You have to question your own opinion when you are clearly in the minority though.
I mean his distribution is poor, but I can't for the life of me understand how someone can conclude he is 'average at best'. I find it genuinely shocking.
Is Smalling the best defender in the league?
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I mean his distribution is poor, but I can't for the life of me understand how someone can conclude he is 'average at best'. I find it genuinely shocking.
There really isn't a "best defender in the league" at the moment, well it certainly isn't Smalling but he is getting there, he just needs to consistently put on solid performances week in week out - far from the bambi that used to play for us that's for sure.
I've been saying that for a while now. Some awful threads/posts at the moment
Smalling has had a good few games this season and finished last season well. He's still injury prone and up until the back end of last season hadn't even looked like living upto his potential. He's now back on track and let's hope it continues but best defender in the league, give it a rest. I'd guess the OP was one of the many on here hoping Evans would be given the captains arm band last year!
Playing for a perfectionist like van Gaal is good for him as he is constantly challenged to improve on things like leadership, positioning, concentration, composure on the ball and passing. He is getting better all the time. To answer the question, not yet, but I will be disappointed if he doesn't become a contender this season, provided he is not disrupted by injury. He is after all younger than most of other top centre backs.
Was going to write the same. We are approaching rawkish levels of delusion on here.
My side of the argument, what is my side exactly?
It's incredible how obsessed this forum is with RAWK that we have underrate our own players and moderate what type of threads there are, so we can act all high and mighty in the e-forum politics.
The negative-leaning side, I would say. Or sceptical, for want of a better word.
Defensively, Smalling is one of the better defenders in the league and there is nothing delusional about that. Is he the best? That remains to be seen over an extended period of time, but I wouldn't be quick to swap him with anybody else at this point. That says a lot.
I'm on the negative leaning side? I advise you get your facts right before you decide what side I'm on.
I'm on the negative leaning side? I advise you get your facts right before you decide what side I'm on.
Ha. I'll change this up. It's fair to say that you're not as enamoured with Smalling as much as lots of others on here, no?
I think he's a very good player. However, I think the over exaggeration of his talents on here are slightly cringeworthy.
Put it this way, I have no fears when Smalling starts for us but I'd be more than happy to swap him for a player like Ramos.
This is so true. We try so hard to avoid being 'RAWK-ish' that we become overly negative. The title of the thread is a bit over the top/tabloid-esque, but the general point about how Smalling has pushed on very well since the red card in the City game and how he is undoubtedly one of the best defenders in the league is legitimate.
lol - been thinking that with the some of the comments. The thread is quite a legitimate discussion as Smalling probably is in the equation as one of the best defenders in the league. So what if the opposing fans don't rate him, his performances on the field for a good part of last season put him in the frame and this season he has started in the same mode. More than the first 2 games of the season but, also in preseason he was doing a a good job of solidifying the 2nd unit.
Maybe he isn't #1 defender but, can't think of any one I would straight swap him for that would make us better and that to me makes him one of the best in the league.
Nah, a bit of an overreaction to call him the best in the league overall. He was very good last season and will hopefully continue to perform well in our campaign this year, but he needs to continue consistently performing at a high level until he's what you'd consider the best in the league. For example, he's still a far way off what Vidic and Ferdinand both were when at their best for us, so if Smalling's the current best, then the standard has dropped massively.
I'd still opt for Terry and Kompany over him at the moment. Not always been a massive fan of Terry and have often found him to be overrated, but he was superb for Chelsea last year. I still wouldn't put it past him to find that form again this year, despite Chelsea's dreadful start. Kompany's looking excellent at the moment as well.
I'd still opt for Terry and Kompany over him at the moment. Not always been a massive fan of Terry and have often found him to be overrated, but he was superb for Chelsea last year. I still wouldn't put it past him to find that form again this year, despite Chelsea's dreadful start. Kompany's looking excellent at the moment as well.
It seems Smallings passing ability seems to be skewing people's views on him. Its a weakness much like Terrys lack of speed or Mascheranos lack of height, thankfully it's an weakness that can be eased with the right personnel and the right formation around him.
Some may disagree with the view that he is the best in the league and that's fine, but it's a little ridiculous to suggest it's an absurd opinion to have, the league is hardly littered with quality right now.
Some may disagree with the view that he is the best in the league and that's fine, but it's a little ridiculous to suggest it's an absurd opinion to have, the league is hardly littered with quality right now.
Koscielny makes a lot of mistakes for a supposed top defender. Also Smalling has had a very good 2015, won't stop the idiots here claiming that this thread made due to his last two performances.
It's not as though the PL (or the world for that matter) is bursting with great defenders. Apart from his skill on the ball, he ticks every other box as a defender. Not outrageous to say he is the best - he would be up there and it depends with form.
Smalling mispasses a lot of 10 yard passes straight into the opposition attacker as well. He needs to work on that better before being considered being the best defender in the league.
He's no way near being the best defender in the league. He has the physical attributes, whether he's the mental concentration and discipline over the course of the season can be decided on whether he makes the Team of Season this year or not.
If he's nowhere near the best defender in the league, surely there must be some that are way superior. Can you name these?
Well, I am not denying he had a great last six months or he's not of calibre to be the best here. But, judging a defender is always based on the system team plays. Arsenal played a little more defensively with mindset of holding onto the lead after Coquelin started for them and since then Koscielny had looked much better. Jagielka looked great in Moyes's Everton but under Martinez their defending has gone down the drain because of the over emphasis on attacking. Last season, Cahill, Terry, Koscielny were better than Smalling over the course of the season, which is not even enough of a time span to judge a defender to be considered best in the league.
Off the top of my head you could argue that any of these players have had a better 12 months than Smalling, Laurent Koscielny, Jose Fonte, Vincent Kompany, Martin Skrtel, John Terry, Phil Jones, Gary Cahill, Toby Alderweireld, Ryan Shawcross.
I certainly agree with Terry and Koscielny being better but as you rightly said, the system is a big help especially in terry's case. He is half the defender if they can't sit back with a deep line. It was blatantly obvious before Mourinho came in and funnily enough, had to be subbed yesterday too due to this very reason.
Even then, surely you agree the gap between these 2 and Smalling is nowhere close to being so big that the thread becomes laughable?
One can argue anything but it's crazy to argue some of the names you mentioned being better than Smalling. Kompany, skrtel, shawcross, Jones, etc.
I don't believe fonte or alderweireld are as good either but atleast it's not a crazy suggestion unlike the others.
lol
Great argument, do you intend to tell me why you think it's funny or are you going to do the usual thing on here and not back it up?
All the above players had good seasons, much like Smalling did.
No they didn't. Even the commentators have copped on to Kompany being poor for over a season now and they are generally the last to do so. Jones wasn't even close to being as good as Smalling. Skrtel is average. Shawcross is good but didn't have the season Smalling did.
Skirtel is average? fecking hell
Kompany had a bad season by his high standards yet still would have walked into our starting 11, Jones played the same amount of minutes as Smalling and played well dispite what you would believe if you read the Caf.
I don't think you can compare defenders that easly. LvG wants more contribution from his defenders than Martinez or Hughes wants.
Smalling is already great in defending, but he has a lot of work to do in the build-up.
Smalling is already great in defending, but he has a lot of work to do in the build-up.
See now that's ridiculous. Skrtel, Shawcross, Alderweireld in particular anf Kompany had a woeful 12 months.
Pure pish.
Skirtel is average? fecking hell
Kompany had a bad season by his standards but he still would have walked into our starting 11, Jones played the same amount of minutes as Smalling and played well when he was playing.
Yes, when compared to Smalling, he is.
I'm not going to debate whether or not Kompany would walk into our 11 as it has nothing to do with this thread. You either believe he was as good as Smalling or you don't. Whether or not he'd beat jones/rojo/mcnair /blackett/Evans to the starring 11 etc is pointless.
Jones was decent, not as good as Smalling though which again is what the thread is about. Either you agree he wasn't or you don't. Whether or not he was good, average, great or poor isn't for this thread. So you think he was as good as Smalling over the past year?
Someone brought Smalling not being as good as rio or vida in the thread and someone wanted to see how he did against Messi. Were you either of these people? I'm asking this because a simple thread is being dragged into all sorts of things which have nothing to do with it.
Smalling has been with us since 2011. That is more than enough time to know him as a player. I do not think he is the best defender in the league, and he is miles off being compared to the likes of Rio and even Vidic. But I do think he is the best at plain simple defending that we have seen at the club - better than Vidic as he is less likely to do something rash (it was slight weakness in Vidic's game due to being a little slower than the very best and a little more prone to take the aggressive action)
Smalling is clearly very fast and has over time gained experience which will hold him in good stead. He is going to be 26 in November, so we are yet to see his best years ahead, injuries permitting. Apart from his passing (which on occasions has actually been decent), I don't see much weakness in his defensive game because of his physical attributes and his intelligence ( I would say spending time away in school playing non-league football actually helps him). So we have every reason to be very optimistic but we are still too early in proclaiming him as the best defender in the league. But unless we have someone younger develop more quickly or have an import like Thiago Silva, he is very much in the reckoning in the near future. But at the same time I keep reminding myself that there was a time when I rated J.Evans more highly for his ability with the ball (he is still the best defender at the club with the ball at his feet, maybe we should play him midfield (just kidding))
So while this might seem premature, it is not too ridiculous and we should probably come back in 6 months time.
Smalling is clearly very fast and has over time gained experience which will hold him in good stead. He is going to be 26 in November, so we are yet to see his best years ahead, injuries permitting. Apart from his passing (which on occasions has actually been decent), I don't see much weakness in his defensive game because of his physical attributes and his intelligence ( I would say spending time away in school playing non-league football actually helps him). So we have every reason to be very optimistic but we are still too early in proclaiming him as the best defender in the league. But unless we have someone younger develop more quickly or have an import like Thiago Silva, he is very much in the reckoning in the near future. But at the same time I keep reminding myself that there was a time when I rated J.Evans more highly for his ability with the ball (he is still the best defender at the club with the ball at his feet, maybe we should play him midfield (just kidding))
So while this might seem premature, it is not too ridiculous and we should probably come back in 6 months time.
He's an extremely talented player. I felt that before Fergie retired, Smalling was coming along nicely and improving all the time. Under Moyes reign of terror, he stagnated and probably slightly regressed. Last season he found his confidence under LvG and his obvious talent started to show again. He has a manager that believes in him again and he is getting a good run in his actual position, being very impressive in the process. I just hope he has a settled partner for the season and LvG doesn't constantly rotate.
I don't really feel the need for a thread like this though. Why not start a thread about how he has really improved over the past season or so? Everything doesn't need to be hyperbole. He's certainly one of the best in the league based on his performances last season and the start of this, but calling him the best in the league based on that, is pretty premature. Just as a matter of interest, do opposition fans rate him? The consensus I get is that they think he's ok but nothing more.
I don't really feel the need for a thread like this though. Why not start a thread about how he has really improved over the past season or so? Everything doesn't need to be hyperbole. He's certainly one of the best in the league based on his performances last season and the start of this, but calling him the best in the league based on that, is pretty premature. Just as a matter of interest, do opposition fans rate him? The consensus I get is that they think he's ok but nothing more.
Kompany walking into our starting 11 has everything to do with this thread as it shows the level we need our CBs to reach before they can be considered the best in the Premiership.
It's debatable who out of Jones or Smalling had the better season, Smalling is rated higher in here and that's fine, but last season the manager thought Jones was the better player, and I can see why,
The thread is being dragged all over the place because the thread itself is a bit silly.
If you're going to make the point there are all these players who had a better 12 months as you put it, make sure those players actually had a better 12 months.
You clearly haven't understood the thread.
The thread is being dragged all over the place because somehow Smalling needs to prove himself against Messi to be the best CB in the league or has to be as good as rio or vida. It's simply stupid to put up bluntly.
For instance, responding to your post, Kompany would walk into our 11 if he was the 2nd best CB in the league. It says nothing about whether or not Smalling is the best.
Btw, let's leave van Gaal's opinion out of this as I'm asking yours. Who do YOU think has been better. Jones or Smalling?
Do YOU think Kompany has been as good or better than Smalling over the past year?
There is a lot of tongue in cheek posts in here because the thread is far to premature but I'm sure you knew that already. Saying that, all other players are compared to club legends so it's only fair that he is as well, granted it has nothing to do with him being the best in the league at the moment but if clearly shows how big the gap is between him and players like Rio and Vidic.
My point about Kompany walking into our first 11 despite having a below is high standard season is to illustrate that despite his poor form (at times) he could easily still be regarded as the better defender last season, at times Smalling couldn't get into our starting 11 last season. Now after two games some are asking if he's the best in the league.
Who do I think was better out of Jones and Smalling over the last 12 months? Jones, but on current form I wouldn't drop Smalling. And yes, I'd have Kompany in the team over Smalling.
Having a bad 12 months doesn't make them shit defenders. That's just form isn't it? Or is Kompany no longer a top defender?
I don't think its laughable. Just its too early to draw the comparison to say is he better. Vidic was lauded as the best in the league around 2008/09. If Smalling can maintain consistently good performance for a period of more than a year along with remaining fit, then the claim would be fair. As of now, too early to call.
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