Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

IhabX7 said:
Jewish extremists are lynching us in the streets all over the country. And they are backed by the police. Unbelievable scenes. They are roaming the streets calling death to Arabs and beating up people and destroying Arab owned property. This is the most horrific thing I’ve seen with my own eyes. I almost got killed last night by an armed mob of settlers who came to Haifa where a few hundred of us Arabs protesting peacefully (I documented everything). Then the forces broke up the protest and allowed Jewish settlers, armed Jewish citizens, to attack us. We barely escaped to my office which is located on the same street. Police forces are facilitating Jewish citizens lynch Arab citizens. I’m in total disbelief.
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:( stay safe mate and god bless.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
Evangelical christians who hold to pre-tribulation rapture theology will desire a rapture that supposedly excludes them from all the persecution written by old testament prophets and new testament apostles.
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Bud, there's a separate thread for this.

And again - my comments in this thread were solely directed at the American right wing evangelical voter.
 
RedTiger said:
I feel comforted that so many Jews are abhored by what they're seeing in the comments.
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I’m sure the vast majority of Israelis (never mind Jews in other countries) find any sort of violence towards unarmed civilians abhorrent. Never mind something as sickening as that video.

I can’t work out what’s happening though. Why was that car singled out? Who was the guy getting attacked? And by whom?
 
Carolina Red said:
Bud, there's a separate thread for this.

And again - my comments in this thread were solely directed at the American right wing evangelical voter.
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That's ok, I just wanted to make it plain that the below quote is completely inaccurate.

Foxbatt said:
Yes but their support is not for Israel and the Jews though. They want Armageddon there so Jesus can come and claim the throne and destroy everyone else including The Jews.
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Pogue Mahone said:
I’m sure the vast majority of Israelis (never mind Jews in other countries) find any sort of violence towards unarmed civilians abhorrent. Never mind something as sickening as that video.

I can’t work out what’s happening though. Why was that car singled out? Who was the guy getting attacked? And by whom?
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Palestinian vehicles have green or white plates; Israeli vehicles have yellow plates. This makes it easy to see from afar whether a vehicle is carrying Palestinians or Israelis. The Israeli army uses this to monitor which kind of person is using which kind of road, and to determine which cars to pull over.
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Guess they learned a trick or two from the nazis about making people identify themselves with symbols etc
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m sure the vast majority of Israelis (never mind Jews in other countries) find any sort of violence towards unarmed civilians abhorrent. Never mind something as sickening as that video.

I can’t work out what’s happening though. Why was that car singled out? Who was the guy getting attacked? And by whom?
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You'd think that would be true but I'm often left wondering how it can be the case. This violence isn't exactly occurring spontaneously, it has indirect support.

I don't think that's unique to Israelis though as it seems most countries have a sizeable population with the worst intentions these days. Even if its masked under the normality of getting on with life.
 
sun_tzu said:
Guess they learned a trick or two from the nazis about making people identify themselves with symbols etc
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Can’t be that. There was another car right beside his, also with yellow plates, that drove away unmolested. The first few seconds of the footage would make you wonder if maybe he tried to drive his car into the crowd?
 
As a matter of interest, has it been noted by anyone here that over a thousand missiles have been launched at Israel in the last few days, with the intent of killing as many people as possible?
 
Is there a reason the Arab nations don't support the Palestinians with firepower? Israel is in the surrounded by Muslim countries but the Palestinians don't seem to have any support.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
As a matter of interest, has it been noted by anyone here that over a thousand missiles have been launched at Israel in the last few days, with the intent of killing as many people as possible?
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As a matter of interest, why are you an Israel apologist?
 
Smores said:
You'd think that would be true but I'm often left wondering how it can be the case. This violence isn't exactly occurring spontaneously, it has indirect support.

I don't think that's unique to Israelis though as it seems most countries have a sizeable population with the worst intentions these days. Even if its masked under the normality of getting on with life.
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I’m willing to assume most people are essentially good. But it doesn’t take a very big minority of evil bigots to cause very bad things to happen.

We’re obviously used to this in Ireland. The silent majority just want to get on with their lives peacefully and want the same for everyone else, no matter what religion. It’s the vocal fringe elements that cause all the disorder but they’re only a very tiny % of the overall population.
 
bsCallout said:
Is there a reason the Arab nations don't support the Palestinians with firepower? Israel is in the surrounded by Muslim countries but the Palestinians don't seem to have any support.
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Because Israel has defeated them all in prior military engagements and enjoy the benefit of $4 billion a year in US military aid.
 



Shit like these scenes isn’t helpful. Both sides are actively rioting in the streets.
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
Can’t be that. There was another car right beside his, also with yellow plates, that drove away unmolested. The first few seconds of the footage would make you wonder if maybe he tried to drive his car into the crowd?
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There's a longer video here (very repetitive). You can see the driver reversing away from what seems to be a pursuing crowd. He crashes into the car behind him, then accelerates forward into the crowd that were chasing him. He then crashes into the car in front and the crowd drag him out:

 


Don’t worry about me guys I locked myself up in my apartment since last nights events. Tonight is much much worse. It’s surreal.
 
My word the videos and the images of the mobs marching down the streets.. this is horrifying
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Can’t be that. There was another car right beside his, also with yellow plates, that drove away unmolested. The first few seconds of the footage would make you wonder if maybe he tried to drive his car into the crowd?
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Listen mate you can stop it with the unnecessary skepticism. There’s hundreds of videos like this circling around. It’s police aided lynching all over the country.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
I'm not. I'm simply wondering what Hamas would do with more sophisticated weaponry, and how it would be justified here right now,
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Youve spent your whole time on this thread questioning the behaviour of the Palestinians. You're an Israel apologist.

I'm sure you'd have said Britain was in the wrong for trying to defend Europe against the Germans.
 
neverdie said:
The problem with academia sometimes is that it becomes too bogged down in minutia of processes to the extent that it tends to fetishize small details over the very basic and visceral picture. Sometimes it is important to go through every part of every stage but other times the process just tends to obscure and almost excuse. History ought to be better at its narrative aspect rather than draw equivalences everywhere. Not that you do, but you see it quite generally.
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I acknowledge I have a bias for the importance of detail. However I’m fully with you on the need to remain clear-sighted about the bigger picture - achieving the correct balance in this is one of the primary tasks for anyone attempting to clarify matters.

That doesn’t mean that things cannot be explained in a way accessible to everyone. But I don’t think understanding is served by dishonesty and manipulation, however subtle. This approach I think tends to further entrench the absolutism that already characterizes so much of the debate, and invites a response in kind (e.g. I’ve seen the four maps flipped on pro-Israeli websites to show how Palestinian autonomy apparently only emerged for the first time in history due to Israeli generosity). And for me there can be no civilized end to all this until people can feel ok about climbing down from entrenched, absolutist positions without conceding what they feel is the basic legitimacy of their claim. It’s not about false equivalences, but just acknowledging a shared history from which there is no escape.

In any case, I think peoples’ dismissal of or emphasis on the importance of detail is often dependent on whether it supports or undermines their core assumptions, not a question of principle. (E.g. I’d guess that plenty of people who might dismiss my critique of the maps as missing the bigger picture would have no problem whatsoever with my response to @owlo’s claim earlier - made also and in a slightly different way by Mark Regev in a video posted earlier - that the Mizrachim were basically expelled en masse from the Arab states after 1948).
 
africanspur said:
To be honest, I'm quite uncomfortable with this line of approach and always have been.

For me, it follows the same line of thinking of 'when was there a country called Palestine before? Who are the Palestinians?' as a way to delegitimise their claims.

Most contemporary countries did not exist in their current borders until relatively recently, due to the ebb and flow of various empires. Most land would not have been owned in the same way as it is now either. I imagine many people of even a few hundred years ago would not necessarily associate themselves with a nation state as we do now.

Yet in almost no other cases, in most polite conversation, would it be acceptable to say now for instance that it would have been acceptable for large scale migration to Myanmar or Mozambique. Or that if it had happened, well tough because how much or little of the land was owned by the population living there at the time.

I know its not your intention per se but for me, the underlying message whenever people usually put this forward is to suggest that there were no problems with what happened because the 'Palestinians' never really owned the land anyway and the Jews were settling totally empty space.
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Your post actually nicely illustrates one problem with the maps as they are presented. The line of approach and claims on a very specific and important aspect of the history of the topic - control of land - are set/determined by the maps themselves and the way they are presented, not by my response. Yet it is impossible to critique them without getting dragged into the mud and apparently appearing to endorse an alternative narrative which I also actually reject. That is often the case in challenging propaganda and clarifying history unfortunately. But for the reasons given above to @neverdie I believe it’s something worth doing.
 
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