Is this the worst it's been?

[Red_toad]

From a historical perspective, there clearly have been worse times, including relegations. Considering what United are recently, for the money spent, it is startling that against a Championship side an inexperienced youth product was asked to take a crucial penalty. Things are just not right on many fronts.

From a historical perspective 64 years ago was terrible for the club. Seems now every time we lose it’s an online meltdown and the end of the world.
At some point a lot of Caf posters need to decide where their heads are at, seems a lot are getting mentally affected by the teams results, if it’s that bad for them, then they should really go find something else to obsess with.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I doubt it. What level is that? I’ve played with and against national team players, Bundesliga 2 players, and at a semi pro level.

If you did play regularly at 37, you’d know that your decline is in pace and strength, not technique. That is always there, but you need to practice and when you hit a dry patch you need to work your way through it by training and game time.

If you were a striker, you’d also know that confidence is really important in finishing.

By the way, you’re still ignorant

How old are you?

 

[DSG]

I bet I’ve competed at a better level than you. I also bet I’m older than you. So know what it’s like to be 37 years old and in decline as a footballer

Also possible you’re an idiot. Can’t rule that out.

Also, you failed to address Rashford and Bruno’s recent lack of finishing… they can’t improve either?

 

[Utd heap]

Fantastic to see a bit of my Dads bigger than your Dad on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[Ralph1386]

Three years of Ole and his coaching would leave any top side in disarray.

We need to accept that it was an amateurish and disastrous decision by the club and really consider what people we have in what roles.

No other top club would do what we did and stick through it for 3 years, so we have to suffer the consequences.

It has lowered standards, ruined an entire coaching set up and wasted key years of players development.

It’s done, and it’s going to take a lot of very good decisions to get out of this self made

What we did with Ole is the equivalent of hiring the manager who got Fulham or Sheffield relegated last year, and giving him 500mil to spend in less than three years. Absolutely mind boggling.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Also, you failed to address Rashford and Bruno’s recent lack of finishing… they can’t improve either?

Of course they can improve. Especially Rashford. What’s that got to do with 37 year old Ronaldo?

 

[DSG]

How old are you?

Way older than 37 and I’ve played regularly in 11v11 leagues and 7 a side tournaments after I “retired” (ha!) from semi pro. Maybe you are different, but for me, I need those extra reps. I still play, and I feel I’m better at finishing now than I was when I was 26. The competition is a bit lower, but power/placement has improved.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Way older than 37 and I’ve played regularly in 11v11 leagues and 7 a side tournaments after I “retired” (ha!) from semi pro. Maybe you are different, but for me, I need those extra reps. I still play, and I feel I’m better at finishing now than I was when I was 26. The competition is a bit lower, but power/placement has improved.

Good on you. I no longer play. My knees are fecked. Surely you can remember what it’s like being past your peak? When in your head you’ll get to the ball easily but in reality you’re a fraction late? It’s a nightmare I thought every aged footballer could relate to? Because that’s exactly what I see every time Ronaldo tries and fails to stay on his feet in and around the box. A 37 year old who’s a shadow of his former self.

 

[RedBanker]

Was curious to see who bumped this thread. Wasn't surprised at all.

 

[noodlehair]

I'm 37 in a few months. Can't say I've really felt the fitness or sharpness being an issue yet. My most effective tactic when I play is still running my opponent into the ground due to my limited actual footballing ability vs ability to run about fairly easily for 90 minutes.

What I have noticed is it has a bigger impact the day after. Things ache that never used to. Sometimes I'll just randomly have a bad back for 2-3 days after playing. Not dehabilitating but enough that it would affect me if I tried to play again 2 days after. I would guess this is where it becomes more of a problem for a high level athlete. They might still have the sharpness for a one off game, but when they have training every day and games every 3 they have to either play within themselves to protect their conditioning, or miss out at least every other game to be able to put everything into it.

Although obviously I'm not an elite level athlete...and have to factor in I didn't really concentrate on my fitness until probably late 20s, so probably am still a lot fitter and sharper than I was 10 years ago. Where as that definitely wont be the case with someone like Ronaldo who's used to being the world's fittest man.

 

[That_Bloke]

Nothing quite like the feeling of your brain saying you're fast enough to get to a ball then realising all of a sudden that no, you can't, it's such a strange experience especially if you've spent a lifetime being one of the fastest players....

Word.

I really started to feel it around 33-34. That ever growing dissonance between your brain and your body, things you honestly thought you could do and suddenly just don't anymore. Incredibly frustrating and very difficult to admit until you resign yourself to the cold, hard truth and change your game. Or play at a lower level.

 

[Kinsella]

It probably is. When the club signed Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho I genuinly thought we would challenge for the league, cup and at least qualify for the quarter finals un CL. But this has been an absolute disaster of a season! I reckon Atletico will qualify pretty easily for the quarter finals and I doubt we will reach end in top 4 in the PL. For the first time ever I’m beginning to lose faith in the club I’ve loved since childhood.

I don't get this notion some people had re: challenging for the league.

Signings aside, why did you think United would challenge for the league...with the centre midfielders currently at the club?

 

[Pughnichi]

I doubt it. What level is that? I’ve played with and against national team players, Bundesliga 2 players, and at a semi pro level.

This is like question of sport

 

[Silverman]

I think there were a lot of positives from last night's game.

 

[Ixion]

I doubt it. What level is that? I’ve played with and against national team players, Bundesliga 2 players, and at a semi pro level.

If you did play regularly at 37, you’d know that your decline is in pace and strength, not technique. That is always there, but you need to practice and when you hit a dry patch you need to work your way through it by training and game time.

If you were a striker, you’d also know that confidence is really important in finishing.

By the way, you’re still ignorant

I dont think you need to be a semi-pro to know pace goes with age and strikers thrive on confidence bro.

 

[alexthelion]

Every time I think it just can't get any worse and it's all up from here... somehow it gets even worse. The darkest days in this club's modern history.

When do the modern days start?

I remember us being relegated, that's far, far worse than what's happening this season.

 

[red4ever 79]

Only going to get worse.

4 players out of contract in the summer. No permanent manager in place to already be planning for life after those

A lot of the players who will be here are average.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Hate to burst all you bubbles, but I'm 81 years old and considered by many to be the greatest player of all time. 37 year olds don't improve. You may not lose technique with age, but the strength and pace loss makes it harder to comfortabel apply said technique.

That's why you see more sloppy passes and touche in over time. All your attributen decline when you're tired.

Also, my dad can kick all your dads arses.

 

[Smores]

Hate to burst all you bubbles, but I'm 81 years old and considered by many to be the greatest player of all time. 37 year olds don't improve. You may not lose technique with age, but the strength and pace loss makes it harder to comfortabel apply said technique.

That's why you see more sloppy passes and touche in over time. All your attributen decline when you're tired.

Also, my dad can kick all your dads arses.

81 that's nothing! I died on my 123rd birthday 10 years ago and I'm still as quick as Tory chasing a donor.

Ronaldo is still faster than a lot of players younger than him on the sprint but it's obvious his endurance is an issue.

If we use him widely and limit his gametime a little then he'll be fine but it's not like we actually have many better options. We're going to have to play Rashford up front occasionally, not that his finishing was any better yesterday.

 

[sdb4884]

Worst it's been since following the club since the early 90's. No positive end in sight, only when the Glazers feck off can I see something positive happening for us on the field.

 

[humdinger]

Ridiculous bump. This was a very disappointing result but a generally decent performance against a very fortunate underdog. Nowhere near the harrowing last weeks under Ole.

 

[Rayman96]

The trouble at Ronaldo's age is that when you start to decline, its usually rapidly. Most just retire or move down the leagues (or USA etc) so we dont really pay that much attention but this is different.
Ronaldo is trying to carry Utd which if we really think about it is actually crazy strategy. Keeping him on for 120 mins last night was madness even for penalties.
If we could somehow use him as an impact player or even limited minutes starter it could work to a degree but lets be realistic, that will never happen.
Pep and Klopp's genetically enhanced lovechild couldn't solve us right now.

 

[DSG]

Good on you. I no longer play. My knees are fecked. Surely you can remember what it’s like being past your peak? When in your head you’ll get to the ball easily but in reality you’re a fraction late? It’s a nightmare I thought every aged footballer could relate to? Because that’s exactly what I see every time Ronaldo tries and fails to stay on his feet in and around the box. A 37 year old who’s a shadow of his former self.

I see a player who has lost a step, but he’s still faster than most CBs, his movement in the box is delightful, and he still seems to get chances. I don’t think that ANYTHING is different from Oct/Nov/Dec other than confidence. He’s falling in the box because he’s getting pulled down or trying to get penalties. The only problem with him right now is confidence, which is why he missed the penalty. Also, NO ONE, not even Peter Crouch could get to the crosses Dalit and Shaw were putting in… dreadful.

Regarding the getting old and the issue of getting to a ball, if you are in shape and playing regularly, your mind adjusts and you will know if you can get there or not. Like I said, I still play regularly — frequently against 20s/30s players and I have no problem. I’m 6’1 175 though and I run / cycle / exercise. Also two ACL reconstructions .

not sure why this devolved into this. Suffice it to say, sure, there is definitely drop off, but I do think there is clearly a squad wide drop off in finishing in front of goal. I can only guess training and confidence. That’s on Ralf.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I see a player who has lost a step, but he’s still faster than most CBs, his movement in the box is delightful, and he still seems to get chances. I don’t think that ANYTHING is different from Oct/Nov/Dec other than confidence. He’s falling in the box because he’s getting pulled down or trying to get penalties. The only problem with him right now is confidence, which is why he missed the penalty. Also, NO ONE, not even Peter Crouch could get to the crosses Dalit and Shaw were putting in… dreadful.

Regarding the getting old and the issue of getting to a ball, if you are in shape and playing regularly, your mind adjusts and you will know if you can get there or not. Like I said, I still play regularly — frequently against 20s/30s players and I have no problem. I’m 6’1 175 though and I run / cycle / exercise. Also two ACL reconstructions .

not sure why this devolved into this. Suffice it to say, sure, there is definitely drop off, but I do think there is clearly a squad wide drop off in finishing in front of goal. I can only guess training and confidence. That’s on Ralf.

Trying to blame Ralf for Ronaldo’s poor finishing is badly missing the point. We’ve scored 12 league goals under the new manager. Of which our undroppable number 9 has scored 2. A penalty and a tap in after McT hit the bar.

To claim that a player as experienced as Ronaldo would have scored more goals if Ralf was better at teaching him how to finish is one of the worst takes I’ve ever seen on here.

 

[Chicharo]

This isn't even in the vicinity of being as bad as it could get if City win The Treble...

 

[Jed I. Knight]

Nothing quite like the feeling of your brain saying you're fast enough to get to a ball then realising all of a sudden that no, you can't, it's such a strange experience especially if you've spent a lifetime being one of the fastest players....

It’s a genuinely confusing experience. You don’t think about these things, it’s just instinct and habit established through training and repetition. Then one day, the things you used to pull off without a second thought suddenly stop working.

 

[Caesar2290]

I'm 37 in a few months. Can't say I've really felt the fitness or sharpness being an issue yet. My most effective tactic when I play is still running my opponent into the ground due to my limited actual footballing ability vs ability to run about fairly easily for 90 minutes.

What I have noticed is it has a bigger impact the day after. Things ache that never used to. Sometimes I'll just randomly have a bad back for 2-3 days after playing. Not dehabilitating but enough that it would affect me if I tried to play again 2 days after. I would guess this is where it becomes more of a problem for a high level athlete. They might still have the sharpness for a one off game, but when they have training every day and games every 3 they have to either play within themselves to protect their conditioning, or miss out at least every other game to be able to put everything into it.

Although obviously I'm not an elite level athlete...and have to factor in I didn't really concentrate on my fitness until probably late 20s, so probably am still a lot fitter and sharper than I was 10 years ago. Where as that definitely wont be the case with someone like Ronaldo who's used to being the world's fittest man.

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

That would explain why SAF never gave Giggs or Scholes more than one 90 minute match a week, sometimes even skipping a match or two. Though I doubt Ronaldo who's obssessed about records and trophies would agree to a bit part role.

My question to you is: don't you think that you starting to focus on fitness late in your 20's played to your advantage, as you didn't force the body to exhaust burn itself out for the previous 10 years?

I imagine Ronaldo must be playing through pain at this point, though knowing how stubborn he is he probably ignores this.

 

[noodlehair]

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

That would explain why SAF never gave Giggs or Scholes more than one 90 minute match a week, sometimes even skipping a match or two. Though I doubt Ronaldo who's obssessed about records and trophies would agree to a bit part role.

My question to you is: don't you think that you starting to focus on fitness late in your 20's played to your advantage, as you didn't force the body to exhaust burn itself out for the previous 10 years?

I imagine Ronaldo must be playing through pain at this point, though knowing how stubborn he is he probably ignores this.

Yeah I definitely think that's a factor. Not so much me not being as fit in my early to mid twenties, because if anything that would be a disadvantage. But its definitely a factor I think for a professional athlete in terms of the toll it takes on your body over your career. Its easy to take a few months off when its just a hobby, or not put as much into it. You are also just keeping yourself generally as fit as you think suits you or your lifestyle, rather than constantly pushing yourself to almost extreme limits.

I think its really unlikely someone like Ronaldo who gets kicked every week and prides himself on pushing his fitness and ability to its limits, doesn't pick up niggling problems from one year to the next and doesn't have battle scars. Or as an example I had a friend who showed Joe Cole round a house once, and he didn't like the house because it had a spiral staircase and his back was so fecked it couldn't really deal with it...and this was while he was still playing I think?

SAF was pretty open that this is why he wouldn't play Scholes or Giggs in every game. I think midfield is more of a problem as well with age, as you can't really moderate yourself through one game to the next because your opponent WILL try to run you into the ground. As a striker you can get away with conserving your runs and energy more, espeically if you're smart positionally. You can even loose a bit of sharpness and compensate for it to some degree. In midfield you lose half a second and it means the opposition just run past you.

Think you're exactly right that the biggest issue with Ronaldo is he wouldn't be happy sitting on the bench 50% of the time, even though that's probably how to get the best out of him. I think that was the concern a lot of people had when we signed him. His ability level in itself is so high it doesn't really matter if its declined a bit

 

[M Bison]

That loss to Liverpool and when this thread was created was a far worse time.

We’ll be stronger next season I think, Ralf will be upstairs so we have some continuity and we’ll have Ten Haag in place, we’ll sign Declan Rice, Pogba/Ronaldo/Cavani will all be gone. We’ll see more of the likes of Hannibal and possibly Laird and Garner. Rashford will return to form and we’ll see the Dortmund version of Sancho.

I remain optimistic, just need to get this season done and hopefully get that 4th spot!

 

[Jeppers7]

Way older than 37 and I’ve played regularly in 11v11 leagues and 7 a side tournaments after I “retired” (ha!) from semi pro. Maybe you are different, but for me, I need those extra reps. I still play, and I feel I’m better at finishing now than I was when I was 26. The competition is a bit lower, but power/placement has improved.

You both sound like five year olds ‘my dads bigger than your dad.’

 

[Jeppers7]

That loss to Liverpool and when this thread was created was a far worse time.

We’ll be stronger next season I think, Ralf will be upstairs so we have some continuity and we’ll have Ten Haag in place, we’ll sign Declan Rice, Pogba/Ronaldo/Cavani will all be gone. We’ll see more of the likes of Hannibal and possibly Laird and Garner. Rashford will return to form and we’ll see the Dortmund version of Sancho.

I remain optimistic, just need to get this season done and hopefully get that 4th spot!

I like your optimism. It feels a long way back for us. I feel like we were getting somewhere post lockdown and we could see that a world class CB and DM could have us really challenging. We obviously failed to address those areas that summer, kept a manager with little tactical acumen for too long and wasted an opportunity. Now many of those players are going/gone (physically and or mentally) we look likely to need a full rebuild once again.

 

[AndySmith1990]

It's been a disaster of a season all round. But frankly I'm past caring about this season and I'm optimistic it gives us a platform to make some much needed changes next season.

Woodward is gone for starters. We'll have a new manager. Hopefully we'll have a decent clear out in the summer; Martial, Pogba, Lingard, Jones, Mata, Ronaldo, Cavani.
We can freshen up the team. With Ralf moving upstairs and a new manager in place I hope we can start finding some good cheaper options that suit a specific system; players hungry to achieve success rather than joining for the £200k salary, and players that, as a whole, equal more than the sum of their parts, which is the opposite of what we've had since Ferguson left. We'll hopefully see a couple players promoted from the u21s too.

 

[Bestietom]

I'm 71 this year. I played football until I was 40 at a lower level. Played 7 asides until I eventually had trouble with my ticker at 46
and had to retire.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

That would explain why SAF never gave Giggs or Scholes more than one 90 minute match a week, sometimes even skipping a match or two. Though I doubt Ronaldo who's obssessed about records and trophies would agree to a bit part role.

My question to you is: don't you think that you starting to focus on fitness late in your 20's played to your advantage, as you didn't force the body to exhaust burn itself out for the previous 10 years?

I imagine Ronaldo must be playing through pain at this point, though knowing how stubborn he is he probably ignores this.

I read this sort of thing a lot on here. "Ronaldo wouldn't agree to this"

Since when did a player disobeying a manager become acceptable?

 

[M Bison]

I like your optimism. It feels a long way back for us. I feel like we were getting somewhere post lockdown and we could see that a world class CB and DM could have us really challenging. We obviously failed to address those areas that summer, kept a manager with little tactical acumen for too long and wasted an opportunity. Now many of those players are going/gone (physically and or mentally) we look likely to need a full rebuild once again.

I genuinely don’t think we’re far off and a Declan Rice would make a huge difference in my view.

The Greenwood issue has put a huge spanner in the works and does create another hole, but we’ve plenty in the youth ranks that could help.

 

[Litch]

Fantastic to see a bit of my Dads bigger than your Dad on a Saturday afternoon.

….I think people are going to start asking how much they can bench press next?

 

[Litch]

I guess it’s all a bit subjective. If you are born in the era of winning things, then clearly your lens will be different than those like myself that had to put up with Liverpool winning everything aside from us or Arsenal wining a cup.

I actually think conversely that whilst we are the furthest away, we are actually the closest. There are a lot of players here that have failed to deliver and they need to leave. We have players here that are committed to the club but are not good enough and shouldn’t be starters. Some of the players fans want to come in aren’t good enough either otherwise we would be just replicating the mistakes we have already made. What we are seeing now, is completely different from the appointment of this manager and that’s why it’s the right direction. I’m hoping we are going to see the emergence of some of the very talented young players at the club….

 

[Still ill]

Oh certainly not. Because we lost to a Championship side in the cup? Everyone can see what we're at at the moment. Pure transition, interim manager trying to get to grips with a highly dysfunctional club, mass clearouts, disaffected players. I feel he's making progress and the other night was still on the right path, result notwithstanding. I have felt MUCH lower than this in the recent past.

 

[croadyman]

That loss to Liverpool and when this thread was created was a far worse time.

We’ll be stronger next season I think, Ralf will be upstairs so we have some continuity and we’ll have Ten Haag in place, we’ll sign Declan Rice, Pogba/Ronaldo/Cavani will all be gone. We’ll see more of the likes of Hannibal and possibly Laird and Garner. Rashford will return to form and we’ll see the Dortmund version of Sancho.

I remain optimistic, just need to get this season done and hopefully get that 4th spot!

Do you want someone who by the sounds of it sees us as backup to his boyhood club though

 

[M Bison]

Do you want someone who by the sounds of it sees us as backup to his boyhood club though

personally, yes I’d take him in a heartbeat. Assume you wouldn’t for that reason, which is fair enough.