Is RedCafe too harsh on flair players?

Well hes not a flair player Sancho is a flair player, instead of pace they use their silky technique and intelligence to take the opposition out of the game and Antony lacks in both pace and technique hes a rigidly one footed defensive winger with a decent if predictable shot.

Who knows how he is going to adapt in a years time (and i agree its too soon) but don't confuse how he is playing with his limitations as a player this stuff isn't criticism its objective reality, especially when price tags set expectations.

Edit: Also what you think is "disgraceful" is almost entirely immaterial this is a fan forum if people weren't allowed to express themselves the whole thing would be pointless its not like we are breaking down these traditional barriers of communication to go shit on his social media doorstep is it.
 
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I generally agree with the sentiment of this thread. Flair players like Ronaldo and Nani have been horribly disliked by our fanbase for being skilful at times.

That said I’ve yet to see criticism of Bruno for being ‘flashy’

Is redcafe too harsh? I’d say so....I’ve just had a weeks ban from the mods for saying Bruno hasn’t been great for the last two years.
 
Reditus said:
Yup. This place is crazy

bruno Fernandes is basically the heartbeat of the club for about 3 years and apart from McTominay and Maguire probably gets the most critisism
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That’s because Bruno makes so many mis-hit passes. He’s a high risk, high reward player. I think he does try a Hollywood pass more than is necessary, which leads to us losing possession. He also tends to be in a rush to counter when it’s not necessary to boot it 30 yards and potentially mid-hit the pass. That would be my biggest criticism of Bruno.
 
To be honest the forum is just overly negative about everything and calls it “having standards” as if slagging a player off every time they aren’t amazing every match is a service they provide to the club.

Bloody hell people where slagging ten hag off in Man City thread when we were 1-0 down, this team would have been fully justified losing to Man City in reality yet you would think it was prime 1999 man United losing to grimsby town.

Honestly just entitlement at this point, Fergie has gone we have had a shit decade nearly, holding “standards” as a fan does nothing but breed negativity.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Is redcafe too harsh? I’d say so....I’ve just had a weeks ban from the mods for saying Bruno hasn’t been great for the last two years.
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@mods he’s said it again.
 
Antony is not at all a flair player.

Also we seem to be rewriting history about Nani. Redcafe loved his flair when he was playing well, there were threads about how fans loved it.

When he started playing poorly and constantly attempted flair which did not work and he ruined attacks because of it, then fans turned against it. This was only at the end of his time at United though.
 
Hammondo said:
Antony is not at all a flair player.

Also we seem to be rewriting history about Nani. Redcafe loved his flair when he was playing well, there were threads about how fans loved it.

When he started playing poorly and constantly attempted flair which did not work and he ruined attacks because of it, then fans turned against it. This was only at the end of his time at United though.
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nani got a hard time throughout
 
Bruno Fernandes. A flair player?
 
We were spoilt by fergie's reign. If we used to stick it to the likes of Giggsy, Nani, Ronnie and Rooney then what chance do the likes to Antony, Sancho etc. have?

It's best to take it like water off a duck's back.
 
Is Antony a flair player? He mostly just runs up the wing, doesn't take anyone on and tries that shot with his left foot. I'm not sure there's a lot of flair there, but I do think he needs time and could come good.

Looking at how Rashford played for so long, I was certain he would never recover and had lost whatever he had. But here we are when he's having another good patch for us. Possibly his best ever!
 
Reditus said:
Yup. This place is crazy

bruno Fernandes is basically the heartbeat of the club for about 3 years and apart from McTominay and Maguire probably gets the most critisism
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The criticism of Bruno can be extremely harsh. Other times it’s not harsh enough. I say that because when he is off form he is passing the ball out of play and moaning to his team mates. He deserves to be savaged for that. He is an absolute prick. On the flip side, at his best there’s some fans that don’t deserve him.

Red00012 said:
There was a poster in the match thread writing off Weghorst after 27 mins into his debut
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This will be a fairly common occurrence. The guy is pretty shite tbf. He might get a few goals but he is what he is, a stop gap. Ighalo mk II. He won’t be staying regardless. So most fans will never warm to him.
 
Redcafe has become a hot bed of awful takes in general, you only have to look at the Rashford sale poll. 80 percent wanted to sell a homegrown player who had two 20 goals seasons after a year where the whole team was rubbish. Bruno gets dog's abuse on here and he has 100 goal involvements in 150 games and is our captain ffs. Too much mirroring of social media talking heads and memeing players.

That said - someone like Nani also got a lot of frustration in the old days. I think that was partly because his talent was obvious but wildly inconsistent. On the other hand Antony looks extremely one footed and unable to beat his man.
 
Antony isn’t even close to being a flair player. If he wasn’t Brazilian he wouldn’t even be mentioned.
 
Let me leave it to this. If there is one crowd critical of players it's the Ajax crowd. Even Zlatan was considered pants in his first season but even we had more patience with Antony in his first few matches and the 20 million price tags can be considered as equal to the 80 million one since we can't splash out that kind of cash on one player.
 
Hammondo said:
Antony is not at all a flair player.

Also we seem to be rewriting history about Nani. Redcafe loved his flair when he was playing well, there were threads about how fans loved it.

When he started playing poorly and constantly attempted flair which did not work and he ruined attacks because of it, then fans turned against it. This was only at the end of his time at United though.
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That’s not true, he was constantly abused from his first season here, it was only in his third season where he became a bit more accepted, when he started to show consistency. Before that the patience was non existent.
To answer the OP, United fans in general, not just redcafe, are harshest on our best players but if they do show flare, it’s amplified even more.
 
NewDawnFades said:
nani got a hard time throughout
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There were threads on here with his clips where people were praising him, at the time he was one of our most praised players. Only at the end did things quickly change against him.
 
OL29 said:
That’s not true, he was constantly abused from his first season here, it was only in his third season where he became a bit more accepted, when he started to show consistency. Before that the patience was non existent.
To answer the OP, United fans in general, not just redcafe, are harshest on our best players but if they do show flare, it’s amplified even more.
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Not sure about that. Like most new signings the vast majority of fans were slow to criticise him during his first season. Which was obviously helped by him scoring an absolute screamer against Spurs very early on in his United career. It was when he suffered a bad case of second season syndrome that the knives came out.
 
Are we supposed to sugarcoat his terrible performances and non existent right foot? Our right side of the pitch is completely dead and he is a big reason why, he is a dream player to defend against for any fullback in the league. I know he is our shiny £85m toy but we have to be honest.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Not sure about that. Like most new signings the vast majority of fans were slow to criticise him during his first season. Which was obviously helped by him scoring an absolute screamer against Spurs very early on in his United career. It was when he suffered a bad case of second season syndrome that the knives came out.
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That’s not how I remember it, I think people took issue with his theatrics and so went ott with criticism of his performances. It took years before he was accepted.
 
OL29 said:
That’s not how I remember it, I think people took issue with his theatrics and so went ott with criticism of his performances. It took years before he was accepted.
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It was his "frustrating passing" where when he would give the ball away it would more often be a fairly simple pass where he lost concentration. People would say he was a bad passer, but then he'd pick a teammate out with a great pass or cross where its harder to miss than score.
 
Ekeke said:
It was his "frustrating passing" where when he would give the ball away it would more often be a fairly simple pass where he lost concentration. People would say he was a bad passer, but then he'd pick a teammate out with a great pass or cross where its harder to miss than score.
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Yeah that’s all natural for a young player though especially in his first season in the premier league.
 
Players that get the most abuse on here are Maguire, Mctominay and Wan Bissaka.

With those three the hatred was irrational, vile and obsessive. Other than that, this forum is perfectly fine. Of course match day threads shouldn't be taken particularly seriously as it's in the heat of the moment but the performance threads usually have sound opinions. The issue is there are many fans on here that have their heads in the sand and prefer the see no evil approach.

I've been on the caf for sometime now and its absolutely better now. Before you had a large share trying to prove they were top R's, nowadays posters for the most part just post what their eyes show them. The volume on here is more so more horrible posters slip through the cracks but they are a minority.
 
Not sure it has anything to do with flair. As soon as a narrative is set either by the media or the mood on here after a certain game, you get a large quantity of posters on here who just tag along with it and then refuse to budge.

I'm convinced a lot of people either don't watch the games or do but while not even paying attention, and then just borrow their opinions from equally lazy pundits or ultimately from each other.

Bissaka is another good example and I wouldn't exactly call him a flair player.

I remember back when we were winning things, if one of our players improved or dropped in performance noticeably, it would usually take about 6 months before the caf would actually recognise it. Now because we're so up and down and inconsistent anyway, the same people are just always wrong.

hobbers said:
Antony apparently lacks the cajones to try anything with flair. Or use his right foot.

Bruno's flair consists of flicking the ball to the other team 20 times a game. He's become a parody of himself.
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Meanwhile in the real world we'd have lost our last two games and be back in a top 4 slog if it wasn't for the contribution of Bruno Fernandes.

Antony can be frustrating but he's pretty decent for a 22 year old who only moved to the country 6 months ago. He also works extremely hard. I mean if you compare him to when we were using James or Lingard, or wasting/ruining Rashford on the right, it's actually pretty obvious why we forked out the money.
 
Jeppers7 said:
I generally agree with the sentiment of this thread. Flair players like Ronaldo and Nani have been horribly disliked by our fanbase for being skilful at times.

That said I’ve yet to see criticism of Bruno for being ‘flashy’

Is redcafe too harsh? I’d say so....I’ve just had a weeks ban from the mods for saying Bruno hasn’t been great for the last two years.
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Not sure this is true. I’d define daft pointless backheels at every opportunity as flashy, and he rightfully gets slagged off for that every match day. That and just totally flashy pass selections instead of the easy ball, equally guilty of that too.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Antony's arguably the most unimaginative wide attacker I've seen at the club.
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Is it your first season watching United? And perhaps you've only seen 3 or 4 games this season?
Even then I'm not sure you'd be accurate.
 
Newtonius said:
Well hes not a flair player Sancho is a flair player, instead of pace they use their silky technique and intelligence to take the opposition out of the game and Antony lacks in both pace and technique hes a rigidly one footed defensive winger with a decent if predictable shot.

Who knows how he is going to adapt in a years time (and i agree its too soon) but don't confuse how he is playing with his limitations as a player this stuff isn't criticism its objective reality, especially when price tags set expectations.

Edit: Also what you think is "disgraceful" is almost entirely immaterial this is a fan forum if people weren't allowed to express themselves the whole thing would be pointless its not like we are breaking down these traditional barriers of communication to go shit on his social media doorstep is it.
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Not sure he does?

And Sancho has shown LOADS of flair so far for us hasn't he :lol:
 
Jeppers7 said:
I generally agree with the sentiment of this thread. Flair players like Ronaldo and Nani have been horribly disliked by our fanbase for being skilful at times.

That said I’ve yet to see criticism of Bruno for being ‘flashy’

Is redcafe too harsh? I’d say so....I’ve just had a weeks ban from the mods for saying Bruno hasn’t been great for the last two years.
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We don’t talk about Bruno no no no….
 
wolvored said:
I was a carpenter years ago and had to saw, nail and screw with my right (I was left handed) a lot of time. Over time I was good with either hand. Its only practice and if I was a pro footballer I would certainly have practiced with both feet.
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I was a carpenter too. My boss used to call me 'lightning' every time I picked up a hammer. I asked him if it was because I was really fast? He said 'nah, its cos you never strike the same place twice'.

*gets toolbag*
 
Players that have a responsibility to create are always divisive. It’s low risk/low reward or high risk/high reward, and to become ‘elite’ you have to break that mould. I think most expected Antony to be the stereotypical tricky winger that would blow hot and cold, and it’s jarring that he’s looking more like a defensive winger.

Recent memories of very one footed players like Valencia (after his downturn in form) and AWB on the right aren’t doing him favours. Likewise with the failure of expensive signings like Sancho and Maguire.
 
scottser said:
I was a carpenter too. My boss used to call me 'lightning' every time I picked up a hammer. I asked him if it was because I was really fast? He said 'nah, its cos you never strike the same place twice'.

*gets toolbag*
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:lol: like it
 
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