Doesn't France hate Muslims - I should say the french government
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
So their boys were probably killed by their own people. The noose is tightening around those Neo-Nazi war criminals.
Good. Although I have Israeli friends and I don't hate the people of Israeli at all, I have nothing but hatred for their government.
Doesn't matter French women doesn't want to have kids so the Muslims have for everybody, I saw some numbers in the tv and was a huge difference.
Antarctica is free, big and has oil.
But no Palestinians to kill
I'm not missing those facts at all.
The fact that the Jews were fleeing from persecution was likely no small consolation to a local population who could see exactly where the mass immigration was going, especially after the cynical British attempts to get them to rise up in WW1 with promises of Arab self-independence, promises which were clearly not only broken but actively mocked by the British, who also offered the land to the Jews (and who would later disarm the Arabs in the region while keeping the Zionist militias fully armed). Especially as it was not them persecuting the Jews.
You don't get it do you? A population who is already living on the land is of course not going to accept a 'lion share' of the land when they currently occupy the entirety of the land, just as the Brits or the Americans or the Russians would not accept it if you told them part of the land they call their own would be split off to give to another people, currently not even there. It wasn't like they were being told to split the land with a people they'd been living alongside for hundreds of years in equal numbers. They were being asked to split the land with people they saw as no different to the French or British who just decades earlier (or indeed the Turks centuries earlier) had come and conquered their land. Look at the reaction of just a few immigrants in most of Europe for gods sake.
Again, I'm not sure who has argued that they weren't? After the Romans drove every single one of them out of the area, they've rarely been a majority until perhaps the 1950s or 60s?
Just read Fearless' made up comment on the page after I last posted.. Hilarious. He does have a record of doing this, especially with his favourite of the 'leader of the Palestinians in Jordan', a man neither I nor anyone else I know has ever heard of. Excellent leader.
Are you saying that the 200.000+ Arabs at the end of 19th/b. of 20th century occupied every single inch, every rock, hill, valley, desert, literally everything on the entire territory?
It was the rogue IAF that bombed Gaza. Israel has never fired a bullet.
My post suggested that regurgitating the history is cool for internet debates, other than that discussing possible peaceful solutions. That has to consider that none of the sides is going to miraculously disappear.
I did not say what your personal opinion was, because I have no idea about that. I did say that there are false hopes among the Palestinians about Israel vanishing, and unfortunately they are fueled by some of their Western and other sympathizers. I added that false hopes have led the Arabs to terrible tragedies in the past, and that lessons need to be learned.
How exactly did you come to this conclusion? Did you even watch the video that you posted?
This is how you win friends. Can't wait for the scouse ambassador to be called back...
Really? When was that?
You'll find a majority of Israelis want to live side by side with the Arabs peacefully, but not at the expense of Jews' right for self determination. It's that simple. I said here ages ago that if the Palestinians wanted to expose Israel's evil face as it is portrayed here all they should have done was agreeing to a demilitarized Palestine next to a Jewish Israel along the 1967 lines (with land swaps). The rest could have been solved in 15 (diplomatic) minutes.
Cheers, CircusMonkey: No passport, no leave.
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This is how you win friends. Can't wait for the scouse ambassador to be called back...
This was low. No need to bring up the 7:1.
Makes you wonder whether Israel is focusing its dimplomatic efforts in SA on Argentina.
Amir is already on his way. All he asks for is a British passport... I'll bargain for a more attractive one.
I bet the Argies are still thanking you for the support you showed them during the Falklands crisis
You're straying into theological/metaphysical definitions of occupying, which have no place here.
I rooted for the Brits. Bryan Robson scoring against France after 27 seconds made me patriotic.
what?!Africanspur spoke about a population that "currently occupy the entirety of the land". So I asked him in response if he believes that the Arabs really occupied (or inhabited, whatever) the entire land. What did you not understand?
You're getting increasingly wilfully obtuse. What he clearly meant was that the demographics of the region indicated a clear Palestinian majority for self-determination.
Africanspur spoke about a population that "currently occupy the entirety of the land". So I asked him in response if he believes that the Arabs really occupied (or inhabited, whatever) the entire land. What did you not understand?
Islamic Jihad are not Hamas, the IAF is controled by Israels government
Africanspur spoke about a population that "currently occupy the entirety of the land". So I asked him in response if he believes that the Arabs really occupied (or inhabited, whatever) the entire land. What did you not understand?
I think I will come and occupy your living room whilst you're in the Kitchen
By the way I'll be locking you in your Kitchen
Sums it up pretty well.
Does anyone think any changes will come out of this latest flare up ? It seems like Hamas' strategy will not only end with nearly 1000 Palestinian deaths, but also no change in policy regarding the blockade. If the status quo remains which it appears it will, then what is the point of this all ?
One could also argue that a complete cessation of rockets would also not change the status quo.
So if neither a cessation of rockets nor a continuation of rockets will change the status quo, then what is the point of it all if it only results in the killing of mostly innocent Palestinians.
What would you suggest as a solution since your country holds the key to this, and yet it chooses reinforce the status quo.
I don't believe anyone other than the Israelis and Palestinians hold the key to a long term resolution, which will not take place until both sides de escalate and get back to negotiations.
We don't do ceasfires with gangs. Either there is quiet on both sides or not.
I do belive the seige will be lifted to a degree
Hamas will get economic incentive which will improve its position after he was on the verge of losing grip. This doesn't bode.want all for the Palestinians themselves more than anyone else.
Israel gain was the discovery of the extent of Hamas' tunnels, and the lucky escape from a possible scenario of Hamas using them to take control over entire Israeli towns. At least 20-30 tunnels.were discovered, each leading to an Israeli settlement across the border.
Still, I very much doubt we're on the verge of a long ceasefire so the end result of this round will still depend on what comes next.
but you do negotiate and swap prisoners
True. I don't mind negotiating peace with anyone either. However, Mozza's argument that Israel should tolerate rockets by gang B as long as gang A claims its not them is beyond ridiculous.
I suppose the Israeli side will need to weigh whether a cease fire would be appropriate if it only results in the ability for Hamas to re-arm and build new tunnels. What do you think of Lieberman's idea of a full on invasion to once and for all get rid of Hamas ?
This whole situation makes a lot of people unsympathetic towards either side.
You start to feel bad for the Palestinians in the Gaza strip and you feel like siding towards them. But then suddenly rather than like most countries with an oppressive, zealous and aggressive regime whereby a regime change is demanded, for Israel the argument is "Nah, that country shouldn't even exist". Any feelings of siding with the Palestinian cause is kind of lost because of all the other overly passionate aggressive supporters of Palestine demanding punishments for Israel that far exceed any other country if in a similar situation simply because it's Israel. And if you believe otherwise apparently you're a Zionist. It's not as if Israel is the first country formed by artificial mass migration. I mean, do people feel sorry for native Americans/Canadians are then demand that America/canada shouldn't exist as a country? Do people constantly bash the Oceanic Governments for reducing the Maori population to practically zero?
If you feel that strongly with regards to Palestine then why not all the 50-100 other countries/races which are put in a similar position?
You start to feel bad for the Palestinians in the Gaza strip and you feel like siding towards them. But then suddenly rather than like most countries with an oppressive, zealous and aggressive regime whereby a regime change is demanded, for Israel the argument is "Nah, that country shouldn't even exist". Any feelings of siding with the Palestinian cause is kind of lost because of all the other overly passionate aggressive supporters of Palestine demanding punishments for Israel that far exceed any other country if in a similar situation simply because it's Israel. And if you believe otherwise apparently you're a Zionist. It's not as if Israel is the first country formed by artificial mass migration. I mean, do people feel sorry for native Americans/Canadians are then demand that America/canada shouldn't exist as a country? Do people constantly bash the Oceanic Governments for reducing the Maori population to practically zero?
If you feel that strongly with regards to Palestine then why not all the 50-100 other countries/races which are put in a similar position?
Because those nations aren't denying 3/4 of the natives citizenship
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
Given this, the sequence of events now reads:
Hamas signs a unity agreement with Fatah, and Israel breaks off negotiations where its attitude had already been criticised by its biggest ally.
Non-government actors kidnap and soon kill 3 Israeli teenagers.
The Israeli government explicitly blames Hamas and makes sure that hope about their survival is kept up
The government starts blowing up houses of Hamas leaders and doing mass arrests, extracting collective punishment. 20 Palestinians are killed.
There are vigilante attacks on Arabs in Israel, including a murder and an assault on an American citizen.
Hamas launches rockets at Israeli civilians, killing 3 civilians over 3 weeks.
Israel 'responds', killing literally a 1000 people, with reportedly 70% civilians among the victims, and ambulances, UN schools, disabled shelters, and hospitals among their favoured targets. 400,000 people are left homeless/displaced.
In the ground invasion, Hamas fighters kill 40 Israeli troops, achieving the inverse of the military:civilian casualty ratio that you would expect from a terrorist organisation.
The Israeli police chief says that the kidnapping was the work of a lone cell and that they "would've known" if Hamas had ordered it.
How is this taken together any better than Bush's lies about Iraq? How can anyone believe that Israel wants peace?
Given this, the sequence of events now reads:
Hamas signs a unity agreement with Fatah, and Israel breaks off negotiations where its attitude had already been criticised by its biggest ally.
Non-government actors kidnap and soon kill 3 Israeli teenagers.
The Israeli government explicitly blames Hamas and makes sure that hope about their survival is kept up
The government starts blowing up houses of Hamas leaders and doing mass arrests, extracting collective punishment. 20 Palestinians are killed.
There are vigilante attacks on Arabs in Israel, including a murder and an assault on an American citizen.
Hamas launches rockets at Israeli civilians, killing 3 civilians over 3 weeks.
Israel 'responds', killing literally a 1000 people, with reportedly 70% civilians among the victims, and ambulances, UN schools, disabled shelters, and hospitals among their favoured targets. 400,000 people are left homeless/displaced.
In the ground invasion, Hamas fighters kill 40 Israeli troops, achieving the inverse of the military:civilian casualty ratio that you would expect from a terrorist organisation.
The Israeli police chief says that the kidnapping was the work of a lone cell and that they "would've known" if Hamas had ordered it.
How is this taken together any better than Bush's lies about Iraq? How can anyone believe that Israel wants peace?