Glad they decided to stick together.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
Glad they decided to stick together.
Ah my mistake, i have confused the articles i have read.
I wasnt criticising the US btw, it just seemed action has coincided with a lot of focus in the media on fleeing christians..
I don't think it would be quite right to squarely talk about the US in taking this course of action if you are gunna either praise or come up with some utterly nonsensical criticism of it. It's mainly the French that have driven it, the US just have the closest aircraft carrier.
Really? What makes you say that?
So far I didn't see in the news any involvement of France on this conflict.
Hollande has stated he will support Kurdish forces against ISIS. The KRG have officially acknowledged French support and many media outlets announced earlier today that French fighter planes were on their way to Iraq. French support was shown before the US.
Fuad Hussein: We also thank Iran, Turkey, France for assisting us.
That kinda shows my underlying point. People only talk about the US.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/07/us-iraq-security-un-idUSKBN0G71IM20140807
http://www.kuna.net.kw/ArticleDetails.aspx?id=2391064&language=en
ISIS executing Sunni tribesmen. Its not just Shias, Christians and Yazidi who are at threat. These brutal ISIS murderers will kill anyone who won't accept their authority and their ways. The world must do more or Iraq will be tossed into an inferno it has not seen since the Mongols sacked Baghdad.
I was reading bbc but from the articles above they aren't involved yet.
The US policies in Iraq has been one of the main cause of this country being destabilised and directly and indirectly killing thousands of civilians. Getting rid of ISIS is a step in the right direction. If these scum had any understanding of faith they should be taking special care of minorities and spreading love and compassion, have regards to their physical wellbeing, wealth and honour.
Nice to see Religion serving its purpose to humanity yet again.
Not sure why some people are "confused" here. I don't think it's that difficult.
Here is the story in short. The US has funded ISIS in Syria (through the "moderate fractions" which end up with ISIS). It's also hard to believe they didn't know that, considering McCain himself was caught in an oops moment after only one meeting with the "moderate rebels" that went public.
The US does not want ISIS to spread in Iraq, for the US Iraq is some sort of "collateral damage" we all knew would happen, and it's hard to imagine the US didn't.
The US is not "friends with terrorists", but they are ready to fund them every now and then to do a much needed job for them. They have done it Afghanistan, and now they're doing it in Syria. (and that's the biggest part most people criticize the US for).
Saudi Arabia however is different, and it's a crucial factor in the equation (even for the US). Saudi Arabia is directly assisting ISIS (and the other branches of Al-Qaeda) financially, militarily (equipments), politically and ideologically, and the US knows that. They're also pressuring the US not to act (in Iraq) and to act (in Syria) in a direction that helps the terrorist organizations grow in these countries. Unfortunately, the US obliges most of the time to that pressure (because of their common interests like oil, Iran, ...) and that complicates things further.
Is anybody criticizing the US if they drop humanitarian aid to civilians stranded on a mountain? Absolutely not. Nobody will criticize them for that. That's a positive contribution, we can all agree on that. However, the question asked by many now, isn't that too little, and a bit late?
Luckily the Iraqi government managed to scramble enough forces in time to protect Baghdad, but just imagine here if they didn't manage to do so, because the US refused to act at a crucial moment. What would the complications be for the region, and possibly for the whole world? Even now it looks darn scary.
Do I want the US to intervene militarily? That's not what I'm "asking" the US (or any other country) for, for the simple reason that there should be enough Iraqis who can defend their own land imo, but if they do to help stop ISIS' spread then I will hope they succeed and achieve a quick victory.
However, will that really solve the problem? In my opinion I don't think so, and the last 13 years is a strong evidence supporting that opinion.
What do I "want the US to do"? Simple. 1- stop funding the terrorists in Syria or anywhere else, regardless how tempting it might be and how many short-term benefits it might bring them. 2- Fulfill their military commitments with the Iraqi government, providing them with what they agreed on in 2011 (among which the F-16, ammunition, ...etc.), and what they need to defeat ISIS (nothing special that they didn't provide already to some middle Eastern countries). 3- Pressure Saudi Arabia seriously to stop assisting terrorist organizations.
If the US did those steps, then we're on the right track imo towards stopping the spread of terrorism in the area, and even it didn't, then I can't ask the US to do any more really. Otherwise, dropping humanitarian aid (while welcomed) on a mountain, and even intervening militarily (in some areas while helping them grow in other areas) will not help solve the big problem the region is facing right now imo.
Here is the story in short. The US has funded ISIS in Syria (through the "moderate fractions" which end up with ISIS). It's also hard to believe they didn't know that, considering McCain himself was caught in an oops moment after only one meeting with the "moderate rebels" that went public.
The US does not want ISIS to spread in Iraq, for the US Iraq is some sort of "collateral damage" we all knew would happen, and it's hard to imagine the US didn't.
The US is not "friends with terrorists", but they are ready to fund them every now and then to do a much needed job for them. They have done it Afghanistan, and now they're doing it in Syria. (and that's the biggest part most people criticize the US for).
Saudi Arabia however is different, and it's a crucial factor in the equation (even for the US). Saudi Arabia is directly assisting ISIS (and the other branches of Al-Qaeda) financially, militarily (equipments), politically and ideologically, and the US knows that. They're also pressuring the US not to act (in Iraq) and to act (in Syria) in a direction that helps the terrorist organizations grow in these countries. Unfortunately, the US obliges most of the time to that pressure (because of their common interests like oil, Iran, ...) and that complicates things further.
Is anybody criticizing the US if they drop humanitarian aid to civilians stranded on a mountain? Absolutely not. Nobody will criticize them for that. That's a positive contribution, we can all agree on that. However, the question asked by many now, isn't that too little, and a bit late?
Luckily the Iraqi government managed to scramble enough forces in time to protect Baghdad, but just imagine here if they didn't manage to do so, because the US refused to act at a crucial moment. What would the complications be for the region, and possibly for the whole world? Even now it looks darn scary.
Do I want the US to intervene militarily? That's not what I'm "asking" the US (or any other country) for, for the simple reason that there should be enough Iraqis who can defend their own land imo, but if they do to help stop ISIS' spread then I will hope they succeed and achieve a quick victory.
However, will that really solve the problem? In my opinion I don't think so, and the last 13 years is a strong evidence supporting that opinion.
What do I "want the US to do"? Simple. 1- stop funding the terrorists in Syria or anywhere else, regardless how tempting it might be and how many short-term benefits it might bring them. 2- Fulfill their military commitments with the Iraqi government, providing them with what they agreed on in 2011 (among which the F-16, ammunition, ...etc.), and what they need to defeat ISIS (nothing special that they didn't provide already to some middle Eastern countries). 3- Pressure Saudi Arabia seriously to stop assisting terrorist organizations.
If the US did those steps, then we're on the right track imo towards stopping the spread of terrorism in the area, and even it didn't, then I can't ask the US to do any more really. Otherwise, dropping humanitarian aid (while welcomed) on a mountain, and even intervening militarily (in some areas while helping them grow in other areas) will not help solve the big problem the region is facing right now imo.
"The Sunni uprising". Sigh.
I wish the media would stop calling them "the Sunni rebels". Those cnuts have nothing to do with Islam or any sect in Islam.
What confuses me, and it just doesn't sit right with me is how a recently trained professional Iraqi military with fire power, and assistance from th US from the air, with better military equipment on the ground cannot rid the country of hardly trained volunteers estimated to be between 5000 to 10000.
Its not accurate to say the US funded ISIS. Even if they gave weapons to moderate anti-Assad factions in Syria, which then ended up with less moderate factions due to the chaos on the ground, that's not the same as deliberately as a policy choice giving weapons to them. Just the same as giving weapons to the late 70s Mujahideen in Afghanistan is not the same as funding or arming Al-Qaeda.
Its mostly sectarian there - so going up north is more difficult for a Shi'a dominated government force.
Yup,I miss the good old days when there was no religion and all men lived in peace and harmony.
Those were the days weren't they.
Iraq had no terrorist or religious strife until the great secularist leaders Bush and Blair decided to interfere. I'd say they have helped to destabilise the whole region, and politicise religionists.
Pretty sure there was something on the BBC the other night that religion is quickly declining (not sure if meant entirely/everywhere, or certain countries) and could become "extinct" once it reaches a tipping point.
Would be an interesting world if there was no religion. You'd still have ideology to contend with (among other things of course).
I agree that the invasion was a bad decision, but Iraq very well could have all the terrorists they have today without the US invasion. Just look next door at Syria.
Would be funny to see what some deluded athiests will blame all of mankind trouble on if there is no religion.
oNote- Am not saying all athiests are deluded.
Or look at turkey or any other stable muslim country. But yeah, lets look at syria.
A world without religion would certainly reduce the murder rate.
Why are Muslims leaving homes even in India to fight for ISIS?
Seriously people have lost sanity in this world.
Seriously people have lost sanity in this world.
As well as liberate about 75% of the women on earth from patriarchal subjugation.
They're probably all radicalized loons who have been intoxicated by the hate through their religious backgrounds.
Am assuming this is based on research done by you or others by observing different worlds with and without religion? Can I read it please.
A qualitative assessment. I'm sure we can dig up some research that touches on the spirit of what I'm talking about.
A qualitative assessment which states that 75% of the female population is religious?
Can I please read this, sounds like a very nice fairytail.
Go check the religion mega thread.
So you cant link me to any research that states 75% of the female population is religious?
Can I atleast find out whether stalin was christian or jew? And hitler, was he sunni or shia?
Whats astonishing there is report recently where well educated young muslims too (engineers, accountants etc to be specific) with proper jobs have left their homes to join ISIS.
Go to the appropriate thread and you will find all the in-depth discussions about religion.
Ahhh okay, can I ask you to stop bringing up religion in this thread then? Since its not an appropriate thread?
Yeah its really amazing how they can draw in the easily led to travel half way around the world to die for a fictitious cause. There are more than a few Europeans and Americans there as well.
Also,I used the search bar but couldnt find the megathread so will create a new one.