ISIS in Iraq and Syria

DenisIrwin said:
Ignore David fecking Icke. The point of my tweet, as you well know, was to point out that Reuters is owned by someone with a vested interest in oil exploration in illegally occupied Syrian territory End of.
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Is this supposed to be Rothschilds? Because that's false.
 
DenisIrwin said:
It would be a gross distortion to say support for the regime is out of fear.
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Where have I said that?

Danny1982 said:
They were raising both versions of Al-Nusra's flag. The old one (before July 2016):

120px-Flag_of_the_Al-Nusra_Front.svg.png


and the new one:

120px-Flag_of_Jabhat_Fatah_al-Sham.svg.png
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My rather trivial point was that, without being able to read the bottom line of the flag, it's impossible to know for sure if it's for Jabhat al-Nusta - it could be the generic jihadi flag without specifying a particular group (often seen in London at al-Muhajirun or Hizb ut-Tahrir rallies for example) or they could in theory be supporting other jihadi luminaries such as Jund al-Aqsa, the Pakistani Taliban, or the Caucasus Emirate, or any other of the dozen or so jihadi groups who use this particular flag (obviously very unlikely given the context, and irrelevant in regards to the problem):

jundaqsa.logopng.png


Flag_of_Tehrik-i-Taliban.svg_-564x272.png

300px-Flag_of_Caucasian_Emirate.svg.png


Pretty sure I can make out 'Jabhat al-Nusra' on the lower flag in the second pic here, although it's extremely unclear (edit: am I imagining it?), but the other flags clearly don't specify Nusra under either moniker.

Cz_rmcBW8AI613V.jpg:large


It would be interesting (and maybe legally relevant?) to know if flags specifically saying 'Jabhat al-Nusra' or 'Jabhat Fatah al-Sham' were flown at these protests.
 
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Decent thread to read through starting here:

 
Ubik said:
The Thomson family own it.
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OK. Yeah, I've been looking into it myself. Never bothered before. Rothschild sold it a while back. I stand corrected. I would strongly suspect, however, that some of the pies Rothschild has fingers in would be MSM. Murdoch, along with Rothschild, is definitely connected with the illegal drilling on Syrian land though.
 
2cents said:
Decent thread to read through starting here:

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This is my issue with the opposition in a nutshell.

They're not going to win this conflict, the Yanks and Saudis can shower them with all the weapons they can muster but the fact remains they're not going to be able to garner strong enough support, not with the likes of Al Nusra in the fold which scares off all Syrian minorities and most secular Sunnis. And without these extremist factions they're lame ducks anyway as a military force.

There's nothing remotely valiant about fighting on, they're just prolonging the suffering and swell the already huge death count. All at the encouragement of the Gulf Arab despots and the US who couldn't give two fecks about the civilians anyway.
 
Wonderfully secular protest then :rolleyes:

I'm sure these nice folk's utopian idea of Syria is a democratic and secular haven for all Syrians..
 
2cents said:
My rather trivial point was that, without being able to read the bottom line of the flag, it's impossible to know for sure if it's for Jabhat al-Nusta - it could be the generic jihadi flag without specifying a particular group
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They could also represent Taliban's flags but in Syria these flags represent Al-Nusra flags (the shapes and the colours). But why argue about the flags, when we know what they were chanting:
He said: 'We need a Caliph who will clean up these streets, who will smack up armies and who will back beef.

'Backhand your missiles back to your land, that's the plan. World domination at hand. We can expand and take out these fools.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lamic-rule-steps-London-s-Syrian-Embassy.html


WATCH: British Muslims Gather in Show of Strength to Demand Caliphate

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http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...uslims-gather-show-strength-demand-caliphate/

Kaos said:
Wonderfully secular protest then :rolleyes:

I'm sure these nice folk's utopian idea of Syria is a democratic and secular haven for all Syrians..
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Exactly.
 
JustAFan said:
The war hasn't stopped yet has it?
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True :(

It's crazy. It really isn't Syrians v Syrians much at all now.

Western MSM are actually cheering on Al Qaeda and their buddies against the Syrian government and their allies.

Un-fecking-believable.
 
2cents said:
Where have I said that?



My rather trivial point was that, without being able to read the bottom line of the flag, it's impossible to know for sure if it's for Jabhat al-Nusta - it could be the generic jihadi flag without specifying a particular group (often seen in London at al-Muhajirun or Hizb ut-Tahrir rallies for example) or they could in theory be supporting other jihadi luminaries such as Jund al-Aqsa, the Pakistani Taliban, or the Caucasus Emirate, or any other of the dozen or so jihadi groups who use this particular flag (obviously very unlikely given the context, and irrelevant in regards to the problem):

jundaqsa.logopng.png


Flag_of_Tehrik-i-Taliban.svg_-564x272.png

300px-Flag_of_Caucasian_Emirate.svg.png


Pretty sure I can make out 'Jabhat al-Nusra' on the lower flag in the second pic here, although it's extremely unclear (edit: am I imagining it?), but the other flags clearly don't specify Nusra under either moniker.

Cz_rmcBW8AI613V.jpg:large


It would be interesting (and maybe legally relevant?) to know if flags specifically saying 'Jabhat al-Nusra' or 'Jabhat Fatah al-Sham' were flown at these protests.
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It's very unclear from that tweet photo whether it's a Nusra flag. We should be very careful here, as the main text on the flag is the shahada and i would wager the majority of everyday muslims would have something similar in their homes, whether a in a frame or some other artwork. Unfortunately it's being hijacked by extremist jihadists. Also this black flag was also used by the Abbasids, so it shouldn't always be associated with extremists.
 
2cents said:
So it was basically a Hizb ut-Tahir rally, featuring the same flags they always have at their gatherings, e.g. this from 2011:

hizb-ut-tahrir.jpg
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Pretty much, they've had these rallies full of gullable students for at least 20 years or so, whether HT and Al Mahijiroun. Then they get jobs and forget about it, probably not a Syrian refugee amongst them.
 
2cents said:
It's absolutely correct to doubt any and all reports promoting the opposition narrative of what is happening in Aleppo. By the same token though, that doubt should be extended to any so-called 'independent' journalists parroting the regime narrative:



The fact that the opposition is dominated by al Qaeda type Taliban wannabees seems to have led many to forget that the regime is a Ba'thist dictatorship with a PHD in suppressing free press and media. You may prefer the regime to the opposition - a completely understandable position to take - but there's no need to go from there to blindly accepting all accounts which cast it in a good light.

The Western mainstream media have indeed promoted the opposition narrative almost exclusively since the conflict began - I don't think there's another conflict where the coverage has been so poor and one-sided. Journalists sitting in Beirut basing all their reports on Skype interviews with 'activists' in rebel territory have been the main feature.

On the other hand, this coverage has been having less and less impact as the war has dragged on. At this stage Assad has won the propaganda war in the sense that the opposition narrative has failed to capture pubic sympathy. This thread is a prime example - since Uzz/Le Chuck stopped posting in it, I don't think there has been a single post in support of any particular rebel group.
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My ex-girlfriend is Syrian. Throughout the entire shitshow, she's maintained that Bashar has far more support than the news would have us believe. Although, I have to say, she's christian and her views might also be biased.
 
Adisa said:
My ex-girlfriend is Syrian. Throughout the entire shitshow, she's maintained that Bashar has far more support than the news would have us believe. Although, I have to say, she's christian and her views might also be biased.
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She's probably right. It's impossible to measure with any degree of accuracy given the lack of real elections prewar, and the state of the country since, but there's little doubt in my mind Assad has retained the support of (a) the non-Sunni / non-Kurdish minorities, and (b) the urban Sunni higher classes. These had the most to lose from any regime change, and it's not unreasonable to speculate that they constitute a majority of Syria's Arab population.

The revolt seems to have been fuelled by resentment among the Sunnis of rural Syria, including the working class of the cities who have arrived in last generation or two and have retained their links with their home villages. This is the section of society most adversely affected by Bashar's neoliberal economic reforms since 2000 and by the drought which plagued the countryside in the last decade.

I'd also say that many of those who support Assad now were probably vaguely sympathetic to the idea of a liberal revolution at the beginning, but have subsequently been turned off it as the protests became militarised and the opposition became increasingly dominated by the jihadis.
 
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2cents said:
She's probably right. It's impossible to measure with any degree of accuracy given the lack of real elections prewar, and the state of the country since, but there's little doubt in my mind Assad has retained the support of (a) the non-Sunni / non-Kurdish minorities, and (b) the urban Sunni higher classes. The revolt seems to have been fuelled by resentment among the Sunnis of rural Syria, including the working class of the cities who have arrived in last generation or two and have retained their links with their home villages. This is the section of society most adversely affected by Bashar's neoliberal economic reforms since 2000 and by the draught which plagued the countryside in the last decade.

I'd also say that many of those who support Assad now were probably vaguely sympathetic to the idea of a liberal revolution at the beginning, but have subsequently been turned off it as the opposition became increasingly dominated by the jihadis.
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I was reading somewhere that the vast majority of the Syrian Army remains Sunni. There has to be an element of truth that he's not that unpopular, if they still stick with him.
 
Adisa said:
I was reading somewhere that the vast majority of the Syrian Army remains Sunni. There has to be an element of truth that he's not that unpopular, if they still stick with him.
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Absolutely, rank and file I believe still reflect the general demographics, however the army has been decimated and it's not clear how much of the heavy fighting they've been able to sustain. Much of the native pro-government forces are comprised of unregulated militias, and seemingly every minority, including Druze and Christian, has their own.
 
2cents said:
So it was basically a Hizb ut-Tahir rally, featuring the same flags they always have at their gatherings, e.g. this from 2011:
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Even here I don't see the new (white) Al-Nusra flags though... However, it's all the same thing. Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, you know very well it's the same thing, and you know very well that these exact flags and colours represent a certain direction which is in this case (Syria) adopted by Al-Nusra. These are Al-Nusra supporters, and now you can listen to what they were saying, so there is no argument really about this anymore. They were even talking about Al-Qaeda members who were sent by the US to Syria.
 
Danny1982 said:
Even here I don't see the new (white) Al-Nusra flags though... However, it's all the same thing. Al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, you know very well it's the same thing, and you know very well that these exact flags and colours represent a certain direction which is in this case (Syria) adopted by Al-Nusra. These are Al-Nusra supporters, and now you can listen to what they were saying, so there is no argument really about this anymore. They were even talking about Al-Qaeda members who were sent by the US to Syria.
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You know what CAGE and Hizb ut-Tahrir are right? CAGE campaign for 'victims' of US and UK anti-terror laws, even and especially proven al Qaeda members, to be released, while HuT is a pan-Islamic organization obsessed with restoring the caliphate by 'peaceful means'. Defending al Qaeda and calling for the caliphate is what they do. Members of both (and I believe there is overlap between them in the UK) led that protest according to one of the articles you posted (Moazzam Begg and Asim Qureshi are well known CAGE activists in the British media).

Look, of course I "know very well" that they all represent the jihadi trend, hence why I said my point "doesn't matter much", was "trivial", and largely "irrelevant". It still stands though, it's not a shock or out of the ordinary to see such flags flown in London - it's a regular occurrence whenever HuT or its militant spin-off al-Muhajiroun decide to protest. It doesn't necessarily indicate support specifically for Nusra (although it's extremely likely they're all fans), it's how they always protest, in this case on behalf of the Syrian jihad as a whole.

Btw here's another HuT protest complete with white jihadi flag (image won't paste for some reason):

https://goo.gl/images/s5Y2mB
 
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I've been gobsmacked lately that so many ppl still don't get it and are still swallowing the MSM bullshit. Can it go on?
 
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DenisIrwin said:


I've been gobsmacked lately that so many ppl still don't get it and are still swallowing the MSM bullshit. Can it go on?
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This whole "MSM" thing is a pretty myopic red herring. A way for fringe left and right media elements seeking to validate their own legitimacy by creating an "other" in the mainstream.
 


I tried copying and pasting the full thread of tweets but it kept messing up. If someone with more knowledge of twitter could do it that would be good.
 
DenisIrwin said:


I tried copying and pasting the full thread of tweets but it kept messing up. If someone with more knowledge of twitter could do it that would be good.
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I read the thread first time around, it looked ok!
 
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