Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

I saw a tweet that mentioned that 92% of the dead in Gaza are civilians.

Hamas deaths represent the real "collateral damage" here!
 
Raven said:
But they are part of a coalition government with Likud and they do sit in the cabinet. Likud clearly has no problem with characters like these
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There are similar characters in Likud right now, perhaps not quite as extreme. But historically Likud have shunned Kahanists, and the current alliance is primarily a product of Netanyahu’s desperation to stay in power (and hence out of prison).

Dirty Schwein said:
Do they not sit within the Likud/governmental coalition? Unless I've got that completely wrong.
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Yes they are part of the current ruling coalition.
 
2cents said:
There are similar characters in Likud right now, perhaps not quite as extreme. But historically Likud have shunned Kahanists, and the current alliance is primarily a product of Netanyahu’s desperation to stay in power (and hence out of prison).



Yes they are part of the current ruling coalition.
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So has Netenyahu got supreme power? Why has Likud not ousted him for the multitude of crimes he's commited, let alone allowing these nut jobs into the decision making process?
 
2cents said:
So the claim here which you seem to have endorsed is that IDF troops have dug up buried bodies from the courtyard of the hospital so that their organs may be harvested back in Israel. Does that seem likely to you?
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Endorsed? What an odd ascertion.

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...ans-permission-families-dead/story?id=9390407

I just realise that things that have happened before, which were denied and and whom reported on such were cast as antisemites, might still happen.

There are reports that it's happening, it could be true. The context is, Israel has admitted to doing this previously, so perhaps it's not so far fetched.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Endorsed? What an odd ascertion.

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...ans-permission-families-dead/story?id=9390407

I just realise that things that have happened before, which were denied and and whom reported on such were cast as antisemites, might still happen.

There are reports that it's happening, it could be true. The context is, Israel has admitted to doing this previously, so perhaps it's not so far fetched.
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My guess is it's interpreted as a story of Israel specifically doing this on Palestinians. But the article mentions that it happened to bodies of Israeli soldiers too.
 
VorZakone said:
My guess is it's interpreted as a story of Israel specifically doing this on Palestinians. But the article mentions that it happened to bodies of Israeli soldiers too.
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I understand that but they denied it vehemently. Until they didn't and admitted to it.

Note; all nations do this, they lie.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Endorsed? What an odd ascertion.

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...ans-permission-families-dead/story?id=9390407

I just realise that things that have happened before, which were denied and and whom reported on such were cast as antisemites, might still happen.

There are reports that it's happening, it could be true. The context is, Israel has admitted to doing this previously, so perhaps it's not so far fetched.
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When you post something like that with no comment there’s a possibility it will be seen as an endorsement. You posted a tweet which implied a clear connection between a story that broke in 2009 (which contrary to your subsequent assertion was widely covered in Western media at the time) detailing cases of organ harvesting that occurred at a particular institute during the 90s, and a claim from a completely random Twitter account that Al Shifa hospital has reported that IDF have exhumed bodies there. The implied connection - that the IDF has dug up bodies in order to harvest their organs - is a fantastical jump to make based on the evidence presented.
 
glazed said:
What exactly do you mean by Martyr? That he died for Islam?
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I am not an expert in religion. But According to Islamic scholars, no. You only considerd a Martyr if you die in a pandemic, drwoning, get killed away from your home/family/money and last if you die for the sake of God. No mention of the word Islam.
 
That_Bloke said:
I think that you might check again what martyr means.

And the fact that this is what you chose to harp on is kind of sad.
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I'm asking the question. I checked what it meant. It means different things to different people. In this context it appears to be a religious reference but I was seeking clarification.

RedTiger said:
You don't have to die for Islam to be a matryr, just a cause. I live near the site of some very famous British martyrs called the Puddletown martyrs and they didn't die for religion either.
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So famous you got their name wrong.

Scarlett Dracarys said:
And what if he did? Is there something wrong with dying for what you believe in?
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Or what the OP believes in since he applied the title
 
glazed said:
I'm asking the question. I checked what it meant. It means different things to different people. In this context it appears to be a religious reference but I was seeking clarification.



So famous you got their name wrong.



Or what the OP believes in since he applied the title
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Where did he make a religious reference? You're the one who mentioned Islam.
 
The Armenian community in Jerusalem faces an existential threat

The Armenian Quarter, representing 1/6 of the Old City, has been inhabited by Armenians since the 4th century during the inception of Christian pilgrimages to Jerusalem, adding to its historical and cultural richness.
On November 4, 2023, Armenian residents peacefully protested illegal construction within their Quarter. Things turned confrontational when armed settlers arrived, prompting police intervention. The next day, Xana Gardens Ltd, linked to the controversial deal, showed up with Danny Rothman (aka Danny Rubenstein)—the Australian owner of Xana Gardens Ltd and allegedly demanded the Armenians’ expulsion.
Reports suggest Rothman aimed to purchase 13-percent of the Armenian Quarter for a luxury hotel, endangering many Armenian homes.


https://armenianweekly.com/2023/11/...ity-in-jerusalem-faces-an-existential-threat/

It's a buy one get one free offer on Armenians in 2023!
 
Scarlett Dracarys said:
Where did he make a religious reference? You're the one who mentioned Islam.
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A martyr is usually a person who is killed because of their religious beliefs. That's how the phrase is normally used in context of this conflict. That's why I asked the OP to clarify. Let's see if he has the courage of his convictions or just using provocative dog whistle language while pretending he wasn't.
 
glazed said:
A martyr is usually a person who is killed because of their religious beliefs. That's how the phrase is normally used in context of this conflict. That's why I asked the OP to clarify. Let's see if he has the courage of his convictions or just using provocative dog whistle language while pretending he wasn't.
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What's the dog whistle here exactly?
 
glazed said:
A martyr is usually a person who is killed because of their religious beliefs. That's how the phrase is normally used in context of this conflict. That's why I asked the OP to clarify. Let's see if he has the courage of his convictions or just using provocative dog whistle language while pretending he wasn't.
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No, that's not what martyr means.
 
Beachryan said:
I feel like a few thousand Hamas members failed to read up on the new, shall we say, friendlier Charter if Oct 7th was any indication. Similarly, Netanyahu is hardly upholding the founding principles of Likud.

The passage usually used as evidence of Hamas feeling towards Judaism is the one about even the trees and stones telling the jihadists there are Jews hiding behind them, as to ensure easier murdering.

Relgioins kinda suck eh?
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FYI the passage Hamas use, wrongly, is one prophecy of battles that will happen at the times of the coming of Dajjal/anti Christ.

This one battle will be in Jerusalem fought by a returning Jesus/the Messiah and his followers against a Jewish sect of 70k wearing green shawls and crowns. There are Hadith and commentaries that explain that this will not be "All Jews" . Those fighting this sect will include Jews, Muslims and Christians who will be now just "believers" who are on the side of the Messiah.

There are other hadiths about other battles during this time. Including the armies from Mecca and Madinah that will side with Dajjal.

In fact the Hadith say that Dajjal will rise and lead an army from a group of Muslims known/called as Khawarij. A group who will outwardly look Muslim but their faith will "not be going past their throats" as in present themselves as believers but fake.
 
glazed said:
A martyr is usually a person who is killed because of their religious beliefs. That's how the phrase is normally used in context of this conflict. That's why I asked the OP to clarify. Let's see if he has the courage of his convictions or just using provocative dog whistle language while pretending he wasn't.
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No.
 
Raven said:
No, that's not what martyr means.
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Do tell. That's how westerners use it. Using it to refer to anyone killed by Israel is a partisan practice used by Islamists and before that the PLO.
 
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glazed said:
A martyr is usually a person who is killed because of their religious beliefs. That's how the phrase is normally used in context of this conflict. That's why I asked the OP to clarify. Let's see if he has the courage of his convictions or just using provocative dog whistle language while pretending he wasn't.
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You can be a martyr if you died for a principle or a profession too.
 
2cents said:
When you post something like that with no comment there’s a possibility it will be seen as an endorsement. You posted a tweet which implied a clear connection between a story that broke in 2009 (which contrary to your subsequent assertion was widely covered in Western media at the time) detailing cases of organ harvesting that occurred at a particular institute during the 90s, and a claim from a completely random Twitter account that Al Shifa hospital has reported that IDF have exhumed bodies there. The implied connection - that the IDF has dug up bodies in order to harvest their organs - is a fantastical jump to make based on the evidence presented.
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You're right, it's totally fantastical.
 
Raven said:
I'm a westerner and have never understood it by that meaning. To me it means dying for something you believe in.
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Well there's no evidence this Doctor did that. He was killed by an air strike in so far as the tweet is accurate. He had no agency in the matter that we know of.

The wider problem of using religious terminology to describe this conflict is that it makes an end less likely. Because while it is possible (though very difficult) for Israel to come to some kind of meaningful settlement with a secular Palestinian political body, an Islamist body is much more likely to refuse any form of compromise over land sharing, giving rise to the kind of death cults you see in Hamas. At which point the Israelis think 'why bother trying?' and you get what we've now got.
 
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glazed said:
Well there's no evidence this Doctor did that. He was killed by an air strike in so far as the tweet is accurate. He had no agency in the matter that we know of.
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Yes, he died trying to save lives in Gaza, something he clearly believed in, hence martyr. How are you not connecting these dots?
 
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