Is Rashford better than the likes of Saint Maximin?

BerryBerryShrew said:
1. He's been in "bad form" for around two successive years now. I don't think fans are impatient for losing hope.
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If literally any other player in the league (or world frankly) had been in such "bad form" for past two years that they had only got 32 goals & 21 assists despite playing clearly injured for half the time we'd be saying how great they are.

Heck he's being compared to Saint-Maximin ffs, very talented player btw, who has barely beaten that throughout his whole career so far.
 
antohan said:
Wow, good thing I don't spend too much time checking in. Can't believe this thread even exists.
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To be fair, ASM has offered more than Rashford for over a year now. ASM has improved just as much as Rashford has regressed. How long does a player remain "out of form". Rashford's been poor for a couple of years now.
 
I'd be interested to see how Rashford plays once his epxlosiveness deserts him entirely
 
Chief123 said:
To be fair, ASM has offered more than Rashford for over a year now. ASM has improved just as much as Rashford has regressed. How long does a player remain "out of form". Rashford's been poor for a couple of years now.
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Not knocking Saint-Maximin, good player, I like him, but that's his level both in club tier and ceiling.

Lots of time-inflation in how situations are appraised.
  • Two seasons ago we were playing largely as a counter-attacking side, right up his street.
  • Last season we ran him into the ground when he was evidently injured. Even then, only Bruno earned us more points with his contributions. I ran that a few months ago, two points for goal/assist of winning goal, one for draw, adjusted for playing time it was 1. Bruno, 2. Rashford, 3. Pogba, 4. Cavani.
  • Amid injuries and, we now hear, personal life issues we did start seeing him a bit off and running into blind alleys.
  • This season, coming back from injury, having lost his footing in the England setup and just called upon for penos, with the team in disarray, he has been a bit crap.
  • Shit happens, take a chill pill. He'll be back, he is significantly more talented than fecking Adama Traore and Allan Saint-Maximin.
 
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JB7 said:
If literally any other player in the league (or world frankly) had been in such "bad form" for past two years that they had only got 32 goals & 21 assists despite playing clearly injured for half the time we'd be saying how great they are.

Heck he's being compared to Saint-Maximin ffs, very talented player btw, who has barely beaten that throughout his whole career so far.
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Meanwhile he’s being compared to players who get like 5 assists and 2 goals. Bad form or not, without rashford we would not have made top 4.
 
Thought he was good for the first half of last season so I don't buy into this constant narrative he's been shite for two years. Certainly he's up and down and needs to add more to his game but I'm prepared to see after the surgery and getting back sharp with the whole team not in a slump.
 
On current form there isn't a lot in it but peak Rashford was great. Hes just not peak Rashford currently yet his wages suggest that he is :lol:
 
roonster09 said:
Talks about winger/wing forward and calls him rubbish striker, and this is the problem with Anit-Rashford club.
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Do you even read?

My point was exactly that. He's not a good enough striker for people to focus so much on his goals and he doesn't warrant a starting place (even a sub) in the position.

Since he is predominantly a wing player, he needs to show he can be creative and contribute to the build-up.

All this talk about goals is pointless if he is to start a game in a position where Martial would be better right now.

And talking about stats is great but he's barely got an assist this year. I am not a 'hater' (pathetic term which instantly shows me lack of desire to use your brain by anyone using it btw), I am frustrated he's had no development in 2 years and somehow he's seen as a messiah and the new face of United.
 
Rashford is and will always be better than these types of players. Just solely down to the fact that he produces top quality numbers. Having the innate ability to put up high level G/A’s just can’t be taught (well I mean it obviously kinda can but you either have it or you don’t, is what I’m trying to say). Maximin has never scored more than 6 goals in a season. I’d be extremely surprised if he gets a single season where he gets 10+.
 
Chief123 said:
To be fair, ASM has offered more than Rashford for over a year now. ASM has improved just as much as Rashford has regressed. How long does a player remain "out of form". Rashford's been poor for a couple of years now.
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So why isn't Barca or Bayern going for him?
 
Rightnr said:
Do you even read?

My point was exactly that. He's not a good enough striker for people to focus so much on his goals and he doesn't warrant a starting place (even a sub) in the position.

Since he is predominantly a wing player, he needs to show he can be creative and contribute to the build-up.

All this talk about goals is pointless if he is to start a game in a position where Martial would be better right now.

And talking about stats is great but he's barely got an assist this year. I am not a 'hater' (pathetic term which instantly shows me lack of desire to use your brain by anyone using it btw), I am frustrated he's had no development in 2 years and somehow he's seen as a messiah and the new face of United.
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Only strikers are judged on goals? What are wide forwards supposed to do? Go to byline and whip in crosses? Shame they didn't know that and scored goals.

Actually it's pathetic that you had to come up with 'Rashford defense force' nonsene. Maybe if you had brain you wouldn't have done that but yeah, that's how it is.
 
Of course he is. Yes, Rashford sometimes comes across as a kick and run merchant when he tries to believe a bit too much in his close control and dribbling, but let's not forget his great qualities as well - he is rapid, has a good solid physique, the power in his shots is excellent, he is unpredictable and most importantly - he has end product. I mean, for all of the flashiness of someone like Saint Maximin who has better close control than Rashford, he is incomparable when it comes to everything else. When has the latter scored 23 goals in a season, or feck that, become an important player for a top 4 club? He does a nice dribble at one of the worst teams in England and its a big deal because its one of the worst teams in England.

And I'm not even one of those who rates Rashford super highly. But comparing him to the likes of Maximim, Traore or even Zaha is pointless. He's better than them and more accomplished.
 
I'd possible understand this thread of Saint Maximin was some 18/19 year old prodigy and has a brighter career ahead of him than Rashford, but the bloke is 24 himself. Him and Traore are so overhyped.
 
antohan said:
Not knocking Saint-Maximin, good player, I like him, but that's his level both in club tier and ceiling.

Lots of time-inflation in how situations are appraised.
  • Two seasons ago we were playing largely as a counter-attacking side, right up his street.
  • Last season we ran him into the ground when he was evidently injured. Even then, only Bruno earned us more points with his contributions. I ran that a few months ago, two points for goal/assist of winning goal, one for draw, adjusted for playing time it was 1. Bruno, 2. Rashford, 3. Pogba, 4. Cavani.
  • Amid injuries and, we now hear, personal life issues we did start seeing him a bit off and running into blind alleys.
  • This season, coming back from injury, having lost his footing in the England setup and just called upon for penos, with the team in disarray, he has been a bit crap.
  • Shit happens, take a chill pill. He'll be back, he is significantly more talented than fecking Adama Traore and Allan Saint-Maximin.
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Bang on

Fans have short memories, Rashford was in good form for first part of last season - the big mistake was playing while injured and going to the Euros half fit, he's only now starting to recover from that surgery but I have no doubt that once he's back to full fitness he will remind everyone just how good he is
 
antohan said:
Not knocking Saint-Maximin, good player, I like him, but that's his level both in club tier and ceiling.

Lots of time-inflation in how situations are appraised.
  • Two seasons ago we were playing largely as a counter-attacking side, right up his street.
  • Last season we ran him into the ground when he was evidently injured. Even then, only Bruno earned us more points with his contributions. I ran that a few months ago, two points for goal/assist of winning goal, one for draw, adjusted for playing time it was 1. Bruno, 2. Rashford, 3. Pogba, 4. Cavani.
  • Amid injuries and, we now hear, personal life issues we did start seeing him a bit off and running into blind alleys.
  • This season, coming back from injury, having lost his footing in the England setup and just called upon for penos, with the team in disarray, he has been a bit crap.
  • Shit happens, take a chill pill. He'll be back, he is significantly more talented than fecking Adama Traore and Allan Saint-Maximin.
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A little harsh concerning ASM's ceiling and club tier but I gotta agree with the rest
 
pcaming said:
Meanwhile he’s being compared to players who get like 5 assists and 2 goals. Bad form or not, without rashford we would not have made top 4.
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Very lazy comparison. ASM plays for a team who are dog shite and create nothing virtually every game unless he does something. Rashford plays in a team which creates considerably more opportunities than ASM's team.

Not saying ASM is a better player, but Rashford has been playing poorly for far too long to put it down to just poor form. Some players sadly regress rather than progress in their careers. I hope I'm wrong, but I've not seen anything from Rashford recently to suggest things are changing.
 
kouroux said:
A little harsh concerning ASM's ceiling and club tier but I gotta agree with the rest
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A tad harsh indeed, he is better than Newcastle and at 24 can still improve, let alone in better company.

But he is not world class/top club material, just the sort of valuable midtable club forward who can be a right handful on his day. Doesn't belong anywhere near a comparison with Rashford.
 
Chief123 said:
The same reasons bayern or barca aren't going for Rashford? Both not good enough?
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Nah, Rashford was linked plenty before. His ceiling is 10 times higher. Fair enough if you think ASM is a little better now, I'm just not seeing what some of you are, same with Traore. They are easy on the eyes, but you act like they are a tier below the Manes with the right coaching.
 
Absolute nonsense being chatted in here. Rashford is in a different league to Saint Maximin. Even playing with no confidence and no form he does better.

So reactionary this fanbase. Already got people saying Elanga is better ffs after 2 games. Worse than Arsenal fans some of our lot.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Nah, Rashford was linked plenty before. His ceiling is 10 times higher. Fair enough if you think ASM is a little better now, I'm just not seeing what some of you are, same with Traore. They are easy on the eyes, but you act like they are a tier below the Manes with the right coaching.
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I don't think there's any chance Bayern would have any interest in Rashford and even Barca in their current state probably wouldn't be interested.

I'm not saying ASM is a better player, but I don't think he's as bad as some on here believe. If anything I think Rashford gets too much praise on here. When I watch both, I see them both constantly showing inconsistency with moments of brilliance here and there. I've lost count of the number of times Rashford runs into dead ends or gives the ball away cheaply. Even when he is in good form its a common trait.

ASM isn't as bad as some thing and Rashford ain't as good either. I think they are closer to each other than some are willing to admit.
 
BerryBerryShrew said:
1. He's been in "bad form" for around two successive years now. I don't think fans are impatient for losing hope.
2. Being in "bad form" means that you try harder off the ball to compensate for your mediocrity, it doesn't mean swanning around like you are a Messi/Maradona hybrid without bothering to press or track runners. His refusal to even try to go for the rebound against Villa was genuinely an insult to the fans.

That being said, I was much happier with his off the ball work ethic today. Long may that continue.
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Not going to lie, being in form and scoring 43 goals and 27 assists, I will take that!

I would like to see what he is like when he is in form then.
 
antohan said:
A tad harsh indeed, he is better than Newcastle and at 24 can still improve, let alone in better company.

But he is not world class/top club material, just the sort of valuable midtable club forward who can be a right handful on his day. Doesn't belong anywhere near a comparison with Rashford.
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The frustration of the past few months has resulted in the creation of a lot of crazy threads indeed
 
kouroux said:
The frustration of the past few months has resulted in the creation of a lot of crazy threads indeed
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Like constantly crowing about his goals and assists with no discussion about how overall woeful he's been or that he doesn't like to do something as basic as pass the ball when facing 3 defenders?

If Rashford has been so good, I wonder why his PR army has been so happy to throw OGS under the bus for not improving him? He's feeling the heat because he's no longer a talent, he's supposed to be the real deal.

He needs to improve or we need to look to other options for our starting 11.
 
Willing to bet the majority of comparisons with Saint Maximin or Adama Traore come from people who watch all of our games and only see the latter two pulling off mad dribbles in highlight clips.

If you think Rashford is particularly bad for running into dead ends or giving the ball away, you'd go mad if we actually had Traore playing for us. Complete meme of a footballer - Jesse Lingard is twice as productive as him.
 
In total, ASM has Scored 12 goals in 79 matches and Rashford has scored 93 in 288 matches. Let that sink in. A lad who has scored 12 goals as the main freaking attacking man in a club. I know he has played less no. Of matches but it is pure common sense to deduce that ASM isn't on the same level as Rashford.
Rashford scored that Ice Cold penalty in Paris for instance. He has been a match winner for us on numerous occasion. What the feck has ASM done since 2019.
A few months off form and this is what we do to our players.
God. Only us United fans will degrade and downgrade our players like this.
 
Rightnr said:
Like constantly crowing about his goals and assists with no discussion about how overall woeful he's been or that he doesn't like to do something as basic as pass the ball when facing 3 defenders?

If Rashford has been so good, I wonder why his PR army has been so happy to throw OGS under the bus for not improving him? He's feeling the heat because he's no longer a talent, he's supposed to be the real deal.

He needs to improve or we need to look to other options for our starting 11.
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I genuinely have no idea why you quoted me tbh
 
mu4c_20le said:
Nah, Rashford was linked plenty before. His ceiling is 10 times higher. Fair enough if you think ASM is a little better now, I'm just not seeing what some of you are, same with Traore. They are easy on the eyes, but you act like they are a tier below the Manes with the right coaching.
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They are nothing alike as players. Rashford is great at running into space behind the defence. Traore doesn't do that, at ASM doesn't have the top speed to pull that off - great acceleration, but he's not that fast over distance, is he? ASM and Traore have that power, close control and dribbles that will always amaze the crowd, but ultimately neither of them produce the goods. In that respect, they are night and day. Rashford is at his best when he just runs with the ball as defenders cannot keep up with him with or without the ball. Both Traore and ASM are quicker off the mark, and Traore probably also in terms of top speed, but Rashford cutting in from the left causes all sorts of problems for defences. Him running in behind always causes problems both because of his speed and his timing. I don't the the other two offering that element in their game at all.
 
Bobcat said:
Saint Maximin and Traore are both better. If either of them played for an actual top club, they would run riot imo
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I swear you must only watch these 2 against us and other big teams where they have space to run. They haven't even reached the level of Zaha at his best for palace.
 
Bowen was another name I mentioned in this category of mud table type players who are one of the better players at their club and carry a lot of the attack, something Rashford doesn't have to do in the slightest which helps him. But Bowen has looked really good for West Ham in general, but particularly these last few weeks he's been a thorn in the side of many teams.

If he had the likes of Bruno, Ronaldo, Cavani arrive him to also occupy defences and give him less attention from defenders, I think he would look good here too.
 
AmanNits04 said:
In total, ASM has Scored 12 goals in 79 matches and Rashford has scored 93 in 288 matches. Let that sink in. A lad who has scored 12 goals as the main freaking attacking man in a club. I know he has played less no. Of matches but it is pure common sense to deduce that ASM isn't on the same level as Rashford.
Rashford scored that Ice Cold penalty in Paris for instance. He has been a match winner for us on numerous occasion. What the feck has ASM done since 2019.
A few months off form and this is what we do to our players.
God. Only us United fans will degrade and downgrade our players like this.
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I dont think anyone would argue that Rashford isnt a better goalscorer but comparing a player of Manchester United to one of Newcastle United on goals scored isnt fair at all obviously.
 
I think ASM would be amazing at a top club. His dribbling is very similar to hazard. Very hard to bully of the ball for such a small player.

Either way I don’t think him and Rashford are comparable.
 
pocco said:
Bowen was another name I mentioned in this category of mud table type players who are one of the better players at their club and carry a lot of the attack, something Rashford doesn't have to do in the slightest which helps him. But Bowen has looked really good for West Ham in general, but particularly these last few weeks he's been a thorn in the side of many teams.

If he had the likes of Bruno, Ronaldo, Cavani arrive him to also occupy defences and give him less attention from defenders, I think he would look good here too.
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Rashford had to carry our attack in 2019/2020 until he got his back injury and he reached his so far career peak form doing it.
 
JB7 said:
If literally any other player in the league (or world frankly) had been in such "bad form" for past two years that they had only got 32 goals & 21 assists despite playing clearly injured for half the time we'd be saying how great they are.

Heck he's being compared to Saint-Maximin ffs, very talented player btw, who has barely beaten that throughout his whole career so far.
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Stats in the absence of context mean nothing (assuming they are correct). If g/a stats on their own were relevant then Lukaku would still be waddling around up front for us and everyone on this forum agrees that he is pantaloons. Mind you, that fatass still put in more effort than Rashford has done in recent times. Hopefully that is changing now though given that he actually did close down a bit when he came on at the weekend.
 
roonster09 said:
Talks about winger/wing forward and calls him rubbish striker, and this is the problem with Anit-Rashford club.
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This is very true, many of the players seem to have adopted fan hate that is all based on some extra curricular agenda. Rashford by all accounts hasn't been fantastic but he certainly hasn't warranted some of the criticism he's come under which always isn't far off a personal insult or two or something to do with his charitable deeds.
 
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