Is there a place for Rashford as a regular starter?

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youmeletsfly said:
Only on this page there are literally at least 5-6 good examples on why people hate him. Hate is a strong word, I know, but people don't like him because he hasn't changed 1% of his game since he was a 19 year old. Actually, I'd say his game went downhill once he reached the age of 20 and started to not pass the ball, not press and occasionally sulk. I'm not even going to mention his football intelligence, it's not even worth discussing.

He will come good to a standard that is acceptable for Man United in the last 10 years, 10-15 goals a season, a few assists and the usual performances in which he misses 80% of a game and then scores a goal. In the last game Ronaldo had more defensive contribution than him and that says a lot. I remember the United boards 15 years ago were fecking fuming when Cristiano would blindly dribble into 5 players and shoot from every position on the pitch, I don't get why it's a travesty to treat Rashford the same, what changed?

I can't say it's his fault (even if it is) because of the wonderful stuff that he's done outside the game but that counts to jack shit when he's on the field. I think even Ole said in a conference that he needs to focus on his game and then they tried to spin it like it wasn't a critical observation.

I actually think a move wouldn't be that bad for his career as he stagnated here in the last 3-4 seasons. He needs to find a way to recover these last 3-4 years and somehow add some good decision making into his game.
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But he literally scored 20+ goals last season and has been one of our most important players in that time, that doesn't translate to anything in your first sentence.

I don't think people really factor in his achievements off the pitch when they assess the player, I know I certainly don't. I think what he's done off the pitch is outstanding and he's a 1st class role model, but how he performs for United is still my primary concern. The two things should not really overlap in the discussion.

On being greedy, I don't think he's worse than Greenwood or Ronaldo in this respect, in fact he's one of the few who gets his head up for an assist when running into the box like we saw in the Arsenal game for Ronaldo.

Again on your last sentence, he literally had his best goal scoring season last season with us, he's been on an upward trajectory in this regard, why should we be looking to move him on? I'm not sure why people have this extreme view on him, I mean compare him to Martial. Marcus carried us at times last season on his own whilst injured, meanwhile the likes of Martial you can't even expect to run and put an effort in. To me Marcus is one of the very last players I'd be looking to move on.
 
Borys said:
His competition on LW is Sancho who looks much better currently. Both on and off the ball. And Jadon is not in particularly great form, adapting to new league and teammates, so it doesn't look like Rashford is "nailed on" to start at all.
Right wing is considered his worst position (and good luck competing with Greenwood).
In 4222 he can only play the forward position, and IMO it's time to make the decision what to make of Rashford, because a wide player he is not.

Only people who see absolutely no flaws in Rashford game say things about "hate" towards him. You really have no issue with his work rate?
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On the bolded, there are posters claiming we should get rid of him and it's time for him to move on, when he's coming of a 20 goal season (his best here)... don't you think that seems a tad excessive? I've agreed that he is way out of form but he's coming back from injury and I genuinely don't believe it's a lack of effort, more the fact he's out of form and struggling with confidence.

Sancho will arguably feature more from the right though, but we will have to see, I think Sancho is a great talent, but I'm not expecting 20+ goals from him. Are we willing to throw away a player who contributes on that sort of level of goal scoring when in form?
 
youmeletsfly said:
He will come good to a standard that is acceptable for Man United in the last 10 years, 10-15 goals a season, a few assists and the usual performances in which he misses 80% of a game and then scores a goal.
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How many clubs at any level would be unhappy with 21 goals and 15 assists from their left winger in the previous season? Particularly given he was clearly playing injured a lot of the time.
How many clubs at any level would be unhappy with 22 goals and 12 assists from their left winger the season before that?
Heck how many clubs at any level would be unhappy with 13 goals and 10 assists from their 20/21 year old left winger the season before that again?

Is he playing well at the moment? No of course not and he probably shouldn't be in the starting 11 but some of the nonsense people spout about him is fecking ridiculous. If he was putting in those numbers at another club people on here would be creaming themselves at the idea of signing him.
 
JB7 said:
How many clubs at any level would be unhappy with 21 goals and 15 assists from their left winger in the previous season? Particularly given he was clearly playing injured a lot of the time.
How many clubs at any level would be unhappy with 22 goals and 12 assists from their left winger the season before that?
Heck how many clubs at any level would be unhappy with 13 goals and 10 assists from their 20/21 year old left winger the season before that again?

Is he playing well at the moment? No of course not and he probably shouldn't be in the starting 11 but some of the nonsense people spout about him is fecking ridiculous. If he was putting in those numbers at another club people on here would be creaming themselves at the idea of signing him.
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The discussion is not about a club being satisfied his stats, the club should be unsatisfied for everything that happens besides the stats. If you didn't understand that from my post, I'm sorry, read it again.
 
RUCK4444 said:
But he literally scored 20+ goals last season and has been one of our most important players in that time, that doesn't translate to anything in your first sentence.

I don't think people really factor in his achievements off the pitch when they assess the player, I know I certainly don't. I think what he's done off the pitch is outstanding and he's a 1st class role model, but how he performs for United is still my primary concern. The two things should not really overlap in the discussion.

On being greedy, I don't think he's worse than Greenwood or Ronaldo in this respect, in fact he's one of the few who gets his head up for an assist when running into the box like we saw in the Arsenal game for Ronaldo.

Again on your last sentence, he literally had his best goal scoring season last season with us, he's been on an upward trajectory in this regard, why should we be looking to move him on? I'm not sure why people have this extreme view on him, I mean compare him to Martial. Marcus carried us at times last season on his own whilst injured, meanwhile the likes of Martial you can't even expect to run and put an effort in. To me Marcus is one of the very last players I'd be looking to move on.
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People have this extreme vision on him because he is lazy and absent for 80% of the game. I don't give a rat's ass about him having this best scoring season last season, or the season before, it's not relevant when he is missing for more than half the game. I mean it's the same shit we're criticizing Ronaldo and Messi for, even if they score more than double than Marcus Rashford does. Why is it okay to be critical towards them and not critical towards Rashford? That is what my post is all about. I could have chosen better words to explain it, yes, of course, sorry.

I didn't say he's a bad player or that he should leave, I said that moving on might be better for his career and I strongly believe so.

If you want my honest opinion on him, he has huge potential if he achieves decent consistency and somehow eliminates those stupid moments in which he just shoves his head into grass and bombs forward. But, at them moment, he's incredibly frustrating to watch and, simply put, I don't like him in the team because he doesn't run, he's an average finisher and we have better options.
 
youmeletsfly said:
People have this extreme vision on him because he is lazy and absent for 80% of the game. I don't give a rat's ass about him having this best scoring season last season, or the season before, it's not relevant when he is missing for more than half the game. I mean it's the same shit we're criticizing Ronaldo and Messi for, even if they score more than double than Marcus Rashford does. Why is it okay to be critical towards them and not critical towards Rashford? That is what my post is all about. I could have chosen better words to explain it, yes, of course, sorry.

I didn't say he's a bad player or that he should leave, I said that moving on might be better for his career and I strongly believe so.

If you want my honest opinion on him, he has huge potential if he achieves decent consistency and somehow eliminates those stupid moments in which he just shoves his head into grass and bombs forward. But, at them moment, he's incredibly frustrating to watch and, simply put, I don't like him in the team because he doesn't run, he's an average finisher and we have better options.
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Yeah listen your entitled to your opinion it just sounds a bit double standards and a tad harsh, I mean Greenwood and Ronaldo miss a tonne of chances but we all still want to continue with them, the latter two aren't always involved in the game either, they have quiet spells and can be frustrating (Greenwood takes a load of shots with better options and so does Ronaldo.)

I think yours and other similar opinion is rooted in the fact you think he doesn't run enough? Which is not necessarily what I see when watching him, perhaps somebody can post stats? I'm sure somebody mentioned earlier today that Rashfords stats for pressing and running were similar to Sancho's in the last games and we all thought Sancho was good.

Like I say, your entitled to your opinion, the Rashford reactions just seems a tad ott, but each to their own.
 
youmeletsfly said:
The discussion is not about a club being satisfied his stats, the club should be unsatisfied for everything that happens besides the stats. If you didn't understand that from my post, I'm sorry, read it again.
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I read and understood your post, didn't necesarily agree with it and particularly took issue with the comment I quoted where you said that he will be of a level that "is acceptable to Manchester United in the last 10 years". I responded with a question being that how many clubs would be unhappy with a player if he was putting those numbers in? Those kind of stats are generally more than acceptable from a winger at any club anywhere in the world.

Regarding other areas of his game, I agree with you to an extent. He doesn't press anywhere near as smartly as he should, he doesn't make the right decisions a lot of the time in and out of possession and he certainly has been not playing well so far this season. However, we have just removed a manager that 99% of people on the Caf have been hammering for not coaching the players very well in their opinion. We have brought in a coach who insists upon pressing, retaining control and using the ball well - all areas that I think most of us would consider the weaker parts of Rashfords game? Surely this has to be a massive plus for us and him going forward? Given that he has shown he can put really good numbers in despite us not necessarily having a set way of playing, surely there is only room for progression over this season?
 
youmeletsfly said:
If you want my honest opinion on him, he has huge potential if he achieves decent consistency and somehow eliminates those stupid moments in which he just shoves his head into grass and bombs forward. But, at them moment, he's incredibly frustrating to watch and, simply put, I don't like him in the team because he doesn't run, he's an average finisher and we have better options.
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We do at the moment. This time last year, we didn't have Sancho or Ronaldo, Cavani was barely fit, and Greenwood and Martial were both hopelessly out of form. Rashford along with Fernandes was carrying our attack, but a good chunk of people on this forum were piling into him every week saying he was a midtable player. That's where the tendency to defend him with his output (which is quite good) comes from.

Regarding the point about him being "lazy", I'm going to wait and see what happens under Rangnick before deciding because it seemed pretty clear under Ole that Rashford was instructed to stay high up the pitch and find space so he could run in behind as soon as we won the ball. He worked as hard as anyone under Mourinho so I have no reason to think he'll just decide he can't be bothered to press defenders when told to.
 
youmeletsfly said:
The discussion is not about a club being satisfied his stats, the club should be unsatisfied for everything that happens besides the stats. If you didn't understand that from my post, I'm sorry, read it again.
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Well that's not exactly going to come from the clubs.

Fans are crying about poor management and poor coaching for so so long - then suddenly they start pointing at the players and younger ones for being a dissapointment.

It's exceptionally deluded.

It started happening with Greenwood too.
 
Borys said:
You're confusing hate with deserved criticism. Everyone wants him to suceed, he's our main star player and a great human being, but you also can't ignore tha flaws in his game.
Regarding little space or no angle to pass/ nobody available for a pass - it's true but also a big RESULT of his decision making, which is to put it mildly, questionable. Sancho and Greenwood are playing in the same team and they are much better at those basics.
Marcus problem is his decision making, meaning he is an ultra direct player so looks great in some games when he has space to run or pass into, but unfortunately most games require much "more" in terms of general play, link-up, tracking back and making himself available for the pass. I see Rashoford out of the game way too much to value him high, IMO Greenwood is already better player and if Sancho continues his grow will be picked ahead of Rashy as well.
He will be a regular, but he might not be first choice soon.
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I don’t think ‘sell him to Newcastle’ is deserved criticism, do you? I don’t think referring to him as ‘T-Rashford ’ is deserved criticism either.
I don’t disagree with any of the points you have made, I was addressing the more extreme comments here.
 
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Abraxas said:
He's not one of the first on the team sheet for "years to come" - why would he be? Under Ole he might have been but that is a decision that will be taken exclusively by the next manager.
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Last season he and Bruno were the top of the shots and assist targets. He contributed 21 goal involvements to the success and progress we saw last season, playing injured. Why would you take that out of the team?
 
9 Stone Elvis said:
He absolutely wont be if he continues as he is. Being capable of good moments will get you so far but if we want to return to the very top we need elite players in his position and if you take the Arsenal game for example you see why we have a problem with him.

I have no hate for him at all, id like nothing better than for him to be that elite level player but at the moment I dont think he will be and if he cant then its an issue.

The ONLY reason that I have any dislike for him (and its not actually for him) at all are sycophantic outpourings like this where everything else is the world is to blame for Marcus Rashford not playing well other than Marcus Rashford.
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I think you need to Google a definition of sycophantic,friend - I don’t know what advantage you think I hope to gain by defending our second best player from last season.
As for his recent performances, who has actually played well? We have had a bad period as a team and everybody has been equally poor. It’s not like only Marcus has been poor.
 
RUCK4444 said:
On the bolded, there are posters claiming we should get rid of him and it's time for him to move on, when he's coming of a 20 goal season (his best here)... don't you think that seems a tad excessive? I've agreed that he is way out of form but he's coming back from injury and I genuinely don't believe it's a lack of effort, more the fact he's out of form and struggling with confidence.

Sancho will arguably feature more from the right though, but we will have to see, I think Sancho is a great talent, but I'm not expecting 20+ goals from him. Are we willing to throw away a player who contributes on that sort of level of goal scoring when in form?
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Of course that's excessive, but that opinion is very rare and on the extreme end, there will always be someone who claims he's shite.
That's not important, the point is he is out of form, he's been scoring depsite having poor games (especially lat season) which is great. But he's been off form for a while and there's always an excuse for him. To me he doesn't look slow or something like he was getting back after injury, he's just in bad form. So I don't see why he should avoid criticism.
Rashford is actually a bit like United, a lot of goals scored last season, but we can hardly be happy with the performances level.
Plant0x84 said:
I don’t think ‘sell him to Newcastle’ is deserved criticism, do you? I don’t think referring to him as ‘T-Rashford ’ is deserved criticism either.
I don’t disagree with any of the points you have made, I was addressing the more extreme comments here.
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Well that's more of a controversial opinion than criticism really. Controversial, but if the offer was bigger, say 150, I'd consider selling him too.
He's just not so highly rated by some people, who then are called "haters". Doesn't sound fair.
 
Borys said:
Of course that's excessive, but that opinion is very rare and on the extreme end, there will always be someone who claims he's shite.
That's not important, the point is he is out of form, he's been scoring depsite having poor games (especially lat season) which is great. But he's been off form for a while and there's always an excuse for him. To me he doesn't look slow or something like he was getting back after injury, he's just in bad form. So I don't see why he should avoid criticism.
Rashford is actually a bit like United, a lot of goals scored last season, but we can hardly be happy with the performances level.

Well that's more of a controversial opinion than criticism really. Controversial, but if the offer was bigger, say 150, I'd consider selling him too.
He's just not so highly rated by some people, who then are called "haters". Doesn't sound fair.
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That’s exactly the point. He’s out of form. He is NOT a bad player, and he is getting name called and labelled a bad player, hence the more extreme sell him stuff from some - which is not right.

Marcus is a very good player, he’s a very important player for the future of this club and a patch of poor form (where he is still scoring) doesn’t change that, which is why I say he will continue to be a first name on the team sheet. That, and I’m confident RR will work wonders for him.
 
Borys said:
Of course that's excessive, but that opinion is very rare and on the extreme end, there will always be someone who claims he's shite.
That's not important, the point is he is out of form, he's been scoring depsite having poor games (especially lat season) which is great. But he's been off form for a while and there's always an excuse for him. To me he doesn't look slow or something like he was getting back after injury, he's just in bad form. So I don't see why he should avoid criticism.
Rashford is actually a bit like United, a lot of goals scored last season, but we can hardly be happy with the performances level.
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Yeah listen I’m happy to criticise any player, nobody is above criticism, it was the more extreme level posting that got my initial response, feels excessive from some sections.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Last season he and Bruno were the top of the shots and assist targets. He contributed 21 goal involvements to the success and progress we saw last season, playing injured. Why would you take that out of the team?
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I'm not saying I would, I'm saying why would he be a guanrateed name on a team sheet for years to come? I shouldn't really have to justify a view that he will be picked if he merits it. In football you're as good as the form you're in.

His goal involvements for a season do not entitle him to years of preferential treatment. They may mean he will be allowed some additional leeway when he hits bad form but that does not extend indefinitely otherwise a manager that runs a tight ship will not be able to retain credibility.
 
crossy1686 said:
Why don't we wait until Rashford is fully fit before we start writing players off again?
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No one should be writing him off but it’s funny how certain players always get excuses. I wish fans could be this rational for all of our players, not just their favourites.
 
Rashford plays as a left winger or a striker. Cavani will leave in summer, Ronaldo won't be around for too long, Martial does not represent a competition these days. So only Sancho is fighting with Rashford for that LW spot, though Sancho plays as a right winger as well. Rashford is frustrating at times on the pitch but think he's still in a good position.
 
Still don't think his fitness is fully there yet he seems to fade quite noticeably around the 60 min mark. Hopefully with Mason coming back into the picture he's become the 70 min sub for a few games. Do think his lack of work rate for the Palace game is being completely over blown though, in the 1st half he was pressing just as much as anyone. Definitely faded 2nd half just like Sancho but looks like he's got to do a whole lot more to shake the narrative.
 
I think what will help Rashford now is the fact that Rangnick clearly favours the 4-2-2-2 and with Cavani and Ronaldo likely to be both gone within 18-months, it makes sense for RR to try and coach Rashford to get the best out of him in that formation.

Personally, anybody who has read any of my posts on here will know what I think of Rashford, however, I am happy to have a mental amnesty now to a degree and judge each player on how they perform under proper coaching.

I consider Rashford's strengths to be pace, trickery, direct running and finishing.

I consider his weakness to be passing, hold-up/link-up play, decision-making, awareness and heading.

Therefore, if RR can retrain him as a direct, off-the-shoulder CF, he could have his uses. Problem is, how many teams will afford us space to run in-behind, especially at OT?
 
Plant0x84 said:
That’s exactly the point. He’s out of form. He is NOT a bad player, and he is getting name called and labelled a bad player, hence the more extreme sell him stuff from some - which is not right.

Marcus is a very good player, he’s a very important player for the future of this club and a patch of poor form (where he is still scoring) doesn’t change that, which is why I say he will continue to be a first name on the team sheet. That, and I’m confident RR will work wonders for him.
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The trouble is, despite the numbers, his game form has been bad for about three seasons now. It would be nice if he actually showed a bit of intelligence in his game play, which has been sadly lacking for quite a while.
 
A report I read earlier, said that Ralph was gonna mold him like he did with Timo Werner :wenger:

I really hope not, because Timo, technically wise is terrible.
 
Last year's injury was an excuse but let's give him time and judge him after he trains with Ralf for 3-6mths. He just doesn't know what to do with the ball but if Hudson-Odoi can improve that much under Tuchel, so can Rashford with Ralf.
 
He seems to lack the interest to develop his game. As someone mentioned previously, he seems to be pretty much the same player he was two or three years ago but having lost interest in putting in a shift. I think his increasingly peripheral involvement for country is a precursor to what will happen at club level

For me it comes down to how can it be justified to continue to limit Greenwood’s opportunities at game time because of Mr “leave him alone he’s injured/not fully fit/got a lot on his mind” when he does nothing to justify it
 
Nobody can defend how bad he is. Every game without fail he tries dribbling five players. Then when that fails he tries again five minutes later. Walks around with a face on him. Never been world class and never will be.
 
-Cant run without being offside or running into defenders
-Cant hold the ball or make the final pass
 
stw2022 said:
He seems to lack the interest to develop his game. As someone mentioned previously, he seems to be pretty much the same player he was two or three years ago but having lost interest in putting in a shift. I think his increasingly peripheral involvement for country is a precursor to what will happen at club level

For me it comes down to how can it be justified to continue to limit Greenwood’s opportunities at game time because of Mr “leave him alone he’s injured/not fully fit/got a lot on his mind” when he does nothing to justify it
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Completely agree on almost all points. Although I'd say he's gone backwards from 3 years ago. I don't remember him being so poor dribbling past players or getting a final ball in his earlier years. Maybe I'm misremembering, but these are areas where I think he's regressed massively.
 
You can clearly see the tactical role he’s earmarked for, we need someone to stretch the defence because Ronaldo’s weirdly given up on doing that, but he’s doing so many of the basics poorly it’s tragic. Definitely worried about his long-term future at this point, and in the short-term he’s really holding the team back.

I can understand why he’s distracted, he’s recognised he can influence things more important than football. But that influence will disappear quickly if he doesn’t refocus in the pitch. He’s obviously not happy on the pitch.
 
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klayton88 said:
Nobody can defend how bad he is. Every game without fail he tries dribbling five players. Then when that fails he tries again five minutes later. Walks around with a face on him. Never been world class and never will be.
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Dare I say, I can/do defend him…

He’s playing poorly, but he’s not a bad player, just in bad form imo.

“World class” I agree is debatable, but he is a top player and has shown that in the past and I believe he will show it again (I may well be wrong though…)
 
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