Was that even in doubt?
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
Knowing and saying it in an official capacity are two completely different things...want some examples?
Look at Turkey and the Armenian genocide or go back further back, Pakistan Army in Bangladesh.
Good that he is, since it shows he's still alive and his perceived value as a propaganda tool will probably prolong his life. An even better scenario would be that he has befriended his ISIS captors.
This is pretty much going to cripple Turkey's tourist industry. Its bad enough the Russians have crossed it off their maps, but now I don't see westerners being too keen to visit Istanbul.
Definitely. PKK wouldn't kill foreigners because they can't afford international condemnation. That's the general rule to follow when trying to figure out who did it.
Also, it was believed that they were going to target our game against Galatasaray, resulting in its postponement.
Yep, I've already decided against a trip to Istanbul this year and I'm sure plenty of others have to. I know there's minimal risk but it's less minimal than most places.
The Iraqi army just started their operation to retake Mossul.
In the meantime, Syrian army have entered Palmyra, the fighting is going on in the city streets.
Abd al-Rahman Mustafa al-Qaduli/Abu Ala al-Afri, overall second in command of ISIS, has apparently been verifiably killed.
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/25/turkish-officials-europe-wanted-to-export-extremists-to-syria
Turkish officials: Europe wanted to export extremists to Syria
Officials point to Europeans arriving in Turkey with weapons and on watchlisted passports and say warnings were ignored
Turkish officials have accused European governments of attempting to export their Islamic extremist problem to Syria, saying the EU has failed to secure its own borders or abide by pledges to share intelligence and cooperate in fighting the jihadist threat.
Turkish officials: Europe wanted to export extremists to Syria
Officials point to Europeans arriving in Turkey with weapons and on watchlisted passports and say warnings were ignored
Turkish officials have accused European governments of attempting to export their Islamic extremist problem to Syria, saying the EU has failed to secure its own borders or abide by pledges to share intelligence and cooperate in fighting the jihadist threat.
I'm sorry but I can't take anything that comes from Erdogan, his buddies and cronies seriously.
Although your skepticism is justified, it's been established that Turkey did warn Belgium about Ibrahim el-Bakraoui, who was later deported back to the Netherlands after being detained in Gaziantep. Belgium had the opportunity to have him extradited, didn't, and Belgium's interior and justice ministers offered their resignations over the situation.
Turkey hasn't helped its reputation in failing to secure a porous border and get a firm grip on the situation - and this is pure speculation on my part - so maybe they had no trust from Europe and seemed completely unreliable.
As fener says, while I agree with the general skepticism, in this case, there does appear to be some merit in the argument put forward in the argument.
And more generally, I also don't think some European leaders minded so much necessarily when some of these people were initially travelling over there, thinking that they had perhaps gotten rid of a problem citizen without having to do anything themselves.
I just heard on Fox News that Anwar Al-Awlaki was the Kevin Bacon of terrorism.
I didn't mean to imply that the Belgians are free from any blame. The problem with Turkey is not just that, as you, @Fener1907 say, it's well known that they didn't bother about 'IS' for a long time and didn't controll their cross their border to Syria:
European countries had warned Turkey about certain Europeans who travelled to Turkey to arrest them, and Turkey didn't.
To date 'IS' funds themselves by selling oil via Turkey.
I have little doubt that the two journalists who are currently on trial for their articles about the Turkish governments bringing weapons into Syria are onto something. It is obvious why the court yesterday decided to exclude the public from the trial.
For all those reasons it's ridiculous that Turkey attempt to portray themselves as the ones being on top of the situation and blame others.
Given Turkey's development within the last years, the problem is also that you simply cannot rely on them. Their definition of terrorism is arbitrary - Erdogan went so far to say terrorism doesn't need weapons but can be executed with words, pen and paperto include critical journalists - and the justice system is thanks to Erdogan crooked. Home countries have to verify accusations for each and every individual, and when they fail to do so, there are not enough rescources to monitor them all.
Some perhaps but I'm not convinced that was the majority. I'm more under the impression that they are overwhelmed with the sheer numbers that their limited resources had to deal with.
Perfectly reasonable points. If you weren't contesting the veracity of all of their claims, of which, objectively speaking, one is irrefutably true given what we now know, no problem.
Also, about those journalists - 'onto something' is an understatement. They're just more victims who have tried to publicly state what everybody already knows. Turkey working with ISIS is about as much a revelation as there being freshly baked bread at the bakery in the morning. Media suppression has been happening in the country long before now, as you'll no doubt be aware if you've been watching closely. I can't even pretend to be outraged anymore when another paper gets taken down or a journalist jailed. News to the world, just another resigned shrug of the shoulders for me.
Syrian Army and Hezbollah militants currently involved in a huge operation to take back Palmyra from ISIS. They're receiving heavy air support from the Russians.
But hey the regime doesn't fight ISIS
... and he's saying this a few days after the attacks in Brussel as well.
Media reports, that ISIS withdrew from Palmyra. They are crumbling fast now.
I haven't followed the case of those two journos closely enough to make as definite statements as you made, but it's sad to see my perception of Erdogan once more confirmed.
The point I was trying to make is that given how Turkey acts, it's reasonable to assume that among those detained for proper reasons there will also be many detained for improper reasons. That obstructs the work of every country that takes detainees back.
Palmyra: Syria forces 'retake' Islamic State-held city.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35906568
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35906568
I really don't see the relationship. Could you explain this in better detail?
I've never heard anything about widespread detention for improper reasons other than for those who are perceived as a threat to the government, and I don't see the relationship between media suppression and Turkey's border/foreign nationals policies i.e. who they detain.
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And wow, that was uncomfortable viewing. Poor fella was clearly out of depth. What is it with US State Dept officials? Is it a post they allocate to punish government workers considering the humiliation most of them get subjected to?
I hope I can explain. Media suppression adds to the mistrust I have for who Turkey accuses to be a terrorist. Erdogan's definition of a terrorist is arbitrary; it even includes journalists. He includes people who aren't, let's call them false-positives. With the media oppression, also of foreign journos, we simply don't know about what actually triggers an arrest by Turkey's police or army, i.e. along the border.
The justice system can also not be trusted. So how can countries who take detainees rely on information from Turkey? They can't. They have to prove that these individuals are terrotists. That's a huge amount of work, and resources are wasted in those false-positive cases. But you have to do it because if you don't do it, you wouldn't know they are false-positives. I'm not sure if I was able to be clearer but tried...
Honestly, I wouldn't read into the comments he made about his definition of what constitutes a terrorist. He was implying that opponents of his are terrorists, sending out a message to domestic opposition. As alarming as that might sound, it's typical Erdoğan and he's simply stating what has been happening for a while. It's like punching somebody and then giving the threat afterwards.
It's not for that reason that I'd distrust Turkey i.e. its ambiguous definition of terrorists. As I originally mentioned, I think it's the porous border and their initial unwillingness to properly patrol it - an international issue - that undermined Turkey's reputation, not domestic posturing. If anything, the problem is that they haven't made more arrests in the south-east, which would be the kind of terrorists that Europe are interested in. (That said, the fact that one of their citizens was detained in Gaziantep should have rung alarm bells for Belgian authorities, regardless of what domestic turmoil Turkey is experiencing, but they dropped the ball on that one and they know it)
In essence, there are two different kinds of 'terrorists' in Turkey. It's a fecked up nuance of Turkish politics that probably makes no sense to most onlookers.
Waiting for @Sir Matt to remind us how the Syrian regime isn't interested in fighting ISIS
If you read what I wrote, I clearly said that they would fight the insurgents first to ensure that their spot at the negotiating table was weak or nonexistent before becoming the "lesser of two evils" and then fighting against ISIS. That's exactly what they've done. I never said they would never fight ISIS.
They have been fighting ISIS since the beginning (on multiple fronts), and you have already been given the facts that defied your propaganda, and when you were faced with the facts you ran away from the discussion.The SAA didn't parachute into Palmyra from tens of kilometers away (although that kind of "logic" will be consistent with your propaganda). The operation has started months ago, and I posted this exactly 4 months ago.
Nice to see you in the thread again though.
Turkey is deliberately 'unleashing' Isis terrorists into Europe, says Jordan's King Abdullah.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-unleashing-them-europe-erdogan-a6954841.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-unleashing-them-europe-erdogan-a6954841.html
There are/were definitely recruitment hotbeds in certain cities. Although it may not be the case so much nowadays (doubt it since they're now fleeing into Turkey following defeat after defeat), they were successfully recruiting young men from, unsurprisingly, the deprived parts of the cities. It's pretty surreal knowing they've been actively recruiting in places you know.
Seems to me that Turkey has been playing a game that's gone totally out of control and horribly backfired. Becoming some sort of jihadi free for all crossroad just to get rid of Assad has in retrospect been a disaster for them and the rest of the world, and now Assad's actually looking stronger thanks to Russia. Looks like a massive clusterfeck mostly created by Erdogan and his crooks.
He thought Assad was a goner long ago, failing to properly understand Russia's disapproval of the entire situation. I'd love to have seen his face at the moment he learnt of Syria's request to Russia for military assistance.
This badly damaged his grand scheme, and last week's detainment of a key figure in his network of corruption will hopefully lead to something bigger. He's definitely considered highly undesirable by the American government nowadays, which is where this key figure was detained and is probably striking a deal in exchange for important information about the dictator.
It'd be funny, if it wasn't so sad.
Syrian militias armed by different parts of the U.S. war machine have begun to fight each other on the plains between the besieged city of Aleppo and the Turkish border, highlighting how little control U.S. intelligence officers and military planners have over the groups they have financed and trained in the bitter 5-year-old civil war.
The fighting has intensified over the past two months, as CIA-armed units and Pentagon-armed ones have repeatedly shot at each other as they have maneuvered through contested territory on the northern outskirts of Aleppo, U.S. officials and rebel leaders have confirmed.
More here.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tias-us-cia-islamic-state-20160326-story.html
Syrian militias armed by different parts of the U.S. war machine have begun to fight each other on the plains between the besieged city of Aleppo and the Turkish border, highlighting how little control U.S. intelligence officers and military planners have over the groups they have financed and trained in the bitter 5-year-old civil war.
The fighting has intensified over the past two months, as CIA-armed units and Pentagon-armed ones have repeatedly shot at each other as they have maneuvered through contested territory on the northern outskirts of Aleppo, U.S. officials and rebel leaders have confirmed.
More here.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tias-us-cia-islamic-state-20160326-story.html