England have been horrendous, I don't even support them, but even as a neutral, they've played truly life-draining football. Other than that, most of the other matches I've seen have been entertaining enough.
Is top flight and national football dead, or is it just not for me any more?
- Thread starter clean-sheet-culkin
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My love for United has remained, but as I've aged I've pretty much fallen out of love with football.
I don't watch matches not involving United. When I do, I'm clearly pretending to myself that I'm enjoying it and after a while I accept that I have no interest and turn it off. It's almost like a bit of denial.
I still watch and follow United as I always have, like it's built into who I am and overrides my lost love for football.
I often hope I'll rekindle my love for football. I tried really hard to get a buzz going for the Euros and eagerly tuned in for the first couple of matches and for a short while it was somewhat entertaining, but not for long.
I think my last roll of the dice is that I need to actually start playing a bit of football. I'm 29 and I haven't meaningfully kicked a ball in 10-15 years, it's almost like I can't appreciate what's going on on the pitch because I forget what it is to even do that flick or make that pass. Like it's become impossible to relate to and appreciate. I dunno.
I don't watch matches not involving United. When I do, I'm clearly pretending to myself that I'm enjoying it and after a while I accept that I have no interest and turn it off. It's almost like a bit of denial.
I still watch and follow United as I always have, like it's built into who I am and overrides my lost love for football.
I often hope I'll rekindle my love for football. I tried really hard to get a buzz going for the Euros and eagerly tuned in for the first couple of matches and for a short while it was somewhat entertaining, but not for long.
I think my last roll of the dice is that I need to actually start playing a bit of football. I'm 29 and I haven't meaningfully kicked a ball in 10-15 years, it's almost like I can't appreciate what's going on on the pitch because I forget what it is to even do that flick or make that pass. Like it's become impossible to relate to and appreciate. I dunno.
Completely agree. I was spoilt growing up watching Kanchelskis, Giggs, Ronaldhino etc, players with flair and unpredictability that would break the shackles and do something special.
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I don’t think you’re the barometer for everyone, but at all times people’s interest in any sport will vary, so neither will you be alone, I think.
I believe for moat people who grow fond of and tired of a sport, it’s difficult to know what causes it, because so many things come into play. For me, I fell in love with football at a time and age when I didn’t understand any of the tactical variations you talk about. I’ve seen over some of the football I watched back then, and to be honest it was slower, with fewr chances, fewer tricks, fewer moves of genious or passages of fast nd beautiful interplay than what even this season of Man United has shown up - in fact, hasn’t this season’s United delivered in abundance on all the things you consciously seem to call for.
Isn’t this in fact a description of this season’s United games: ‘defenders sitting deep, and midfielders not helping them. This tactic encouraged the opposing team to try their luck, thus creating space on the pitch for a range of passes, and both distance and width for runners to run.’
‘last ditch defending, maestro midfielders, and speedy/aggressive attackers. The result was end to end, fast paced, relentless counter-attacking football that I personally enjoyed most. Growing up, I didn't always see my club win, but I was never bored. Football was full of risk and fun.’
Reading this, it might seem like the only difference with tegards to United, is that you don’t find these sort of games, like 4-3 v Liverpool or 3-4 v Chelsea, that much fun anymore. Maybe you have become more expectant after all to see your team win first and foremost?
As for England, so far this championship they’ve united the opposite of what you describe, with the capasity to conduct goal-draughted draws and procede at minimal cost. Like Italy in the WC 1982 group games? While teams like Germany, Spain, Portugal, Austria, even Turkey and Hungary at times, have shown more open football with plenty of room for individual brilliance.
Tbh I think just a couple of those actions shown by Fabian Ruiz, or Musiala this week, would fill the whole memory of a championship if Roberto Baggio performed them when I was younger.
The England performances have added to this feeling im sure, its so lifeless and drab to watch, but the overall standard of the Euro's appears to be a lot lower than previously. Italy and Germany of old are the best example, they would both have wiped the floor with the current crop. I think the move towards less contact is also a factor too, it means teams have to be more controlled in their play and cant afford to fly into tackles anymore, we'll never see a Keane/Vieira style battle again.
There is definitely less characters in today's game too, the media training and seeing the post match soulless interviews is a snooze and its definitely getting worse.
In summary, agree with OP and there's multiple reasons for it!
There is definitely less characters in today's game too, the media training and seeing the post match soulless interviews is a snooze and its definitely getting worse.
In summary, agree with OP and there's multiple reasons for it!
Peps system of defensive football is boring as he'll. It reminds me of when jacques lemaire created a system for the Devils of the NHL. It works great but made hockey unwatchable. I feel the same about city. Or anywhere pep goes. The mose defense, risk adverse, and systematic tactics I have ever seen of a top club coach.
However just like the NHL, football has a opportunity to change some rules.
Stop keepers from being able to control the ball outside of the box.
No back passes over center line after zone is gained.
Those 2 changes alone should have a huge impact on the game.
SAF's philosophy was that of entertainment. Attacking football with risk, courage, and pace. He believed that he owed it to the fans to entertain them. What a legend. One of a kind.
However just like the NHL, football has a opportunity to change some rules.
Stop keepers from being able to control the ball outside of the box.
No back passes over center line after zone is gained.
Those 2 changes alone should have a huge impact on the game.
SAF's philosophy was that of entertainment. Attacking football with risk, courage, and pace. He believed that he owed it to the fans to entertain them. What a legend. One of a kind.
Maybe we're seeing a similar effect to the back end of Formula 1 rule sets in that football is reaching the upper echelons of what is physically possible which has created an amalgamation of coaches philosophies catered towards playing the ideal system with it all being perpetuated by the data driven approach all sports have adopted further catering towards duller, system driven players.
Obviously the big difference being in F1 it creates much closer races whereas in football it just creates monotone forms of similar styled play. There's still wonderous moments, look at Garnacho's overhead kick & the FA Cup final from our season alone, which makes me wonder whether we've put our rose tinted glassed on and remember the good moments rather than the drab 90 minute 0-0's, and you can't help yourself but think it used to be better when you're sat through another Utd/England snooze fest. But I would agree, football seems to be heading towards a more drab, system driven approach.
Obviously the big difference being in F1 it creates much closer races whereas in football it just creates monotone forms of similar styled play. There's still wonderous moments, look at Garnacho's overhead kick & the FA Cup final from our season alone, which makes me wonder whether we've put our rose tinted glassed on and remember the good moments rather than the drab 90 minute 0-0's, and you can't help yourself but think it used to be better when you're sat through another Utd/England snooze fest. But I would agree, football seems to be heading towards a more drab, system driven approach.
Sure he was a legend, but that wasn't what made SAF unique, lots of manager's believe(d) in that.
For me this is the tournament i enjoyed the most since years. Didn't watch the last WC for obvious reasons but this one is just ace. Apart from the england games there have hardly been shit matches. Euros for me are just much more fun then the WC. Should always be held in central european countries.
Most of the CL games at the time looked like this.
I gave you the random example of Roma-Valencia game.
You could dig up any random game at the time and more often than not, it would be a boring slow-paced affair with perhaps some rare moments of magic by some individual player.
I think United fans overestimate that entire era because United was one of the rare sides that played decent football back then. But Serie A was the best league at the time and it was a snoozefest.
I agree. It’s become a game dominated by coaches, not by players, like they’re horses with the handbrake on, not free thinking humans. It kills the sport.
I've almost completely transitioned over to being a NBA and NFL fan over football. Both of those sports excite me more than football, outside of Chelsea games.
I was obsessed with football 10 and 20 years ago. So tired of it now, finding it more boring each year.
Well, a sign that you, like me, is getting older and maybe have a family. Everything in my life changed since I became a father. There is no time to watch every game and analyze every pass and every system. There is too much sports around to do that.
Watched it for 10mins and instantly fell in love with the sport again.
I could see more running, more ranged passes with actually good accuracy and consistency, more dribbles enough 'chaos' in 10mins that made us stay rooted to our seats in anticipation than 70% of the matches right now.
Everyone and their pet right now know exactly what they other is planning so it's just a tedious watch and good warm up activity for the players untill a mistake is explored.
Match goers or football viewers nowadays could stay off their TV's maybe check for scores and statistics online and wouldn't miss a thing.
The "blink and you miss it" kind of suspense that made us love the sport is gone.
I will definitely dig up more matches like this for my viewing pleasure.
I tried with Basketball, but there's just no tension in the high scoring nature of it to me. I found it ugly and awkward aesthetically as well.
I don't think we have the same spread of talent in the game currently as say 15-20 years ago. We have infinite wide forwards playing exactly the same way, and I was bored to death with the left footed wide forward cutting in 10 years ago, overall styles are homogenized, everyone playing the same way just to different standards.
All a bit uninspiring. There has been a positive shift in this tournament away, or if not a shift, a confirmation that tiki-taka is done, brilliantly dull football.
I miss the characters and style of the 90/00's hard to beat watching artists like Zidane and Ronaldinho, football as a visual spectacle doesn't get better than that.
Look at Italy at Euro 2000, had Inzaghi, Del Piero, Totti, Montella and Delvechhio as strikers, were missing Vieri through injury, and were able to leave out Baggio, Signori, Chiesa and Zola by choice. Now they have Scamacca.
All a bit uninspiring. There has been a positive shift in this tournament away, or if not a shift, a confirmation that tiki-taka is done, brilliantly dull football.
I miss the characters and style of the 90/00's hard to beat watching artists like Zidane and Ronaldinho, football as a visual spectacle doesn't get better than that.
Look at Italy at Euro 2000, had Inzaghi, Del Piero, Totti, Montella and Delvechhio as strikers, were missing Vieri through injury, and were able to leave out Baggio, Signori, Chiesa and Zola by choice. Now they have Scamacca.
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It’s just not the same game anymore, players were on the piss constantly and now it’s all about, power, speed and fitness., nutrition. Most teams used to play 4-4-2 which left the game open a bit more. Now it’s constant pressing and less time on the ball. Tactics are getting better and better now as well that players are more and more pressed that they find it hard to show their natural ability. There’s three players surrounding you when you have the ball and the opposition trying to block off any easy passes. I’m not the biggest fan of the modern game.
5 subs has also exacerbated this, you can change half the outfield players so the game doesn’t break up in the same way in the last 15 minutes. I hate having 5 subs.
United and England have been amongst the worst teams to watch at this level for quite a few years now, so that's probably a big reason.
IMO most sports trend towards boring as they become better / more efficient.
Errors are effectively what make a game entertaining. Increase in player ability, more ‘optimal’ tactics and better coaching ultimately lead to a reduction in errors / entertainment
Throw in top nutrition, training and medicine and you end up with these master of everything robots. The skill gap effectively shrinks at the top level. The only way you change it is by changing the rules.
See: basketball, tennis
Errors are effectively what make a game entertaining. Increase in player ability, more ‘optimal’ tactics and better coaching ultimately lead to a reduction in errors / entertainment
Throw in top nutrition, training and medicine and you end up with these master of everything robots. The skill gap effectively shrinks at the top level. The only way you change it is by changing the rules.
See: basketball, tennis
I've had to watch football from other leagues to find enjoyment. I find the EPL has become boring.
I like international football a lot more these days though, I don't league football and all the hoopla that surrounds it
I like international football a lot more these days though, I don't league football and all the hoopla that surrounds it
I think this is bang on. We've optimized the game away and arrived at somewhere close to the peak given the current rulebook. I feel a rulebook change is necessary to breathe some life into football. One simple fix could be to punish fouls committed when pressing more severely. i.e., you can't simply run at at a 100mph towards the guy that's about to receive the ball and hope to win it / commit a soft foul on the player.
Failing that it needs a different kind of player / tactician to emerge to break this strangehold that Guardiola and his disciples have on the game.
I used to relish the summers of World Cups and Euros, planning to watch every game. So far this euros I’ve watched a movie or done something else during half the games. It was the same with the last World Cup. Football is just losing its appeal to me. I have a long list of reasons why, most of which have been covered in this thread.
International football is better than years ago imo, decent start to this Euros and the last two World Cups were as good as any in the past 30 years. Club football is becoming stale due to ownership issues, greed and repetition - Real Madrid against Bayern Munich in the CL every year, Man City winning the league barely losing a game in the run-in. Fantasy football is probably the best thing the Premier League have done, sustains so much interest in it.
I'm glad that you enjoyed it. Maybe I watch too many 00s games for nostalgic reasons and I became bored by them so I don't appreciate them anymore and prefer modern intense and structured games for that reason.
Here's another random game I watched recently, Inter-Benfica from 2003/04 UEFA Cup. This one is very chaotic if you like that.
Used to love watching Seria A on a Sunday, the old school Italian teams were great, both Milan’s, Juve, Fiorentina, Parma, the one old bald Lombardi (??) used to play for, great TV.When I was a kid you could get on a national tv broadcast one Serie A game on Sundays, usually some derby and one CL game on Wednesdays. From time to time they'd have a Premier league game and I would be happy as a pig in a mud watching that. You'd cherise the occasion.
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I used to love that Florentina team. Rui Costa and Batistuta obviously come to mind. Plus the two ancient looking guys playing up front for Juve; Ravanelli & Vialli, with young go-getter Del Piero buzzing around the wings. Happy days.
Yeah they were good days, build up and commentary always seemed good as well due to not being on often.
Because creative players with individual brilliance and the maestro CAM are seen as a luxury player now.
You are a terrible human being with terrible taste.
What you are describing is mindless though, it's just rushing and hoping for the best.
This is the least interested I’ve ever been in a major international tournament I think. The big teams are all a bit bland, there’s waaay too many nothing teams, and everyone goes through anyway.
Hoping for a small upset. Portugal winning it or something like that.
Hoping for a small upset. Portugal winning it or something like that.
I definitely feel like the 00's was the prime period in football with a great mixture of formations, tactics, maverick players, better defenders, better keepers, proper number 9's, well drilled sides, the right level of physicality and balanced blend of class lower centre of gravity players and giants thriving in the game, I mean where are the graceful 6'2 viera's, Pires's, zidane's and Ibrahimovic's in todays game
There’s definitely something to be said for not having football just on demand at any time. If you missed Gazetta Football Italia on a Sunday (Saturday maybe?) morning, that was that. You were unlikely to see any of the games again.
Haha yes, Attilio Lombardo you mean, he was an icon.
From a United point of view, wasn't last season a complete antithesis to modern football? In a bad way though but still
I didn't think that match in the video seemed all that boring. The pitch is shit and perhaps the commentators are dull, but I appreciate the movement and lack of fouls + playacting. It's also different when it's with teams you're not invested in emotionally. I agree that there is a big nostalgia factor in this thread but maybe they're onto something with the differences when comparing like for like. Maybe it's Pep's tactics influencing the style of today and hopefully it's counteracted by more free flowing heavy metal football in the coming times.
I think you guys should be more open minded. You are missing out on lots of good experiences if you're so stuck in the past. Football is always changing, some old folks probably said the same as you do when it was in what you call its prime.
For what it's worth, football has become less individualistic and single players, regardless of how good they are, can't impact a match the same way they used to if their own team is being outclassed. But this also means there is a much greater emphasis on team play. The better the players link up with each other, the more opportunities are there for the individuals to shine. And IMO, that leads to a lot of great stories like Napoli in Serie A last season or Leverkusen and Stuttgart this season. And there are so many interesting young coaches around to keep an eye on. Alonso, Motta, de Zerbi, Hoeneß, Inzaghi, Hürzeler, Slot, Amorim, ...
For what it's worth, football has become less individualistic and single players, regardless of how good they are, can't impact a match the same way they used to if their own team is being outclassed. But this also means there is a much greater emphasis on team play. The better the players link up with each other, the more opportunities are there for the individuals to shine. And IMO, that leads to a lot of great stories like Napoli in Serie A last season or Leverkusen and Stuttgart this season. And there are so many interesting young coaches around to keep an eye on. Alonso, Motta, de Zerbi, Hoeneß, Inzaghi, Hürzeler, Slot, Amorim, ...
Yes that’s him, Sampdoria I think it was.Haha yes, Attilio Lombardo you mean, he was an icon.