Is Sancho a bust? And, is Antony headed the same way too?

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glasgow 21 said:
Example, the exact same attitude as to why De Bruyne and Salah didnt remain at Chelsea is on show here. If we are remain the leaders of promoting academy players etc we all need to take a chill pill.
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I'm sorry, but what does spunking out 160 odd million on two players got to do with our academy ?

glasgow 21 said:
In Ten Hag I trust, he wanted Antony and that's good enough for me.

I am glad the money was spent on him as it wouldn't have been available today anyhow as the glaziers would have kept it, like they are doing now will no winter signings.
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To the first point, ok fair enough if ten hag wanted him, but that doesn't mean he is the right fit, as we saw with many a player during AF tenure here with players he wanted and failed here (veron), to the second, they are not spending due to what was spent during the summer, and if they are true to their word of selling the club no one will buy us if we are hampered by FFP which we are sailing close to, as we have dropped down the money making list and even liverpool for the first time since money making was recorded back in the 90s overtook us in the recent report and given what it will cost to buy the club and something done about the stadium, they're not stupid enough to go there no matter what you think of the leeches.
 
I’ve seen players who hit the ground running and it stays that way
I’ve seen players who are slow starters but become amazing a year or two later
I’ve seen players who hit the ground running and then a year later (or even sooner than that) they look total garbage.

For Antony, I‘d say give him time and worry if he hasn’t progressed a year from now. He’s in a team that’s not the finished article, he himself is not the finished article and he did not set his price tag.

For Sancho, I don’t think we’ve ever had a player situation such as his (certainly not in the modern era) where it is publicly known that there are some ambiguous off-field problems. I will say he looked better under ETH based on pre-season than he had been for us before ETH, but it does seem like he can go a lot of a time in a game without doing too much, which has been a theme of his career here so far. The best case scenario is we’re trying to get him out of that Dortmund system playstyle and adapt to something more workable for United.
 
Revan said:
I don't get this. As disappointing as Antony has been, he has been miles better than Sancho. Kind of weird to see how much better has Sancho become during these months he didn't play. The Lucas Leiva syndrome when a player becomes better the less he plays.
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I think miles better is a bit of a stretch. I don't think there's been much between them this season, both have got a few goals and the general performances haven't been good even when those goals were came.
 
Lay said:
Maguire wasn’t at Leicester when they won the league
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Joined the season after, you are totally correct, and I'm an idiot haha, apologies. Somehow that just annoys me even more that we ended up with him, but thanks for the fact check. :wenger:
 
Kush said:
Before getting the pitchforks ready, hear me out.

Sancho was a marquee signing who was supposed to be the next superstar for not only us, but the Premier League. Being labelled as best player in the Bundesliga, and one of the (if not the) best young players in the world the expectations were high. It is fair to say, he flattered to deceive in his first season. Struggling to keep up with the pace and intensity of the Premier League. Most of us wrote off last season because of the big mess that was created by Ole/Rangnick. However, ten Hags arrival was supposed to spring Sancho into life, with a more modern and progressive method of football. Sancho has somehow got even worse in limited time he has got, being hooked at hour mark multiple times before picking up and injury, and then taking a lengthy break to gather himself mentally. Considering the high pressure stakes at basically ever game we play, do we see this break doing him good? Or taking into consideration his £72m fee, we can brand him a flop already?

Antony is more worrisome because he came off just one stellar season and in a relatively poor league compared to Bundesliga. He showed promise early on, but he has also struggled badly with the pace and intensity of the league. Recently being one of our worst performers at a time where team is in dire need of more productivity and quality. A bigger cause of concern with Antony is his failure to create space or chances from right side of the pitch, which we had been crying out for years. £86m record fee is no doubt weighing him down, but is he headed the same way as Sancho? Eager to hear thoughts from the rest.
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Can't disagree with any point mentioned here. In my opinion, the biggest area that our club needs to work on is getting the big money signings right. For the sum of money spent on both of them, they should be our starting wingers and producing week in week out.

Focusing on individuals, Sancho is pretty much in last chance saloon now. He's had a poor first season which has been pretty much excused, but under a new manager, he was expected to kick on. Even after his extended break, most fans are still backing him and it's about time that he repays the fans. How he responds when he comes back will decide his United future.

Due to lack of success in our signings, the fans are more forgiving and prone to giving time to new players especially a young one like Antony. Personally, his performances follow the same pattern as Sancho's from last season but are even less convincing . He doesn't even attempt take-ons, is painfully and predicably one footed and mostly passes backwards. My part-time footballer watcher wife actually asked me if he's "another Pogba", which perfectly describes how I feel about him.

Given AWB's last couple of performances, I believe Ten Hag can produce the best out of anyone so I'm not giving up on either Antony or Sancho. But I'm not very optimistic either.
 
I think you need to put the money spent on them to one side and ask yourself if they're doing what they were brought in for and expected to do - the answer to that is no. Both were doing it in another league, both international players playing for England and Brazil respectively, playing for one of the biggest clubs in their league so used to pressure. So age shouldn't be much of a excuse given what I just said.

That being said - perhaps the pressure of the money being spent on them and what is now expected of them, with that added pressure, might be too much to handle.

I hope they come good and still got my support - 100%. Sancho is obviously dealing with something that has affected his performance, and Antony is new to the league / country etc. Give them both time and hopefully we'll be seeing their full potential this second half or next season.
 
Sancho clearly struggled with things off the pitch. If I'm not mistaken, so have Antony. Expectations and price tags doesn't make it easier for these young players.
Ten Hag clearly improves players.
We need to trust the coaching staff and be patient.
 
Both flops so far but that can change and it’s early days. Plenty of other players have had slow starts so hopefully they improve.

However I do wonder how much persistence and patience ETH will have with Sancho. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Sancho back at Dortmund next season especially if rest of the season doesn’t go very well.
 
Both are nowhere near Martial level on his first season, and Martial is a flop.
 
Roboc7 said:
Both flops so far but that can change and it’s early days. Plenty of other players have had slow starts so hopefully they improve.

However I do wonder how much persistence and patience ETH will have with Sancho. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Sancho back at Dortmund next season especially if rest of the season doesn’t go very well.
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Are you thinking perhaps Sancho will go there and Bellingham will come to Utd?
 
We’ve no idea really. Antony hasn’t been all bad. He’s immediately looked confident in a new league. Just needs to sharpen up.

Sancho is an unknown entity at the moment.

We did overpay though.
 
No and no.

Sancho has some personal issues I think and Antony is in his first season and already has a decent scoring record.
 
Lentwood said:
I actually worry less about Anthony. He's a young lad, still adapting to the Premier League and he has the raw pace, aggression, trickery and confidence to become a top player with the right guidance.
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Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Antony doesn't seem like he has any actual skills or tricks which for a winger without pace is a concern.
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Going through this thread, it's clear there's major disagreement about Antony, half seem to think he's slow, the other half seem convinced he's got raw pace.

Neither has really performed at the level they should do, but I have hope for them both. I was encouraged to see Bruno having a go at Antony at Palace for being too slow on the ball and holding up a counter attack. Hopefully he learns from it.

Sancho, I just don't know what's wrong. We waited so long for him and all want it to work. Hopefully it clicks now he's back.
 
foolsgold said:
Going through this thread, it's clear there's major disagreement about Antony, half seem to think he's slow, the other half seem convinced he's got raw pace.

Neither has really performed at the level they should do, but I have hope for them both. I was encouraged to see Bruno having a go at Antony at Palace for being too slow on the ball and holding up a counter attack. Hopefully he learns from it.

Sancho, I just don't know what's wrong. We waited so long for him and all want it to work. Hopefully it clicks now he's back.
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Sancho definitely doesn't have any acceleration and pace doesn't seem too high either.
But Antony is fast enough isn't he? Unless you compare him to an Olympian!
 
Champ said:
In his first season in a new league, he's averaging a goal roughly ever 200 or so minutes.
I'd take that personally. I'd also bite your hand off for that output from Sancho for the rest of the season.
In comparison Bernardo Silva lags behind Antony, as does Grealish whom combined have 5 goals in way more minutes.
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Ok. This is a classic example of why you shouldn’t just use stats to prove points
You’re suggesting Antony over Bernardo Silva ?
Behave
 
Sancho is obviously a bust so far, but it doesn't mean he will always be. You can't be purchased for his price tag, get his salary, underwhelm on the field, take half a season off, and be considered anything else. If he lights up the league from here on out, then he'll be considered otherwise.
 
SirScholes said:
Ok. This is a classic example of why you shouldn’t just use stats to prove points
You’re suggesting Antony over Bernardo Silva ?
Behave
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Is that what I said? I don't think so.

I was pointing out that Antony, a young player in a new league, at a new club, in a new country has outscored a seasoned premiership player, yet people are claiming he's a flop already.

Behave indeed.
 
Looking at how Shaw, Rashford and AWB have come back this season under ETH, it’s pointless to write anyone in this squad off, especially two footballers as talented as Antony and Sancho.
 
OrcaFat said:
Anthony has shown spectacular talent as well.
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I haven't seen any spectacular talent from him in United shirt. Sancho, meanwhile, showed glimpses of great talent. Sancho's main issue for me was that he couldn't influence the game for the full 90 minutes. He fades away from most of the match but then shows up with a banger of a goal or assist. Antony meanwhile doesn't do anything any other player will just do in his position and probably even better.
 
el3mel said:
I haven't seen any spectacular talent from him in United shirt. Sancho, meanwhile, showed glimpses of great talent. Sancho's main issue for me was that he couldn't influence the game for the full 90 minutes. He fades away from most of the match but then shows up with a banger of a goal or assist. Antony meanwhile doesn't do anything any other player will just do in his position and probably even better.
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If you didn’t see it, I’m surprised. I saw him score some great goals and at times loads of skill. The main thing he has shown is raw talent and decent passion. He just hasn’t learnt how to channel it all yet.

Sancho is further on in his development but has the same problem. He’s shown some talent but has mostly been disappointing.

It probably looks like blind faith to some people but I think they’ll both come good. If I have to say which will do better in the long term, I think Anthony, but I’m rooting for both of them.
 
Champ said:
Is that what I said? I don't think so.

I was pointing out that Antony, a young player in a new league, at a new club, in a new country has outscored a seasoned premiership player, yet people are claiming he's a flop already.

Behave indeed.
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Never said he was a flop just that you’re using stats to give the impression he’s lifting trees

Ronaldo was our top goal scorer last year but we all knew it was a detriment to the team
Tammy Abraham scored more than Osimhen last year does this mean hes better ?
Silva brings way way more to the team, I’d happily swap Antony’s goals for Silvas all round game, we’d create more and hence score more
 
I think Sancho can turn it around, but Antony was never going to justify his transfer fee and his purchase was always going to come with a massive opportunity cost that would hurt us badly. He’s been massively underwhelming and I don’t see how any amount of coaching can overcome the fact that he has no right foot.
 
TMDaines said:
I think Sancho can turn it around, but Antony was never going to justify his transfer fee and his purchase was always going to come with a massive opportunity cost that would hurt us badly. He’s been massively underwhelming and I don’t see how any amount of coaching can overcome the fact that he has no right foot.
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He is very one footed but that didn’t stop some of the best ever players. I don’t think he will improve his right foot all that much but I think he will use it more as he develops the rest of his game.
 
Sancho looks very decent in the video. I thought he was lazy on tracking back, but with the right mindset he will be good enough.
 
The overreactions on here… wow. Who remembers When Mahrez went to City he barely played for a whole season? Also Grealish isn’t pulling up trees either Brit their fans give them time..
 
Both players have immense technical ability, really world class. But they both lack real pace and acceleration which is a real issue. Both would benefit to play with a pacy overlapping RB and a pacy mobile striker. We lack both and this makes them less efficient. I think Sancho will be first choice RW soon if he can improve his defensive game. He is the better player.
 
Flexdegea said:
The spin really fecked a lot of people of it would seem, it's defo tainted opinions a bit :lol:
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I enjoyed the spin. Those is the studio being furious about him wasting time when we needed a goal !

At this time some of our centre backs and midfield were taking longer to take and make a 10 yard pass.
 
croadyman said:
He will be worried Antony's not performing to a high enough level
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The only weakness in Antony's game is that he doesn't go past people and cross with his right foot. Or indeed use his right foot.

I'm sure he can learn this. He has everything else. Hard work. A bit of an attitude and some mad skills.

It's the right foot thing that does everyone's head in.

Gigs didn't have a right foot.
 
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Stig said:
The only weakness in Antony's game is that he does go past people and cross with his right foot. Or indeed use his right foot.

I'm sure he can learn this. He has everything else. Hard work. A bit of an attitude and some mad skills.

It's the right foot thing that does everyone's head in.

Gigs didn't have a right foot.
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Nobody was mad enough to play Giggs on the right! (Although I think he did play on the right in 99).
 
Sancho will be fine. He's got plenty of ability, just haven't been playing at the right intensity. A bit like Shaw before.

Don't see it in Antony at all on the other hand. Pretty one dimensional, yet struggles to go past a man. Looks like a dud.
 
Sanch is a much better player than Antony in my opinion. Both have time on their side I just feel more hope for Sancho.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Sanch is a much better player than Antony in my opinion. Both have time on their side I just feel more hope for Sancho.
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Yeah I feel a confident Sancho could maybe find that Dortmund form under Erik but not straight away
 
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