I forget your strangely purist family doesn't have any Arab in it.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
I forget your strangely purist family doesn't have any Arab in it.
Be quiet you half blood.
Haider al-Abadi, right, shook hands with Iraq’s president, Fuad Masum, who nominated Mr. Abadi as a candidate on Monday to replace Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki.
Are you from Iraq?
Last I heard he was from Morocco. He's probably from Jordan now.
Yes.
The Iraqi constitution states that the Iraqi president (Masoom) should ask the biggest parliamentary bloc to form the government. The wording of this part of the constitution was a source of some confusion last term, but the supreme court clarified that the word "parliamentary" (not electoral) refers to the blocs inside the parliament, not the ones taking part in the elections, which opens the door for the formation of new blocs before the first parliamentary session which allows individual blocs to unite and register itself as a single bloc in the parliament.
The problem in this case, Al-Maliki's bloc is by far the biggest electoral bloc in this election (with 95 seats, the second list with ~30), and even if the Shia formed a bigger bloc his list will still have the majority inside the coalition, and will get to decide their candidate for PM.
That's why by following the constitution Masoom does have to ask Maliki (as the leader of the biggest list) to try and form a government (with a time frame I think), and if he fails then he should either go to the second list and ask them to try and form the government or hold new elections.
What Masoom did is he chose a member of Maliki's list, Al-Ibadi (without the consent of the leadership or even the members of the list) who had the support of other lists and asked him to form the government. I don't think that's possible if you follow the constitution, but the supreme court will have to look into it to see if there is any legal ground to it.
Helicopter carrying aid to Shingal mountain crashes, killing the pilot. 30 wounded.
Except Maliki failed to form a bloc that would allow him to form a government by Sunday night. A number of his own coalition members have abandoned him and know that he has no chance of creating a government. If he had been given the request to form a government, it would have been a wasted month of ISIS advancing further while al-Maliki continued to do nothing. Also, why would the leader of the largest political party be deemed the largest bloc if many of those within his party didn't support him? 50 of his 95 seats voted to nominate al-Abadi and not their purported leader.
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But IS are clearly doing it under the name of Islam.
He's pretty much lost support within Iraqi circles, and now the Obama administration when they called Abadi to congratulate him.
Its gets even funnier....
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-backs-choice-iraq-pm-top-official-says-100300917.html
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-backs-choice-iraq-pm-top-official-says-100300917.html
Iran had given up on Maliki for some time now.
Seems all sides pretty much have.
I bet Danny has a poster of Maliki shirtless in a river above his bed now that the US opposes him.
What a spectacle.
Maliki isn't a bad guy, he's just not a competent leader. The Iraqis need someone who is a bit less sectarian and beholden to the interests of their political party. Not sure if this new fella is the right guy, but just having someone other than Maliki will probably reinvigorate Iraqi politics and get them a bit more focused on ISIS.
He's a bit of a bellend though, you have to give him that.
Haider al-Abadi, right, shook hands with Iraq’s president, Fuad Masum, who nominated Mr. Abadi as a candidate on Monday to replace Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki.
Abadi has been my favourite for quite a while
Maybe he will be a bit like Mithal al-Alusi
Except you don't know what the Sunday night deadline was about. The Sunday deadline was for Masoom to formally ask the biggest bloc to form the government, and it's actually another (minor) issue Maliki is raising against Masoom in the court (he formally asked Ibadi to form the government after the deadline past). The Sunday deadline actually works against Masoom, not against Maliki.
You can have your own opinion/political stance, but that doesn't change what's written in the constitution. You asked what are the legal grounds that Maliki is taking this now to the court, and I answered you.
Taking the matter to the court is a good step for the future imo, because it will clarify the legal basis for nominating Al-Ibadi for future reference. If it's left vague then it will leave things unexplained, and it could have a negative effect on the respect the political entities give to the constitution. Every politician must understand that no matter what, and regardless how important it is what he wants to do, and how many people wants to do it, he must find a legal ground that is compatible with the constitution to do it. Last term they also went to the court and after it explained the situation from a legal point of view there was no confusion about that issue this time around and everybody took the previous court decision as a given.
As for your last question, I don't know exactly how that's decided (which is why it's a good idea to go to the court). But what I know is that you can't just pick 120 random names from different lists and claim that you're the biggest bloc. You have to be already formally declared as a single bloc in the parliament to be able to claim that you're the biggest bloc. I don't know though how the internal system in Maliki's list work.
Reports that the Iraqi army is making big advances in Jurf Al-Sakhar (which is a crucial town South West of Baghdad).
Also sad news as the Iraqi member of parliament Vian Dakheel (which pleaded earlier to the parliament to save the Yazidis) was injured (along with 20 other Yazidis) in a helicopter crash when they were evacuating trapped Yazidis in Sinjar. The pilot was killed in the accident. Reason not 100% confirmed, but most suggest it was a technical issue.
Also sad news as the Iraqi member of parliament Vian Dakheel (which pleaded earlier to the parliament to save the Yazidis) was injured (along with 20 other Yazidis) in a helicopter crash when they were evacuating trapped Yazidis in Sinjar. The pilot was killed in the accident. Reason not 100% confirmed, but most suggest it was a technical issue.
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Maliki is stepping down apparently. A good move for all parties involved.
In West Asia, a faith under siege
Recent political upheavals and extremist-backed violence in the West Asian region, particularly in Syria and Iraq in the aftermath of the Arab Spring, have further complicated and aggravated the situation for the already dwindling Arab Christian community
The problems of the Christian community in West Asia are very complex. The recent political upheavals in the region, particularly in Syria and Iraq in the aftermath of the Arab Spring, have further complicated and aggravated the situation for the already dwindling community. Iraq is home to the world’s ancient Arab Christian communities and had a sizeable Christian population of nearly 1.2 million prior to the American invasion in 2003. Ironically, after the occupation of Iraq by American-led allied forces, the rise in attacks on churches and Christian institutions by extremist groups has become unprecedented. The American invasion has aggravated the perception of Christians being the agents of the United States. According to church sources, the Christian community in Iraq has now been reduced to a population of 4,50,000. This is largely due to the absence of a democratic and secular political system.
ISIS threat
Presently, the strengthening of Islamic militant groups, particularly the ascendancy of the al-Qaeda-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) has led to the mass exodus of the Christian community from Iraq. Ever since the establishment of the Islamic State, ISIS has stepped up its attacks against the Shiite, Christian and Yazidi communities. Mosul, which is the stronghold of ISIS, is one of the ancient Christian cities in the region and is believed to be the birthplace of the Biblical prophet Jonah. Ironically, since the beginning of June, ISIS militants have torched hundreds of Shia tombs and churches including the tomb of Jonah. Hundreds of Christians and Shiites have been killed and women raped by extremist forces; nuns have been kidnapped from monasteries. Last month, ISIS issued an ultimatum to the Christian community — either convert to Islam, pay a religious tax or “jizya,” or die.
The ISIS declaration states that “we offered them three choices: Islam, the dhimma contract — involving the payment of jizya: if they refuse they have nothing but the sword.” Moreover, Christian houses, buildings and shops have been marked with the Arabic letter “N” as it stands for “Nazarene,” the Koranic word for Christians. At the same time, Shiite homes have been marked with the letter “R” which means “rwadish” (rejecters). This ultimatum has led to the mass exodus of the Christian population to the Kurdish cities of Dohuk and Irbil, which has invariably ended the centuries-old peaceful coexistence among communities and the fraying of the secular fabric of Iraqi society. Incongruously, ISIS has reiterated that there is no space for Christians in the Islamic State. Mosul, which had a sizeable Christian population of 60,000, has now been reduced to a few families. Iraq was one of the peaceful havens of Christian communities and has sent numerous bishops and patriarchs to various orthodox sects.
During my field research in West Asia, the common response of Iraqi nuns and priests of Bethlehem was: “We were very safe in Iraq under Saddam Hussein but the American occupation has made our position very horrible.”
In his recent appeal to the Iraqi community, the Chaldean Patriarch of Baghdad pointed out that “Christian and Muslim blood has been mixed as it was shed in the defence of their rights and lands. Together they built a civilization, cities and a heritage.”
The situation is not as different in Syria, as ISIS first experimented with its fatwa to “convert, pay tax or die” in the Syrian city of Raqqa. Like Iraq, Syria is another West Asian country where Christians have lived peacefully for centuries. The al-Qaeda-oriented anti-regime rebels have attacked the Christian community mercilessly in many parts of Syria; hundreds of Christian properties and churches have been razed to the ground. In Syria, Christians have been accused of being the supporters of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad by extremists who have kidnapped two bishops belonging to the Syrian Orthodox Church and the Greek Orthodox Church. Their whereabouts are still unknown. Furthermore, most Christian cities like Aleppo, Homs and Ma’loula have fallen into rebel hands which has further intensified the persecution of the community.
Deep roots, ancient denominations
West Asia is the birthplace of Christianity and home to some of the world’s most ancient Christian denominations — the Maronite Church, Greek Orthodox, Chaldean, Nestorian, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic, Assyrian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic and so on. The Arab Christians are one of the main victims of the volatile and unstable political situation in West Asia. The colonial “God trick” of nation-state creation and the carving out of modern Arab states have made Arab Christians victims of a potent combination of colonial and ethno-religious geopolitics. Arabic-speaking Christians have been marginalised in the region due to various socio-political and historical developments like Islamisation, extremism, massive migration, poverty and terrorism.
The Arab Christian community has always boasted of a deep literary, cultural, spiritual and historical heritage and tradition. Today, it faces the threat of oblivion, with its rights getting trampled. The Christians were never lonely travellers in the Arab street. They have traditionally been connected with major socio-political movements like Pan Arabism, Ba'athism, Communism and the various West Asian liberation movements, including the Palestine Movement. The Christian community is an educated group with most of its members engaged in business and professional jobs, mainly because of its proximity to Christian missionaries, largely from Europe.
At present, the community is trying hard to prove its nationalism and allegiance to the West Asian movements as it is very difficult to identify itself with Islamic groups. A recent study shows that a majority of people in the community are planning to migrate to western nations out of a sense of fear and a lack of “belonging.” The conflict over reclaiming space and the Arab Christian identity in the region, especially in Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Iraq is therefore an issue of contemporary relevance in West Asian geopolitics and deserves a detailed examination for policy implications and peace negotiations here.
The Christians of Palestine/Israel were in the forefront of the Palestine movement and many paid for it with life and limb in the struggle. The Arab Christians are also victims of five decades of Israeli occupation, with the boundary wall between Israel and Palestine greatly affecting the Christian community living on both sides of the divide. Spitting at clergies by orthodox Jews, especially Yeshiva students, is a recurrent phenomenon in Israel. Many a Jerusalem clergy has been subjected to abuse of this kind.
Policies of the West
The ever-increasing clout of Evangelical Christians of the West and their unqualified support for Israel has in recent years drowned out the voices of Arab Christians in West Asia, who are now subject to suppression by multiple forces. While Arab Christians are fighting Israel’s repressive measures, paradoxically, the white American churches in the U.S. are propagating the idea of a “Biblical Israel” and directly supporting the Israeli occupation of Palestine. The notion of a Biblical Israel was coined by the American Episcopal Church in the 1970s and it also had the indirect support of the U.S. administration to justify enormous financial support to Israel. The conservative Christians in the U.S., particularly the Republican supporters, believe that the unequivocal support for Israel fulfils a Biblical injunction to protect the Jewish State. It is an insular and strategic philosophy to justify the occupation of Israel through the lens of the Bible, and American tele-evangelists often lay stress on this aspect. Hence, the parochial approach of western Christian groups further aggravates the volatile atmosphere for the Christian community back in West Asia.
The wayward interference of the West and the Israeli occupation of Palestine are the most important reasons for the terminal decline of Christian life and livelihood in the region. The West, with its short-term military gestures and quest for immediate pay-offs, has deepened the divide between the two communities which once lived peacefully in the region.
The unprecedented attacks on Arab Christians have resulted in the mass exodus of the community with thousands now having taken refuge in the Scandinavian, Latin American and European countries. The narrow policies of the West with hidden political interests have damaged the progressive and secular fabric of West Asian society to a great extent. The ancient Christian community is fast becoming extinct. If this trend continues, Christians will have no other choice but to leave en masse from their homeland.
(Ginu Zacharia Oommen is a junior fellow at the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, Teenmurti House, New Delhi.)
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lea...-under-siege/article6309536.ece?homepage=true
Recent political upheavals and extremist-backed violence in the West Asian region, particularly in Syria and Iraq in the aftermath of the Arab Spring, have further complicated and aggravated the situation for the already dwindling Arab Christian community
The problems of the Christian community in West Asia are very complex. The recent political upheavals in the region, particularly in Syria and Iraq in the aftermath of the Arab Spring, have further complicated and aggravated the situation for the already dwindling community. Iraq is home to the world’s ancient Arab Christian communities and had a sizeable Christian population of nearly 1.2 million prior to the American invasion in 2003. Ironically, after the occupation of Iraq by American-led allied forces, the rise in attacks on churches and Christian institutions by extremist groups has become unprecedented. The American invasion has aggravated the perception of Christians being the agents of the United States. According to church sources, the Christian community in Iraq has now been reduced to a population of 4,50,000. This is largely due to the absence of a democratic and secular political system.
ISIS threat
Presently, the strengthening of Islamic militant groups, particularly the ascendancy of the al-Qaeda-inspired Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) has led to the mass exodus of the Christian community from Iraq. Ever since the establishment of the Islamic State, ISIS has stepped up its attacks against the Shiite, Christian and Yazidi communities. Mosul, which is the stronghold of ISIS, is one of the ancient Christian cities in the region and is believed to be the birthplace of the Biblical prophet Jonah. Ironically, since the beginning of June, ISIS militants have torched hundreds of Shia tombs and churches including the tomb of Jonah. Hundreds of Christians and Shiites have been killed and women raped by extremist forces; nuns have been kidnapped from monasteries. Last month, ISIS issued an ultimatum to the Christian community — either convert to Islam, pay a religious tax or “jizya,” or die.
The ISIS declaration states that “we offered them three choices: Islam, the dhimma contract — involving the payment of jizya: if they refuse they have nothing but the sword.” Moreover, Christian houses, buildings and shops have been marked with the Arabic letter “N” as it stands for “Nazarene,” the Koranic word for Christians. At the same time, Shiite homes have been marked with the letter “R” which means “rwadish” (rejecters). This ultimatum has led to the mass exodus of the Christian population to the Kurdish cities of Dohuk and Irbil, which has invariably ended the centuries-old peaceful coexistence among communities and the fraying of the secular fabric of Iraqi society. Incongruously, ISIS has reiterated that there is no space for Christians in the Islamic State. Mosul, which had a sizeable Christian population of 60,000, has now been reduced to a few families. Iraq was one of the peaceful havens of Christian communities and has sent numerous bishops and patriarchs to various orthodox sects.
During my field research in West Asia, the common response of Iraqi nuns and priests of Bethlehem was: “We were very safe in Iraq under Saddam Hussein but the American occupation has made our position very horrible.”
In his recent appeal to the Iraqi community, the Chaldean Patriarch of Baghdad pointed out that “Christian and Muslim blood has been mixed as it was shed in the defence of their rights and lands. Together they built a civilization, cities and a heritage.”
The situation is not as different in Syria, as ISIS first experimented with its fatwa to “convert, pay tax or die” in the Syrian city of Raqqa. Like Iraq, Syria is another West Asian country where Christians have lived peacefully for centuries. The al-Qaeda-oriented anti-regime rebels have attacked the Christian community mercilessly in many parts of Syria; hundreds of Christian properties and churches have been razed to the ground. In Syria, Christians have been accused of being the supporters of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad by extremists who have kidnapped two bishops belonging to the Syrian Orthodox Church and the Greek Orthodox Church. Their whereabouts are still unknown. Furthermore, most Christian cities like Aleppo, Homs and Ma’loula have fallen into rebel hands which has further intensified the persecution of the community.
Deep roots, ancient denominations
West Asia is the birthplace of Christianity and home to some of the world’s most ancient Christian denominations — the Maronite Church, Greek Orthodox, Chaldean, Nestorian, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic, Assyrian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic and so on. The Arab Christians are one of the main victims of the volatile and unstable political situation in West Asia. The colonial “God trick” of nation-state creation and the carving out of modern Arab states have made Arab Christians victims of a potent combination of colonial and ethno-religious geopolitics. Arabic-speaking Christians have been marginalised in the region due to various socio-political and historical developments like Islamisation, extremism, massive migration, poverty and terrorism.
The Arab Christian community has always boasted of a deep literary, cultural, spiritual and historical heritage and tradition. Today, it faces the threat of oblivion, with its rights getting trampled. The Christians were never lonely travellers in the Arab street. They have traditionally been connected with major socio-political movements like Pan Arabism, Ba'athism, Communism and the various West Asian liberation movements, including the Palestine Movement. The Christian community is an educated group with most of its members engaged in business and professional jobs, mainly because of its proximity to Christian missionaries, largely from Europe.
At present, the community is trying hard to prove its nationalism and allegiance to the West Asian movements as it is very difficult to identify itself with Islamic groups. A recent study shows that a majority of people in the community are planning to migrate to western nations out of a sense of fear and a lack of “belonging.” The conflict over reclaiming space and the Arab Christian identity in the region, especially in Syria, Palestine, Egypt and Iraq is therefore an issue of contemporary relevance in West Asian geopolitics and deserves a detailed examination for policy implications and peace negotiations here.
The Christians of Palestine/Israel were in the forefront of the Palestine movement and many paid for it with life and limb in the struggle. The Arab Christians are also victims of five decades of Israeli occupation, with the boundary wall between Israel and Palestine greatly affecting the Christian community living on both sides of the divide. Spitting at clergies by orthodox Jews, especially Yeshiva students, is a recurrent phenomenon in Israel. Many a Jerusalem clergy has been subjected to abuse of this kind.
Policies of the West
The ever-increasing clout of Evangelical Christians of the West and their unqualified support for Israel has in recent years drowned out the voices of Arab Christians in West Asia, who are now subject to suppression by multiple forces. While Arab Christians are fighting Israel’s repressive measures, paradoxically, the white American churches in the U.S. are propagating the idea of a “Biblical Israel” and directly supporting the Israeli occupation of Palestine. The notion of a Biblical Israel was coined by the American Episcopal Church in the 1970s and it also had the indirect support of the U.S. administration to justify enormous financial support to Israel. The conservative Christians in the U.S., particularly the Republican supporters, believe that the unequivocal support for Israel fulfils a Biblical injunction to protect the Jewish State. It is an insular and strategic philosophy to justify the occupation of Israel through the lens of the Bible, and American tele-evangelists often lay stress on this aspect. Hence, the parochial approach of western Christian groups further aggravates the volatile atmosphere for the Christian community back in West Asia.
The wayward interference of the West and the Israeli occupation of Palestine are the most important reasons for the terminal decline of Christian life and livelihood in the region. The West, with its short-term military gestures and quest for immediate pay-offs, has deepened the divide between the two communities which once lived peacefully in the region.
The unprecedented attacks on Arab Christians have resulted in the mass exodus of the community with thousands now having taken refuge in the Scandinavian, Latin American and European countries. The narrow policies of the West with hidden political interests have damaged the progressive and secular fabric of West Asian society to a great extent. The ancient Christian community is fast becoming extinct. If this trend continues, Christians will have no other choice but to leave en masse from their homeland.
(Ginu Zacharia Oommen is a junior fellow at the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, Teenmurti House, New Delhi.)
http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lea...-under-siege/article6309536.ece?homepage=true
The first batch of weapons and military support have arrived from the USA. France, Czech and Jordan will all be providing arms in the coming days.
What a spectacle.
Maliki isn't a bad guy, he's just not a competent leader. The Iraqis need someone who is a bit less sectarian and beholden to the interests of their political party. Not sure if this new fella is the right guy, but just having someone other than Maliki will probably reinvigorate Iraqi politics and get them a bit more focused on ISIS.
Pretty much fair take on it really. Though I'd wager that the Sunni hardliners never gave him much of a chance. Nor do I think they'll give Al-Abadi or any Shia prime minister a chance.
Yesterday he had a meeting with the army generals and the heads of the security forces (which was televised) asking them to stay out of the political struggle and to continue to focus only on defending Iraq in their war against ISIS.
He still maintained that he will go to the court to solve the dispute about violating the constitution in the process of nominating Al-Ibadi, but he made it clear that the court is as far as he will go.
How do you feel if the Kurds gain independent? Are you against? Are the rest of Iraqi people against or they don't give 2 flies? Interested to know from someone from Iraq and not from the media.
I'm half Kurdish too for what its worth.
I used to be pro-union, but its hard to ignore that all Kurds want a state of their own (and let's be honest they're entitled to one) so I'm now firmly in the pro-independence camp.
Most 'Iraqis' were historically against fragmenting the country, but I'd wager most of them don't care anymore. They wouldn't exactly object to Kurdish independence.
Basically, its going to happen, and most likely soon.
Was starting to think the US might get dragged into this (i.e. "Putting boots on the ground") over Mt. Sinjar, but apparently it's 'not as bad as feared.'
Good for those that are already out I guess, but sucks for those still up there expecting a rescue.
Good for those that are already out I guess, but sucks for those still up there expecting a rescue.
Would you expect there to be any major territorial disputes between the Kurds and the 'Iraqis'?
The 100 US marines on the mountain had a mission aborted because they refused to fight ISIS with the PKK. They really need to be de-listed, it's getting a bit daft.
Barzani also confirmed that the Pesh will officially fight alongside the PKK and YPG until ISIS is gone from Kurdistan.
Barzani also confirmed that the Pesh will officially fight alongside the PKK and YPG until ISIS is gone from Kurdistan.
Kirkuk is the one that comes to mind.
So just to recap...this war on terror, I take it this is part of the plan, letting fanatics roam across Iraq and Syria beheading people and preaching intolerance.
I honestly do not know how people in this and the former government can keep a straight face when talking about the middle east, or "national security interests" let alone when facing the families of the dead and wounded soldiers.
I honestly do not know how people in this and the former government can keep a straight face when talking about the middle east, or "national security interests" let alone when facing the families of the dead and wounded soldiers.
Seriously. A few of those people need monitoring....
Don't let them back in the country. There was a stall on Oxford street the other say handing out leaflets to join the caliphate or some crap. They should all be deported too.
Mostly the oil-rich city of Kirkuk.
Its historically been a Kurdish city until Saddam initiated a program whereby he forcibly moved out Kurds and moved Arabs in to shift the demographical balance. Since the outbreak of recent fighting with ISIS, the Kurdish Peshmerga have gained full control of the city and have claimed they're not willing to let go of it this time. I don't see Baghdad trying to wrestle it off them anyway.
The major territorial disputes will be with Iran, Turkey and Syria should they choose to expand their territory beyond Iraqi borders. The regions which make up a 'greater Kurdistan' in those respective nations harbour a Kurdish majority, so by virtue of self-determination I can see the Kurdish government aspiring to assimilate those regions into its nation. Though that won't be for some time (Syria won't be difficult though I'd say considering the country's gone tits up).
Some of these communities need serious scrunity, particularly in London and the midlands.
When I went to University in London I had a few dodgy blokes asking me to attend talks by some pretty dodgy preachers, I was surprised the University was tolerant to that sort of thing.
The Kurds should play their cards wisely at this delicate stage. Get recognition as a sovereign state and then see what happens. They should seize the opportunity and take it on from there, whether chunks of Turkey/Iran are going to be incorporated in the future or not.