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Genocidal maniacs don't do half measures.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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Genocidal maniacs don't do half measures.
I think this is from the ”french Fox news”…
Germany's the second most bitch made country in Europe, after the UK. The integrity of wet toilet paper.
What’s a more accurate way to describe this news channel? Is it less conservative less far right?
It's not politically marked, so not conservative, nor far right, nor centrist, nor leftist or communist. The only channels that are historically marked are TF1 and France 2, the former tend to lean toward the traditional french right( former RPR) and France 2 have generally leaned toward the PS but you only see it around elections because these channels are generalist most of their programms aren't political.
The actual news channels are balanced, you will see everyone and everything in equal measure.
Over 10,000 dead now in Palestine. Unforgiveable war crimes still ongoing.
There is no point to your "point".
You can't reasonably expect from the palestinian side, or any side for that matter, to agree to an accord that:
- Only gives them, at best, 97% of the 22% of their original territory.
- Allows Israel to control every single strategic road leading in and out of Palestine with the ability to close them at leisure.
- Takes away the most fertile and strategic region they're entitled to (hint: the Jordan Valley).
- Takes away the control of their borders.
- Takes away the control of their airspace.
- Takes away the sovereignty of what the Palestinians consider their legitimate capital (hint: East-Jerusalem).
- Allows Israel to build radar stations on Palestinian territory.
- Forbids Palestine to build any international alliance with any country, without Israel's consent.
- Forbids Palestine to have any kind of military force.
- Forbids the Palestinian refugees driven out during the Nakba to return to their homes.
- To top it all, the Palestinians will be forbidden to make any further revendication once they sign this incredibly generous accord.
And I haven't even touched on the settlements.
So tell me, in your infinite wisdom, how the fvck is that supposed to work? How the the blazing hells could it be considered as a reasonable basis for an independent, functioning state? How is that supposed to improve the long-term welfare of the Palestinians? Why the fvck would Arafat have put his pen on the paper without buying a bullet for his and his own country's head?
If you go by "might is right" and consider the living hell that Gaza was and currently is, as well the West Bank to a lesser extent, then sure, it's an improvement. However it's not quite the bar I'd refer to or what the Palestinians have fought for. Or anything decent if we go by international laws. It also would simply leave "Palestine" at the eternal mercy of its de facto occupier. And as far as I know, Israel doesn't deal with Gandhis.
Camp David never had a chance. It was rushed, ill-thought and ill-timed. None of the parties were ready to make the necessary concessions to make it viable in the long-term. Period. You and many others are living in La-la-land if you truly think that it was the opportunity to shake things up and make them better.
But as you said, let's agree to disagree. I'm not going to change your opinion and you're not going to change mine.
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If I understand things well, they have to give affiliated politicians reasonably equal time according to some rules…
But they are free to employ who they want as political pundits. And this channel in particular seems to be a right wing/far right one?
This is what Wikipedia says about it?
I liked one of the comments under the video that says the fact that France speaks French has shielded it from the criticism that the English speaking nations get for their hypocritical rhetoric and actions.
If I understand things well, they have to give affiliated politicians reasonably equal time according to some rules…
But they are free to employ who they want as political pundits. And this channel in particular seems to be a right wing/far right one?
This is what Wikipedia says about it?
That's bullshit. None of the news channel promote a particular movement, some people have an issue with any channel that has a guest or a pundit that don't align with their view regardless of the actual content, Zémmour has been clowned on pretty much every channel including CNews. A few years ago the same nonsense was said about BFM and Bourdain even though Bourdain would invite FN/RN politicians just to make a mockery of them.
In France it is the newspapers that are heavily marked.
Israel could indeed facilitate a 2 state solution but Hamas doesn't want one. Your magic wand has a bit more work to do, unfortunately,
If you had a different tone, I'd be willing to engage with you more but I'm not wasting my time when you write like the first bold. The second bold is exactly my point. It would have been an improvement over what currently exists. If that's not the bar you want, fair enough but realistically I don't see a way for the bar you want to have actually happened. And I don't see any reasonable way that agreement would have empowered the extremist elements more on both sides than they have already been empowered. Posts that say the US could just force Israel to negotiate a better deal with the Palestinians are a great idea, but ultimately unrealistic. I'd love it if the US would actually do that, but the reality is, for many reasons, the US was not going to force Israel into better deals. That's not what most of us want, but it is the tragic reality of the situation.
So have a good day.
Oh, I should add the reason I see the Camp David talks as the last opportunity for a deal was because that was the last opportunity pre-9/11. Post-9/11 there simply wasn't/isn't any will on the part of the US to try to force Israel to make greater concessions.
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The differences, which are down to the reasons, the strategic calculations, the alliances, the interests in play, the politics of it - those all matter a great deal. States may very well act hypocritically. Well OK if the label makes you feel better then go for it, but it doesn't get you anywhere - it's just an over simplified and not very useful way of viewing the world.
What was the Ukrainian equivalent to Hamas again?
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They have influence, arguably they are doing their best to use it (while deterring Iran to stop it becoming a wider regional war, which is what the US really really cares about), but they don't have the ability to impose a solution. It has to be a result of negotiation between the Palestinians and Israel. Not between the US and Israel. The US can facilitate it. They can probably do all kinds of things to sweeten a deal. It is possible an Israel without any US support, alone, no allies, completely isolated, would feel no constraints on its actions at all. And nor for that matter would Israel's enemies - what do you think they might do to a weakened isolated Israel, based on past experience. You think it's bad now with US backing? Imagine how bad it could be without.
So what constraints are they under currently?
Good. Biden 100% should be calling this out, and putting all the pressure on Netanyahu to stop, and stop immediately.
What they say is basically the point I made today or at least tried to make. The bias is obvious and it's even worse when people don't even believe the positions they embrace publicly.
I never mentioned Hamas.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/02/...tion-warning-israel-gaza-civilians/index.html
They are being told by the US this can't go on (the US which currently has two aircraft carriers protecting Israel from further external attack.) They would be wise to listen.
My wider point about how dangerous an isolated Israel would be for Middle East stability, stands.
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Yeah because reasons, got it.
I find it very useful actually, it cuts through the bullshit people delude themselves with. It's calling it like it is, a nuclear power bombing the shit out of a civilian population in both cases.
I had a similar thought. The reasons exposes a bias which is useful when you have to assess the position of a side that claims being on the righteous side. Those reasons should make you pause and think about the situation on your own.
I agree that the French media is generally more balanced than in the U.S. However, I do find C News clearly on the right. Maybe not like Fox News in the U.S., but still on right.
I mean the bar is pretty low then, 'only' 10k deaths later (more than half being women and children) and that's before the destruction of all the civilian infrastructure and other nefarious stuff like destroying fishing boats as side missions. It's like pulling your dog of someone just before it has almost ravaged the victim to death.
Then there's also the other matter of ignoring the apartheid and land grabbing over the years.
The most dangerous country in the world with Russia and the US.
The Azov Brigade? And there are credible reports that Ukraine did, before the invasion, torture and subject to sexual abuse suspected pro-Russian prisoners. They were also pretty indiscriminately shelling towns and cities in Donetsk and Luhansk with little care for the civilians there.
I've got a 7 month boy and after watching this I'm barely holding tears. My wife walked into the room and I immediately closed the window so she wouldn't see it. I don't think she could handle it.
If this is defending it self, I wonder what is actually carnage?
I know how you feel. My daughter turned 1 last Saturday and I’ve seen so many videos in the last two weeks of fathers holding their infant babies lifeless bodies. Imagine - I can’t even bring myself to post those ones.
Israel have killed over 3,000 kids in the last 3 weeks. It’s madness and wanton destruction. They have to be brought to heel by the US.
I just want to add the almost everyone keeps talking about the number of dead children but no one remembers the 1000s of maimed children who will never lead a normal physical life.
‘Self defence’
It's not just that, even the ones who survive won't have anything to look forward to. That's the reason children and anything related to them are being targeted. The aim is to make Gaza inhabitable to its young population above anything else. It's terrorism and ethnic cleansing disguised as a war.
And the 1,000s and 1,000s that will have PTSD, trauma and persisting mental health problems for the rest of their lives. It’s a horrible situation for them.
https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2023/11/06/palestine-children-ptsd
Plus all the ones made orphans, some have had their entire family wiped out.