And the same applies to every other major power involved.
There are no good guys in this conflict.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
And the same applies to every other major power involved.
There are no good guys in this conflict.
Spot on analysis.
Not only that, but it just highlights that a bombing campaign can't defeat people like ISIS when they have entire cities to in their domain. The civilian casualties would be massive, which is why this campaign is doomed from the start. It will also ratchet up more anti-Assad support among the likes of Turkey and the Gulf states, which will cause yet more instability .
The last time the West and Russians got involved in Afghanistan and Iraq 10's of thousands were killed. Al Qaeda was created. Taliban came into power.
Iraq, as you described is still a failed state. Afghanistan no better. I just don't understand the many agendas of decision makers.
Except that Syria is a different case. This was an organic revolution that happened because Assad crushed dissent in Dara'a, which led to the situation spiralling out of control and ISIS and other groups to enter the picture.
@2cents - and what of the US and Russia?
They're backing their sides as 'Great Powers' do, only Russia is doing it with far more enthusiasm as, unlike the US, it is 100% certain what side it is on. Whereas Obama seems caught between the traditional US acquiescence to Saudi and Israeli wishes in the region and an obvious personal desire for rapprochement with Iran (but I think he'd prefer to wash his hands of the region altogether).
I think you're very much spot on so far, and would just add that I think top levels of the US government really don't see a clear path to success (I also don't, Syria is really fubar), and most importantly the US public has no interest in any large-scale action. One of Obama's promises was that he'd get out of Iraq & Afghanistan, and he's slowly done that, and I think he still enjoys support on that point. We're now 14 years from 9/11, the average american probably feels relatively safe, and probably doesn't give a s*** about Syria.
How dare you not trust the BBC and CNN ? Throw in Al-Jazeera while you're at it.
They are the paragons of unbiased and neutral reporting of events unfolding around the world. RT is clearly run the devil himself.
The rebels published a video footage of the Russian strike "on the hospital" which clearly shows the strikes didn't hit the hospital and it seems that they have been immediately notified that the footage actually exposes the lies of SOHR and the Western media, and now they're trying to scramble a way out of it by editing and re-editing their youtube titles/facebook posts. 
What's funny is that in the footage itself they don't even mention anything about the hospital being targeted at all, so now you have the funny situation of the titles saying something and the footage actually saying something pretty much different (in the video he only mentions a 'school being hit' and they changed the title to "school close to the hospital" and now "school adjacent to the hospital" (of course only in the titles/posts, the videos don't say anything about the hospital being targeted)..
What's funny is that in the footage itself they don't even mention anything about the hospital being targeted at all, so now you have the funny situation of the titles saying something and the footage actually saying something pretty much different (in the video he only mentions a 'school being hit' and they changed the title to "school close to the hospital" and now "school adjacent to the hospital" (of course only in the titles/posts, the videos don't say anything about the hospital being targeted)..
The rebels published a video footage of the Russian strike "on the hospital" which clearly shows the strikes didn't hit the hospital and it seems that they have been immediately notified that the footage actually exposes the lies of SOHR and the Western media, and now they're trying to scramble a way out of it by editing and re-editing their youtube titles/facebook posts.
What's funny is that in the footage itself they don't even mention anything about the hospital being targeted at all, so now you have the funny situation of the titles saying something and the footage actually saying something pretty much different (in the video he only mentions a 'school being hit' and they changed the title to "school close to the hospital" and now "school adjacent to the hospital" (of course only in the titles/posts, the videos don't say anything about the hospital being targeted)..
Interesting turn of events. Should we still trust the guy in coventry ?
Wait! They deleted I think two of the videos now! The ones showing the field hospital totally intact from inside as they were videotaping the injured being carried into it!
They removed the facebook post they edited too!More on the US special forces / Peshmerga collaboration to rescue 70 Kurds before an ISIS planned mass execution.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/22/us-special-forces-free-kurdish-hostages-isis-iraq
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/22/us-special-forces-free-kurdish-hostages-isis-iraq
I think they won't change much now, because it's already been on for a couple of hours and they probably realised it's now too late to remove/edit them.
Here is their facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/sarmeen12
Here are the two videos they didn't delete.
I took a few snapshots when I saw they're editing and deleting things...
Here is the first snapshot showing the edited facebook post, which they eventually deleted. At first it stated "the wounded arriving at the hospital", then they edited it to: "the wounded arriving at the emergency department which is the part with the least damage of the hospital" then they probably realised how silly that is (for many obvious reasons, least of all the people can still watch the video and see), so they deleted the post altogether and the video.
And here is a snapshot of the video it was linking to (which they deleted)..
And here is a snapshot of another video they deleted showing the wounded inside the field hospital (after the second strike)..
Here is their youtube page..
https://www.youtube.com/user/SarmeenFree/videos
You can also see how they're editing the titles of the youtube videos as when you look at this facebook post (which is still there till now):
You can see the post in facebook says "school near the field hospital", and the link for the video says "close to the field hospital" and when you click on the video on youtube now it was edited again to "adjacent to the hospital".
They can't of course change it to "they hit the hospital" because in the video itself he says 'the school was hit' and doesn't mention anything about the hospital, but they realised now what they have done and they're trying desperately to fix it.
Anyway, according to this footage (which the 'rebels' themselves published), it's pretty clear that no hospital or even field hospital was targeted in the air strikes.
And by the way, worth mentioning here since the man in the video said the 'school' was targeted that none of the wounded shown in the footage (even the ones they deleted) were children or women.
Here is their facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/sarmeen12
Here are the two videos they didn't delete.
I took a few snapshots when I saw they're editing and deleting things...
Here is the first snapshot showing the edited facebook post, which they eventually deleted. At first it stated "the wounded arriving at the hospital", then they edited it to: "the wounded arriving at the emergency department which is the part with the least damage of the hospital" then they probably realised how silly that is (for many obvious reasons, least of all the people can still watch the video and see), so they deleted the post altogether and the video.
And here is a snapshot of the video it was linking to (which they deleted)..
And here is a snapshot of another video they deleted showing the wounded inside the field hospital (after the second strike)..
Here is their youtube page..
https://www.youtube.com/user/SarmeenFree/videos
You can also see how they're editing the titles of the youtube videos as when you look at this facebook post (which is still there till now):
You can see the post in facebook says "school near the field hospital", and the link for the video says "close to the field hospital" and when you click on the video on youtube now it was edited again to "adjacent to the hospital".
They can't of course change it to "they hit the hospital" because in the video itself he says 'the school was hit' and doesn't mention anything about the hospital, but they realised now what they have done and they're trying desperately to fix it.
Anyway, according to this footage (which the 'rebels' themselves published), it's pretty clear that no hospital or even field hospital was targeted in the air strikes.
And by the way, worth mentioning here since the man in the video said the 'school' was targeted that none of the wounded shown in the footage (even the ones they deleted) were children or women.
Best post of the thread right here.
So they're like anyone else there then, except they are there legally. As for killing innocents, there are plenty of state leaders and governments out there that have done the same and will never face any consequences of their actions.
Yes.
These undercooked, misplaced agenda driven policies have been a major cause in an upsurge in violent extremism.
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I hope it's not a dig at the Syrian moderate rebel school system. Some of those pupils were clearly held back a few years, judging by their beards.
Of course, just a bombing campaign cannot defeat ISIS. Russian airstrikes are just part of the joint offensive along with the Syrian army and some Iranian fighters on the ground.
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To the first bolded bit - when I said it can be corroborated in my earlier post, I meant, it can be corroborated by non-SOHR cited sources i.e. independent of the SOHR. And tbh - he does report on all aspects of the civil war. Honestly, you should really go onto the site and see for yourself. The articles are like small 2-3 sentenced lines like the one I posted earlier. There's no opinion pieces on there. If you do see an opinion piece, it's a link to an outside source about the civil war.
The difference with Russian news sources is that what they report can be proven to be disingenuous or a bold faced lie. There's a few examples of it in the Ukraine thread. You can't put SOHR in the same pool as Russian news sources. Russian news sources are notorious for bending/twisting the truth or coming out with a bold faced lie. They are not the same.
To your question - if he was reporting things that are proven to be untrue, I'd agree with you. But as I said earlier, the incidents are also reported by non SOHR sources, and can be corroborated through different avenues of information that have no affiliation with SOHR. Furthermore, like I said previously, if the SOHR actively gave opinions on the information, and presented it in a biased or agenda driven way, I'd agree with you, but there's no evidence of the stories being presented in such a way.
Here's the news story from today:
That is literally it. There is 0 analysis, 0 bias, 0 commentary.
It is just a highlighter of what is being reported. The translations could do with a bit of work.
First of all, what exactly are "Russian sources", according to you? Russia is a big country, there are thousands of newspapers, hundreds of various news channels and God knows how many internet bloggers, and there's a wide variety of various views they represent. Do you know many Russian media sources? Can you name any and can you explain how their coverage differs from one another? Do you speak Russian? Do you read news in Russian from these sources on a daily basis? No? Then maybe you shouldn't compare something you may know with something you don't have a slightest idea about.
Second, that Rami Abdul Rahman fellow has a clear bias and an agenda. He is pro-FSA and anti-Assad, so he cannot possibly be objective. Also, who is funding his project? What does he do for a living? RT may be a Russian propaganda channel, but where does this 'freedom fighter' from Coventry gets the money from? I'd imagine, he needs a sizable sum to cover his expenses, considering that his many sources have to be on the payroll, too. In the video I posted earlier in the thread the RT journalist went to interview him all the way to Astana where he stayed in a luxurious five star hotel. How can this guy afford all these long distance flights and nice accommodations is a mystery. Who knew that posting news from the country you haven't been to in many years from sources you don't have to reveal makes such a nice living.
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MOSCOW — Russia and the United States signed an agreement on Tuesday that regulates all aircraft and drone flights over Syria, the defense departments of both countries announced.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/21/w...-to-regulate-all-flights-over-syria.html?_r=0
The press release is from early October and said that they were coordinating intelligence for strikes. Not the new agreement.
You're just being distasteful here.
What's the general sentiment of Russian airstrikes in Syria at this moment ? Helpful or not ?
They could have coordinated it unofficially, no? Just because they have announced it now doesn't mean there weren't any contacts between the two sides much earlier, in fact, I'm sure there were, since they were both eager to avoid possible complications.
For the example stories you've quoted, that's exactly my point - not a single source, reliable quote or anything. Its a few obsecure sentences that can't in anyway be verified. Its pretty much no different to Iran's PressTV story template.
Here's another nonsensical example from the SOHR site, try and figure out what's wrong with it:
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What are you talking about? We already have a video footage that proves he (and the whole US propaganda machine) was deliberately lying about "a hospital being targeted" (in some unexpected turn of events I must say
), you should know by now that he's just wumming.I wonder why...
suddenly aren't talking about it anymore...
In the "Free Syria" they don't need schools anyway, they only need to teach the children how to cut heads and blow themselves up, like they're doing now in the "free parts" of Syria (and in Turkey too apparently).
The SOHR man should have just gone with the school version anyway (whether true or not). A hospital would make a better headline, but unfortunately for him, it turned out to be too late, because nobody thought of it when they were videotaping.
You'd do well as a prosecution lawyer with those leading questions.
Syrian refugees in Germany fear undercover 'shabiha'
Hundreds of pro-Assad militiamen reporting to the Syrian regime believed to be mixing with asylum seekers.
In areas popular with the Arab community in Germany, Syrian refugees opposed to the Syrian regime have a growing concern.
Hundreds of militiamen supporting President Bashar al-Assad, are believed to be taking advantage of the refugee crisis to gain access to Europe - arriving among those fleeing war.
Activists and human rights lawyers say the Assad loyalists, also known as shabiha, go undercover and supply the Assad regime with intelligence.
In Germany, activists are collaborating on social media to identify members of the shabiha and Assad forces by recording online profiles and current locations.
But they say the alleged criminals are deleting their online identities as they are being discovered.
Jikrkhouin Mulla Ahmed, a Syrian activist in Berlin who says he was imprisoned and tortured by the shabiha in Syria, that when he sees people he is not sure about he follows them to where they live and report them to authorities.
"These people must be brought to justice for what they did," the told Al Jazeera. "This isn’t just about me, more than 200,000 people have been made prisoners ... Many, many people were killed by the shabiha."
Several human rights lawyers in Europe acknowledge the threats posed by the infiltration of alleged criminals among Syrian refugees. The Syrian opposition in exile says also says it is trying to help.
The UN's Refugee Convention addresses criminals seeking asylum and similar provisions exist under EU asylum law.
The UN's Refugee Convention stipulates that those for whom there are serious reasons for considering that they have committed war crimes or crimes against humanity, or serious non-political crimes, should not qualify for refugee status.
Hundreds of pro-Assad militiamen reporting to the Syrian regime believed to be mixing with asylum seekers.
In areas popular with the Arab community in Germany, Syrian refugees opposed to the Syrian regime have a growing concern.
Hundreds of militiamen supporting President Bashar al-Assad, are believed to be taking advantage of the refugee crisis to gain access to Europe - arriving among those fleeing war.
Activists and human rights lawyers say the Assad loyalists, also known as shabiha, go undercover and supply the Assad regime with intelligence.
In Germany, activists are collaborating on social media to identify members of the shabiha and Assad forces by recording online profiles and current locations.
But they say the alleged criminals are deleting their online identities as they are being discovered.
Jikrkhouin Mulla Ahmed, a Syrian activist in Berlin who says he was imprisoned and tortured by the shabiha in Syria, that when he sees people he is not sure about he follows them to where they live and report them to authorities.
"These people must be brought to justice for what they did," the told Al Jazeera. "This isn’t just about me, more than 200,000 people have been made prisoners ... Many, many people were killed by the shabiha."
Several human rights lawyers in Europe acknowledge the threats posed by the infiltration of alleged criminals among Syrian refugees. The Syrian opposition in exile says also says it is trying to help.
The UN's Refugee Convention addresses criminals seeking asylum and similar provisions exist under EU asylum law.
The UN's Refugee Convention stipulates that those for whom there are serious reasons for considering that they have committed war crimes or crimes against humanity, or serious non-political crimes, should not qualify for refugee status.
Despite US-led campaign, Islamic State rakes in oil earnings.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/061e...led-campaign-islamic-state-rakes-oil-earnings
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/061e...led-campaign-islamic-state-rakes-oil-earnings
What intelligence can they possibly gather as a refugee?
I'd be more worried about some jihadist radicals getting into the country with the purpose of blowing things up.
Apparently they've released a new video showing them executing an SAA soldier by rolling a tank over him. Alive.
Think this is their first video that I'll be avoiding.
Think this is their first video that I'll be avoiding.
Al-Qaeda's leader in Syria killed in Aleppo.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eikh-Abu-Sulaiman-Al-Masri-killed-Aleppo.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eikh-Abu-Sulaiman-Al-Masri-killed-Aleppo.html
He's not the leader.
Who is? And who was the guy that got killed?
The leader is this guy, Abu Muhammad al-Julani:
Haven't heard of the dead guy.
(Edit): According to some online he was a senior commander in the Aleppo area.
Haven't heard of the dead guy.
(Edit): According to some online he was a senior commander in the Aleppo area.