Is Smalling the best defender in the league?

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He's up there and probably the most versatile as he is huge and fast and can deal with big attackers as well as tricky and pacey ones.
 
Eckers99 said:
Having a bad 12 months doesn't make them shit defenders. That's just form isn't it? Or is Kompany no longer a top defender?
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When the original poster I was responding to specifically states the last 12 months I think it's very relevant to state he's had a shit 12 months, don't you?
 
dustfingers said:
I don't think its laughable. Just its too early to draw the comparison to say is he better. Vidic was lauded as the best in the league around 2008/09. If Smalling can maintain consistently good performance for a period of more than a year along with remaining fit, then the claim would be fair. As of now, too early to call.
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That's fair enough then as I can understand someone wanting him to do it for 2 seasons or so.
Getsme said:
There is a lot of tongue in cheek posts in here because the thread is far to premature but I'm sure you knew that already. Saying that, all other players are compared to club legends so it's only fair that he is as well, granted it has nothing to do with him being the best in the league at the moment but if clearly shows how big the gap is between him and players like Rio and Vidic.

My point about Kompany walking into our first 11 despite having a below is high standard season is to illustrate that despite his poor form (at times) he could easily still be regarded as the better defender last season, at times Smalling couldn't get into our starting 11 last season. Now after two games some are asking if he's the best in the league.

Who do I think was better out of Jones and Smalling over the last 12 months? Jones, but on current form I wouldn't drop Smalling. And yes, I'd have Kompany in the team over Smalling.
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Okay then.
 
Looking at the last two games, defensive wise he has probably performed better than the vast majority in the league so far. But it's still only two games so let's not lose the run of ourselves. His passing is pretty poor most of the time. If he defends the way he has been for the whole season and works on his passing then he definitely has the potential to be one of the best in the league.
 
Getsme said:
Off the top of my head you could argue that any of these players have had a better 12 months than Smalling, Laurent Koscielny, Jose Fonte, Vincent Kompany, Martin Skrtel, John Terry, Phil Jones, Gary Cahill, Toby Alderweireld, Ryan Shawcross.
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I actually think Skrtel had a decent season for Liverpool last season. So I don't disagree with you there. Smalling was/is clearly better than Jones though. Not sure why you put him in there.
 
Varun said:
That's fair enough then as I can understand someone wanting him to do it for 2 seasons or so.
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What makes you think he's risen enough to be the best defender in the league when he's not even regular in the English NT?
 
Clearly he is not, at this stage. But what is great is he is now firmly doing enough to be first choice. And that means he will get better. I do think we have a top player on our hands for many years.

I'm not quite so confident in Jones but he has the same potential underneath I think.
 
dustfingers said:
What makes you think he's risen enough to be the best defender in the league when he's not even regular in the English NT?
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I don't thi k he's the best defender in the league. I can't possibly choose b/w a system aided Terry, Koscielny and him. This opinion isn't based on whether or not he gets picked for England though, it's meaningless to me. Who are the 2 that get picked currently? Cahill and jagielka?
 
If you think this thread is extremely biased (which it is), it's as bad as what my Liverpool supporting mate said, who reckons Clyne is better than any United defender. He has him as his captain on fantasy football for feck sake.
 
Varun said:
I don't thi k he's the best defender in the league. I can't possibly choose b/w a system aided Terry, Koscielny and him. This opinion isn't based on whether or not he gets picked for England though, it's meaningless to me. Who are the 2 that get picked currently? Cahill and jagielka?
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Just my opinion, but playing well in EPL and not being selected as starter for national team means whether there is a serious flaw in our over-supporting of Mike or the england team selection and coaching staff is flawed. Both are equally likely, esp since we are at an age where Casillas is being picked continuously over De Gea for Spain.
 
dustfingers said:
Just my opinion, but playing well in EPL and not being selected as starter for national team means whether there is a serious flaw in our over-supporting of Mike or the england team selection and coaching staff is flawed. Both are equally likely, esp since we are at an age where Casillas is being picked continuously over De Gea for Spain.
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Can't argue with any of that. I do think it's the later though which should be clear this year if Smalling can stay fit.
 
dustfingers said:
Just my opinion, but playing well in EPL and not being selected as starter for national team means whether there is a serious flaw in our over-supporting of Mike or the england team selection and coaching staff is flawed. Both are equally likely, esp since we are at an age where Casillas is being picked continuously over De Gea for Spain.
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It's the latter imo. Carrick was constantly overlooked for England despite being a key player for us during our most successful spell in history.
 
ivaldo said:
When the original poster I was responding to specifically states the last 12 months I think it's very relevant to state he's had a shit 12 months, don't you?
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He's had a great 2 games though
ivaldo said:
When the original poster I was responding to specifically states the last 12 months I think it's very relevant to state he's had a shit 12 months, don't you?
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Fair enough. I'm looking at what's being said in context of the title. Which doesn't have the caveat of a set period of time.
 
ZDwyr said:
I actually think Skrtel had a decent season for Liverpool last season. So I don't disagree with you there. Smalling was/is clearly better than Jones though. Not sure why you put him in there.
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For me he is massively underrated on the Caf. It seems that every error he makes is highlighted on here to an extreme level, I believe that has clouded people's judgements.
 
Getsme said:
Great argument, do you intend to tell me why you think it's funny or are you going to do the usual thing on here and not back it up?
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I find it funny how you said this because in Smallings performance thread i asked you why you thought Smalling had a really long way to go before our ever being world class and I still have not been given my reason.
 
I always thought that terry and Cahill were overrated and it was really nemanja matic who was the engine and main man of the Chelsea defense. Yesterday further supported that because when nemanja wasn't doing well, the defense really wasn't doing well.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
I find it funny how you said this because in Smallings performance thread i asked you why you thought Smalling had a really long way to go before our ever being world class and I still have not been given my reason.
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Do you seriously think Smalling is Worldclass? Do you really need a reason?
 
Obiorahking_ said:
I always thought that terry and Cahill were overrated and it was really nemanja matic who was the engine and main man of the Chelsea defense. Yesterday further supported that because when nemanja wasn't doing well, the defense really wasn't doing well.
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Having a defensive midfielder certainly helps.
 
Getsme said:
Do you seriously think Smalling is Worldclass? Do you really need a reason?
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Funny, I never said he was.
I already stated that he needs:
-To keep his great performances up for a longer period of time(1-2) to disprove any notion that it is just a run of form
-To improve the consistency of his long range passing. Smalling has shown that he is capable of putting in some great long balls during pre season and last season, but we all know that the consistency could be much better.

This is not a long way to go at all for me...
 
Getsme said:
Having a defensive midfielder certainly helps.
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Agreed it does. However if Terry was still as great as he is, when your defensive midfielder isn't doing well, He should have shown that he could step it up.
 
Obiorahking_ said:
Funny, I never said he was.
I already stated that he needs:
-To keep his great performances up for a longer period of time(1-2) to disprove any notion that it is just a run of form
-To improve the consistency of his long range passing. Smalling has shown that he is capable of putting in some great long balls during pre season and last season, but we all know that the consistency could be much better.

This is not a long way to go at all for me...
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The main problem when describing a player as world class is the frequency in which it is used, the term is now so diluted that it has lost all its meaning. A world class player should be someone who is one of the best players in the world for their position, both past and present players should be used in comparrision before putting a player in that group. Beyond that is a small group of elite players such as Pele, Maradona, Best, Messi, Ronaldo(s) Cruyff etc

What many people tend do is label any player who is playing remotely well for a few games as world class. You see it all the time on TV, Joe average is considered World class because he’s played well for a few months. However, back in the real World, to be even considered a world class player, a player must be performing at that high level consistently for at least three of four seasons and have very few, if any flaws in their game.

Several players produce one or two top class seasons, its happened time and time again in the Premiership but only the best can replicate high level form on a year in year out basis. Harry Kane is a perfect example of that, can he be considered World Class because he has had one good season with Spurs? Not a chance, he has the potential to be but he still has it all to prove.
Smalling is a very good player, but when you look at the type of centre back who is or has been considered world class it’s pretty obvious that not only does he not belong in that bracket, but he has a long way to go to be even considered for it.
 
gza the genius said:
It's crazy to think that LVG was planning on starting Jones over him.
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Sometimes those within the game can see more than us, I believe this is the case with Jones. I Still don’t know why he is so underrated on here.
 
Getsme said:
Sometimes those within the game can see more than us, I believe this is the case with Jones. I Still don’t know why he is so underrated on here.
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He has no footballing brain at all, he's a headless chicken. He has all the physical tools but what good is that if his positioning is terrible and he's constantly injuring himself by going full speed in to challenges he has no business making.
 
gza the genius said:
It's crazy to think that LVG was planning on starting Jones over him.
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Can you quote him on these plans? If you're basing it on that preseason game then there was a good reason to have Smalling to secure the backline in the second half with so many young players.
 
charleysurf said:
Can you quote him on these plans? If you're basing it on that preseason game then there was a good reason to have Smalling to secure the backline in the second half with so many young players.
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He had been saying for a while during preseason that he had planned on using the same starting line-up that he had been using which included Jones in for Smalling. After the PSG game he then started to change his mind a bit stating that Blind and the two fullbacks would definitely be starting. Who knows what he would have actually done since the thrombosis forced his hand but he definitely had originally had Jones ahead of Smalling.
 
Too early to say. Kompany against us last season showed signs he could be back.

There are a few, way people talk about Stones you'd have to say he'd be one too.

Koscielny at Arsenal, Terry and Cahill, Kompany has started well and talks like he has hunger back etc.
 
Brwned said:
Absolute bollocks. People were full of praise for him last season.

Louis van Gaal said back in April: "Chris has improved and developed immensely during the short time that I have been at the club and has become an integral part of the first-team squad."
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Was anyone denying that? I have been saying for a while that he is our best CB by a distance, and that he has improved last season (especially his passing ability).

Brwned said:
At the same time a lot of people echoed his thoughts and commented on his huge improvement last season:
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If you read the quaotes, there is a single poster who is claiming that Smalling is the best in the league. The others are saying that he is our best CB (agree), has been good for us (agree), will establish himself as one of the best in England (agree), will establish imself as one of the best in Europe (currently disagree but stranger things have happened).

Brwned said:
He's better than Cahill's ever been.
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Cahill has been quite good since he made the Chelsea squad, although I was sceptical at that time. Smalling has been quite good for us for less that a year, and excellent in the last two games. Our defense last year was quite bad and very dependent on the keeper. Cahill is also ahead of him for the national team and has been so for many years (not that it matters that much, but just saying). Lets see if Smalling can be part of the best defense in the league for a year or two before we jump to the conclusions that he's the best in the league and better than Cahill has ever been.

At the moment, Smalling is a quite good CB who is finally looking to fullfill his potential, but no way anyone outside of United fans will claim that he is the best in the league. If he plays like this for an another year or two, then I guess most of rival fans would either agree with that claim, or argue that it might be the case. When most of people agree on something, you know that 'something' has some merit. When exclusively a set of fans say something that is disagreed by everyone else, that is called 'delusion'.
 
gza the genius said:
He has no footballing brain at all, he's a headless chicken. He has all the physical tools but what good is that if his positioning is terrible and he's constantly injuring himself by going full speed in to challenges he has no business making.
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So much wrong with this post.
I'm surprised the man can walk let alone play football all going by your description.
 
Getsme said:
Great argument, do you intend to tell me why you think it's funny or are you going to do the usual thing on here and not back it up?
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There is really no need for any argument if you think that the likes of Squirtel, Kompany, Jones, etc. had better seasons than Smalling. Your anti-Smalling agenda is already well known, so I'll try to laugh quietly in the corner from now on on your posts in this thread.
 
Getsme said:
So much wrong with this post.
I'm surprised the man can walk let alone play football all going by your description.
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I'm a little surprised he can walk as well to be honest.

So you think he's good positionally and doesn't have a habit of injuring himself by going full speed in to tackles that he shouldn't be making?
 
Agree that it will take another year or so before the rest of the world starts saying that Smalling is up there as the best in the league. He came on tremendously last season and being a United player, he is always going to first be judged harshly for any mistake (Red against City) and secondly held at a higher standard. His injuries and shifting around has not helped him as being seen as a top defender either. That though could change this season - he should hopefully have the benefit of a consistent back line rather than different players next to him each week - it will nullify the argument that he is crap because DDG was called to save us. It would not have mattered last year who was at the back when the system and the players were constantly changing and we had a midfield that offered little protection.

Also,I'd say is the argument that opposing fans don't rate one of our players as proof of him not being that good is a waste of time because opposing fans will fight tooth and nail to ever admit we have a damned good player on our hands.
 
Shimo said:
Agree that it will take another year or so before the rest of the world starts saying that Smalling is up there as the best in the league. He came on tremendously last season and being a United player, he is always going to first be judged harshly for any mistake (Red against City) and secondly held at a higher standard. His injuries and shifting around has not helped him as being seen as a top defender either. That though could change this season - he should hopefully have the benefit of a consistent back line rather than different players next to him each week - it will nullify the argument that he is crap because DDG was called to save us. It would not have mattered last year who was at the back when the system and the players were constantly changing and we had a midfield that offered little protection.

Also,I'd say is the argument that opposing fans don't rate one of our players as proof of him not being that good is a waste of time because opposing fans will fight tooth and nail to ever admit we have a damned good player on our hands.
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Look at all the players we had that had a legitimate claim as being the best in the league, and everyone rated them. Someone might have said that for example Rio isn't the best CB, but did anyone said that he isn't a top 3 CB in the league? Same for Vidic, Evra, VDS, De Gea, Rooney (when he was good), Scholes, Keano, RVN, Ronaldo.

At the contrary when only a set of fans rate a player (Rafael, Smalling, Kagawa etc), there might be something wrong there. It is either that the player still isn't right there (which I think is the case with Smalling) so the fans are naturally a bit overreacting, or they are just wrong (like we were with Evans for example).
 
If Smalling keeps playing at the level he showed vs Spurs and Villa then no one can deny he's had a very good season, not even opponent-fans.
 
Not necessarily the best CB but I think just in terms of defending he's right up there if not the best.
 
Amar__ said:
There is really no need for any argument if you think that the likes of Squirtel, Kompany, Jones, etc. had better seasons than Smalling. Your anti-Smalling agenda is already well known, so I'll try to laugh quietly in the corner from now on on your posts in this thread.
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Anti Smalling agenda, are you 10?
 
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