with it. They are money grabbing cnuts and are letting the club and fans down every time they put the shirt on.
 
Loida said:
Klopp has never finished above Mourinho in the league. Also beggars can't be choosers , those "tinpot" trophies that Mourinho won will be the last trophies the club had for unforeseeable future.

The popular opinion from brainless sheep being stirred by biased media is "Jose Mourinho was finished". But people who can think for themselves and not easily influenced by popular opinion realize that it was Manchester United Football club that actually finished. Pep and Klopp would be finished manager too if they were to manage Manchester United. Your board didn't want to appoint Conte because they were too scared of another Jose Mourinho, someone who is demanding and will not think twice to expose their incompetent ass, will not think twice to bench your favorite players or get rid of them ( something pep and klopp did on regular basis but Mourinho wasn't allowed to do at United ) ,which is another indication that United are finished.

I will repeat it again, it's Manchester United whom were finished, he was hugely overachieved and no manager in the world will be able to surpass his achievement at United for many years to come. You can't give Lewis Hamilton a fiat and expect him to win F1 race. This applied at spurs too, let's see if Conte manage to reach any cup final with them or even topped the table for weeks without wholesale change of spurs squad, i mean where is Ndombele and Dele Alli ? nobody cares about them anymore that the manager is no longer the "finished dinosaur". Pep turn 100m Jack Grealish into benchwarmer yet no one cares ? Tell me what the media would wrote and fanbase reaction if it was Jose Mourinho who did it ? There are blatant and obvious double standard toward Mourinho compared to any other manager that you must be so thick if you still fall for it.


There was a simple time at United when you had a "great squad" and the only issues were that they was "bullied by a dinosaur" who expected them to track back and became annoyed when they messed up simple moves. They just needed the shackles released from playing pragmatic football, that turn out well eh ? Easy to blame everything on one of the most decorated manager in history of football who has seen and won it all ,easy to just listened to biased media but hard to use your own brain to actually think and analyzes where the actual problem lies on. For example, pampering over players to inflate their egos and giving them even more player power is definitely adding the problem.

and don't worry about Roma, we have bunch of our best players down injured for almost half season, they will hopefully back to the team soon , we don't have toxic fanbase , toxic media , toxic board and toxic club legend trying to sabotage and criticized everything Mourinho is doing here, he is in full control and have full backing from everyone involved. Things will only get better from now on.
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Your very first sentence is laughable. Klopp was 19 points ahead of Mourinho by December when Mourinho got sacked because of his own incompetence, and then that same Klopp immediately won the Champions League and the league the following season.

Not sure what precipitated this glorious, hysterical rant about how everything about how Roma are in better shape than United and how nothing is or was ever Mourinho's fault, but thanks for amusing rant. Nothing more delectable than watching a Mourinho fan in full meltdown :D
 
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MalaysianRed7 said:
I’m sorry but I can’t accept that statement at all. Mourinho has proven to be out of touch now, but back then, the ‘previous two jobs’ were title winning periods with Madrid and Chelsea.
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Not sure how that constitutes a rebuttal to that post. He's underperformed at Chelsea, when he left them in a relegation battle after winning only 1 major trophy in 3 years with a world class squad in a weak premier League after Ferguson retired and prior to Pep joining.

He also underperformed at Madrid when he spent 4 (!) times more than his nearest competition (net and gross) and only one one league in 3 years (when the 2nd of the two horse league was decimated by injuries) and failed to even challenge for the Champions League. In come Ancelotti the following season, and accomplished more in his first year there than Mourinho did in all 3.

Like it or not, that's underperforming.
 
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