ISIS claims to have captured Ramadi.
And in a completely unrelated question, what does the iraqi army do beside retreat?
And in a completely unrelated question, what does the iraqi army do beside retreat?
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
Its baffling. They were much stronger and more unified in 2011, and gradually got unwound by sectarianism and mismanagement in the later Maliki years.
You just answered yourself. The natural consequence to Maliki's policies.
Iraqi army hightailing it out of Ramadi
The citizens must be bricking it watching the Army racing out like that.
I wouldn't read too much into the Ramadi situation. There will be a massive offensive this year to retake Anbar and Ninewa once the Iraqi Army regroups with a good bit of behind the scenes training and support from the good old US of A.
So the cowards in Iraqi army ran away with tails between their legs leaving the population at mercy of IS militants and now they are sending Iran backed Shia militias thugs in predominantly Sunni region.
Great policy in curbing already inflamed seceterian tension.
Great policy in curbing already inflamed seceterian tension.
The Shia militias are Iraq's best trained 'military' setup. They succeeded in Sunni Tikrit (with the help of moderate Sunni tribes), so it makes sense that they'll unleash them in Ramadi.
Unfortunately, since the US considered it a good idea to disband Iraq's entire military and build it from scratch, the Iranian-backed militias remain the country's most formidable protectors.
Moderate Sunni tribes in Ramadi are already against the idea of deploying Shia militias there.
As for Shia militias being the most formidable protectors is biggest bullshit I've heard. This thugs and terrorists were forced to withdraw from Tikrit after its liberation because they went on looting, burning and killing spree. But hey it's nice to keep your head buried in the sand.
You're the Iraqi prime minister, Ramadi is currently being pillaged by ISIS barbarians, your military is inept, untrained and lacking in morale, not to mention they've disobeyed your orders and have chosen to flee. The only capable fighters you have are Shia militiamen who have previously succeeded in driving ISIS out of Tikrit.
What do you do?
Peshmerga seem a wholly better option.
Send the Peshmerga to fight in Iraqi mainland?
You realise they're primarily concerned with the defense of their lands and people. They're not going to travel hundreds of miles south to die for the people of Ramadi. Not to mention they don't answer to the Iraqi government.
They're willing to move Southern if it benefits them. Like during the Iraq War.
There's absolutely no parrells between the Iraq war and what's happening now. For starters they were for the most part entrenched in the North and never ventured beyond Mosul. There's no reason they'd decide to go as far as the Anbar province, nor is there any benefit.
But lets go with it, lets assume that the Peshmerga would for some reason come to the aid of the Arabs who care little for them. How would they do it? They're already stretched thin fighting ISIS in the north, and are already pouring support for their battallions in Syria. They simply don't have the resources or manpower to spare them sending thousands of fighters all the way down to Ramadi. It would be stupid of them to do so as well.
So back to square one. What's your next alternative?
There is no alternative, but it still comes with a big problems. Immediate sectarian violence and the strengthening of non-government militias, who´ll demand influence/power in return for their help ("The spirits that I called...").
The whole thing about inclusion of the Sunnis failed pretty miserably and its not going to happen in the future. Especially not after another round of sectarian violence. So what is the end game?
The whole thing about inclusion of the Sunnis failed pretty miserably and its not going to happen in the future. Especially not after another round of sectarian violence. So what is the end game?
Pretty much what I wanted to say. Couldn't have put it better.
The sectarian tensions aren't going to go away anytime soon, that's the reality unfortunately. The government should have historically done a better job of assimilating Sunnis more, whereas various Sunni factions shouldn't have trusted ISIS over the government. Irrespective, its a wound that'll take time to heal.
Right now the biggest issue here and now is ISIS who are causing suffering for ALL Iraqis - Sunni, Shia and Kurd alike, so everything else will have to take a backpedal. Since the only capable combatants in mainland Iraq are the militias, they'll have to be unleashed to counter ISIS's campaign. People can drum up the anti-Iran rhetoric all they want but without their support Baghdad would likely be overrun too.
I don't disagree and I am certainly nobody who "drums up anti-Iran rhetoric". I am just pointing out that even the best-case scenario (pushing out ISIS successfully out of Iraq) won´t lead to peace and happiness, but a fairly unpleasant, violent and unstable situation.
I don't disagree with that prognosis either, but I'd rather take the chance now and deal with the complicated repercussions in the future, than to simply dither and watch ISIS reconsolidate their gains and continue the brutal siege over the Iraqi people.
This is a bit bizarre - one of Anjem Choudary's mates who legged it to Syria last year has written a Lonely Planet-like piece on the Islamic State, containing gems like this:
"If nothing here tickles your taste buds then remember we have only scratched the surface; as more Muslims flock to the Caliphate from Europe, Asia, the Caribbean Islands and elsewhere you can be sure to find your mouth watering morsels somewhere. I cannot help but think that in the near future we will be eating curries and chow meins in the streets of Raqqah and Mosul."
"The Caliphate offers an exquisite Mediterranean climate that has all the makings of a plush holiday resort."
"If you thought London or New York was cosmopolitan then wait until you step foot in the Islamic State, because it screams diversity."
And so on.
https://ia600308.us.archive.org/24/items/Khilafah2015/A Brief Guide to Islamic State 2015.pdf
"If nothing here tickles your taste buds then remember we have only scratched the surface; as more Muslims flock to the Caliphate from Europe, Asia, the Caribbean Islands and elsewhere you can be sure to find your mouth watering morsels somewhere. I cannot help but think that in the near future we will be eating curries and chow meins in the streets of Raqqah and Mosul."
"The Caliphate offers an exquisite Mediterranean climate that has all the makings of a plush holiday resort."
"If you thought London or New York was cosmopolitan then wait until you step foot in the Islamic State, because it screams diversity."
And so on.
https://ia600308.us.archive.org/24/items/Khilafah2015/A Brief Guide to Islamic State 2015.pdf
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Begs the question: what could possibly go wrong?!
That's not true. The soldiers were ordered by their commanders to retreat, and the commanders gave a silly excuse for their decision afterwards. The soldiers didn't retreat on their own and have defended Ramadi successfully for nearly a full year.
That's the problem with a conventional army. It's easy to defeat it. You only need a sh*t commander or a traitor in that position to lose the battle. It's why in these situations the same fighters, and the same people, achieve much better results when they fight as a militia, where they don't depend on a single commander whom 'must be agreed on by all political parties'.
Having said that, the battle in Ramadi was still a tough one, considering many people inside the city are pro-ISIS.
I disagree about that. You can never build a solid army in a country like Iraq in its current situation (or its situation in the past decades) unless it's led by a dictator who handpicks every sensitive position in the army (like Saddam or Assad). Democracy will never build a solid army in Iraq. Sectarianism wasn't born in Iraq in 2011.
In 2011 may be it "looked like" Iraq had a solid army, because many people (some in sensitive positions) were just waiting for the US to withdraw so they can do their jobs. It's been the plan all along, and it was the reason why some political parties always insisted on returning high ranking officials from Saddam's regime to sensitive positions in the security forces. They were just preparing for the next step, when the US withdraws.
By the way, same thing will happen in Afghanistan, regardless of who'll be in charge. Al-Qaeda is just waiting for the US to withdraw right now, and they'll be back when the US pulls out completely. A "democratic" army that's heavily infiltrated by Al-Qaeda members or Al-Qaeda sympathisers will never have a chance.
I was in Iraq for much of 2011, and its true there was an element of insurgents who were waiting for the Americans to leave. But that was also exacerbated by the sectarian leanings of the Maliki government. You can't alienate the entire Sunni population of Iraq and expect Al-Qaeda in Iraq, who as of 2011 were hammered into submission, to not make a strong comeback, as they have now in the form of ISIS.
Isis suicide bombing in Saudi as well now
could the conflict escalate?
could the conflict escalate?
Shia mosque, the Saudi government aren't going to bat an eyelid, they'll probably consider it a merited service.
On the flip side then will this lead to another porous border for crossings and potentially more funding... Could potentially be a point of friction between Saudi and the USA... With big multinational petrochemical businesses having big vested interests as well
not really. The government is already heavily discriminating these people. This conflict is building up for 6-7 years now and its only a matter of time until it gets more violent.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/25/iran-iraq-us-squabble-isis-advances
So Biden had to call the PM because the Secretary of Defense stated the obvious?
Perhaps if it were only one incident, Carter wouldn't have said what he did. Unfortunately, the Iraqi Army has run away from ISIS, despite out-numbering and out-gunning them, on multiple occasions.
So Biden had to call the PM because the Secretary of Defense stated the obvious? Perhaps if it were only one incident, Carter wouldn't have said what he did. Unfortunately, the Iraqi Army has run away from ISIS, despite out-numbering and out-gunning them, on multiple occasions.
Defense Intelligence Agency document (2012):
West will facilitate rise of Islamic State “in order to isolate the Syrian regime”
http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/pgs-287-293-291-jw-v-dod-and-state-14-812-2/
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/...-state-in-order-to-isolate-the-syrian-regime/
West will facilitate rise of Islamic State “in order to isolate the Syrian regime”
http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/pgs-287-293-291-jw-v-dod-and-state-14-812-2/
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/...-state-in-order-to-isolate-the-syrian-regime/
Isis fighters complaining of 'Saudi nepotism' on group's waiting list for suicide bombers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...aiting-list-for-suicide-bombers-10275690.html
Terrorists complain about the suicide bomber waiting list nepotism. What's the world coming to.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...aiting-list-for-suicide-bombers-10275690.html
Terrorists complain about the suicide bomber waiting list nepotism. What's the world coming to.
Shi'a militias fighting on Sunni land, dedicating their cause to Imam Hussein. What could possibly go wrong.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ke-western-Anbar-province-from-Isil-live.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ke-western-Anbar-province-from-Isil-live.html
Can't they blow themselves up to beat the queue?
on a sidenote: What happend to Muqtada al-sadr? Does he still have control over some of the militas?
on a sidenote: What happend to Muqtada al-sadr? Does he still have control over some of the militas?
Taken a bit of a backseat in the last year or so. He's reared his head on a few occasions making a few threats but thats it really. His militias are probably fighting ISIS.
ISIS
Psh, sounds like a total ploy from the USA, making the world think they exist.
Santa is more real than ISIS.
Psh, sounds like a total ploy from the USA, making the world think they exist.
Santa is more real than ISIS.
Another Shia mosque attacked in Saudi now. This time in Damman.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/...sque-saudi-arabia-dammam-150529102343732.html
IS have claimed responsibility. 4 dead.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/...sque-saudi-arabia-dammam-150529102343732.html
IS have claimed responsibility. 4 dead.
So they're just attacking Shia mosques in Saudi? Not interested in government officials?
They probably are interested if they can reach him. Shi'a mosques are a much softer target to hit.