Is Ramos the most overrated CB in history?

mshnsh said:
No. They should have lost both games. Atletico were far the better side in both and Ronaldo was anonymous, infact the worst on the pitch.

As for getting to the final, Ronaldo's only contribution in 2013 was the hat trick vs wolfsburg.

In 2014, he scored alot of goals but again there wasn't a performance that was particularly memorable.
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Do you know how hard it is to score in the knockout stage of the champions league?

Also when he scored the hat-trick it was in 2016 to come back from 2-0 down and that's a feat only he has ever done and he has done it twice.

In 2014 he was great against in at Shalke and Bayern away were quite memorable.
 
Greatest player of all time. Even has a better penalty success rate than Ronaldo and Messi.
 
Pablo18th said:
Do you know how hard it is to score in the knockout stage of the champions league?

Also when he scored the hat-trick it was in 2016 to come back from 2-0 down and that's a feat only he has ever done and he has done it twice.

In 2014 he was great against in at Shalke and Bayern away were quite memorable.
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Also, i dont even know what he`s talking about, Wolfsburg wasn`t in 2013, that was years later.
In any case, he set up a great through-ball for Coentrao(who then passed it to Benzema) for the 1-0 against Bayern, so he played a part in that win too, i`d say.

Ronaldo had bad matches as everyone, but i think its just downright silly do downplay his knock-out record.
 
He's basically Ferdinand and Vidic rolled into one. The fearless, warrior-like tenacity of Nemanja combined with the elegance, intelligence and grace on the ball of Rio plus more as he also happens to be a prolific scorer (as a defender). All of this in addition to his remarkable longevity, leadership and long list of honours makes him him easily one of the best CBs of all-time.
 
Pablo18th said:
Do you know how hard it is to score in the knockout stage of the champions league?

Also when he scored the hat-trick it was in 2016 to come back from 2-0 down and that's a feat only he has ever done and he has done it twice.

In 2014 he was great against in at Shalke and Bayern away were quite memorable.
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Shalke is a rubbish team.

Against Bayern away, aside from the 2 goals it really wasn't something memorable. Sort of sums up Ronaldo; a great goalscorer without a great allround game.

I'll give him the performance vs Atletico at home with Juventus but in the game vs a mediocre Wolfsburg side the quality of goals wasn't great and neither was his performance. Again, a great goalscorer without a matching all round game.

This is not an insult. This is exactly how I would define him as a player. Everything else he does has never really stood out other than a couple of seasons in his career. 06/07 is his best season with regards to his all round game.
 
mshnsh said:
Shalke is a rubbish team.

Against Bayern away, aside from the 2 goals it really wasn't something memorable. Sort of sums up Ronaldo; a great goalscorer without a great allround game.

I'll give him the performance vs Atletico at home with Juventus but in the game vs a mediocre Wolfsburg side the quality of goals wasn't great and neither was his performance. Again, a great goalscorer without a matching all round game.

This is not an insult. This is exactly how I would define him as a player. Everything else he does has never really stood out other than a couple of seasons in his career. 06/07 is his best season with regards to his all round game.
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Unpopular opinion for a reason.
 
No one has answered why Pique isn't better than Ramos. He has more medals, since this is the metric we are going by (ignoring stuff like goals conceded and all that)
 
adexkola said:
No one has answered why Pique isn't better than Ramos. He has more medals, since this is the metric we are going by (ignoring stuff like goals conceded and all that)
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Pique's name is the one that should
be substituted in the thread title.

That said for much of Ramos' career he was too prone to errors and defensively he was a liability at times, but he compensated for it with all the other aspects he brings to the game. Mainly his winning mentality and his goal threat.
 
SilentStrike said:
Pique's name is the one that should
be substituted in the thread title.

That said for much of Ramos' career he was too prone to errors and defensively he was a liability at times, but he compensated for it with all the other aspects he brings to the game. Mainly his winning mentality and his goal threat.
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FOH.

So winning mentality + 100 goals negates actually doing a job at the position and being a crucial part of the most dominant team of the past 20 years?
 
adexkola said:
FOH.

So winning mentality + 100 goals negates actually doing a job at the position and being a crucial part of the most dominant team of the past 20 years?
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I suggested neither if the things you're implying. If anything those aspects of his game only support him being such a crucial part of his teams' successes.

Also no need to react as if you're personally offended. It only makes you look like a bit of an idiot.
 
SilentStrike said:
I suggested neither if the things you're implying. If anything those aspects of his game only support him being such a crucial part of his teams' successes.

Also no need to react as if you're personally offended. It only makes you look like a bit of an idiot.
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I beg to differ, it only highlights your ridiculous reply to my post which you could have just ignored if you had nothing knowledgeable to say. Jog on now.
 
adexkola said:
No one has answered why Pique isn't better than Ramos. He has more medals, since this is the metric we are going by (ignoring stuff like goals conceded and all that)
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Just from watching the two regularly Ramos is the one I'd chose every day of the week. A leader, technically excellent, and a stronger defender (in my opinion in one on ones). Ramos is just a level above in his game.
 
marktan said:
Just from watching the two regularly Ramos is the one I'd chose every day of the week. A leader, technically excellent, and a stronger defender (in my opinion in one on ones). Ramos is just a level above in his game.
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See, I'd beg to differ. If we're ignoring recency bias (and ignoring mentality/leadership/rah-rah attributes), Pique IMO was the better defender and more technical, played in the Tiki-Taka system seamlessly

Both were behind Godin in terms of actual defending but that's a topic for another day.
 
Cloud7 said:
Does this 'Ramos is overrated' discussion happen anywhere outside of the Caf? Of all the people I talk about football with in real life and on social media, who are a spread of supports of many different teams, it's pretty much unanimously agreed that he's the best CB of the last decade, and up there with one of the best ever.
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I rarely agree with him, but Steve Nichol also doesn't rate Ramos and thinks he's overrated. As a footballer, Ramos is fantastic. He just shouldn't be the last line of defense on his team. For me, he should be a DM with protection behind him. Footballing wise he can play in the midfield. Defense wise, he makes errors that would make Phil Jones blush. In fact, if I'm going to compare his defensive ability, Phil Jones would be a great comparison. Mind you, in 200 EPL appearances Jones has 0 red cards...
 
A very good defender. He's been well suited to the styles of the Spain and Real teams he's played for and he's been an integral part of the defense of two incredibly successful teams during his career. He will be remembered for that. I don't think he will ever be remembered as one of the greats.


The name on this thread should be changed to Virgil Van Dijk.
 
Can anyone tell me the worst game out of the 1 World Cup, 2 Euros and 4 Champions League finals that his team won?

Because reading some of the opinions here, and especially the one that says he should not play in the last line of the defense, I just cannot distinguish if the subject under study is Sergio Ramos or Dmitro Chygrynskiy.
 
GatoLoco said:
Can anyone tell me the worst game out of the 1 World Cup, 2 Euros and 4 Champions League finals that his team won?

Because reading some of the opinions here, and especially the one that says he should not play in the last line of the defense, I just cannot distinguish if the subject under study is Sergio Ramos or Gerald Pique
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I agree
 
This nonsense about reducing the conversation around the quality of a player to the size of his trophy cabinet is something I expect to hear among casual watchers of the sport. Like those who call Ali the best boxer ever. Those are the ones you just nod at and say, "yeah you're right" and make a mental note to never discuss sports on anything deeper than a bantz level

In 2012 the only rebuttal needed to such nonsensical arguments was "O'Shea" (as much as I love him). But who knows. Maybe 30 years from now, some will label John O'Shea as one of the greatest footballers to ever have lived.

Curious as to how some in this thread rate Benzema in the all time conversation.
 
I think the biggest credit to Ramos isn't the trophies he's won but the fact that he's survived at Real Madrid so long. That is one club that turfs out players so quickly it's not funny.

Ramos has been there since 2005? 2006?
 
Pablo18th said:
Do you know how hard it is to score in the knockout stage of the champions league?

Also when he scored the hat-trick it was in 2016 to come back from 2-0 down and that's a feat only he has ever done and he has done it twice.

In 2014 he was great against in at Shalke and Bayern away were quite memorable.
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Van Persie has done it against Olympiacos
 
Ramos is a legend, no one can take any of the feats and success he has accomplished, while also always playing at the highest possible stage and bringing glory to one of the most accoladed clubs in sports history. Not overrated at all
 
Of course he is overrated, you just have to read through this thread to confirm it, I mean putting him in the same bracket with Baresi and Maldini ffs, bloody hell.
 
Ramos love of hate him will be remembered as one of the great CB,s when he retires . A brilliant footballer and lasting that long at a club like Madrid he deserves all the praise he gets
 
A great CB, one of the greatest the last 15 years. Nearly fit to shine Maldini's shoes.
 
When assessing this, you need to realise that we are all casuals but he's probably had 10-15 coaches (club and international) in his career, some of the best coaches, and they have all had him in the heart of their defence. 660 games for Madrid, 177 caps for Spain. He's an absolute beast and one of the best defenders of our generation for sure.
 
R0nald0 said:
When assessing this, you need to realise that we are all casuals but he's probably had 10-15 coaches (club and international) in his career, some of the best coaches, and they have all had him in the heart of their defence. 660 games for Madrid, 177 caps for Spain. He's an absolute beast and one of the best defenders of our generation for sure.
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It's not like Madrid were hot shit all these years. Great job accumulating all these games for Madrid, but has anyone ever used this argument for Giggs? Or Scholes?
 
GatoLoco said:
Can anyone tell me the worst game out of the 1 World Cup, 2 Euros and 4 Champions League finals that his team won?

Because reading some of the opinions here, and especially the one that says he should not play in the last line of the defense, I just cannot distinguish if the subject under study is Sergio Ramos or Dmitro Chygrynskiy.
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No no you don't get it. Some people are saying that Ramos is the best defender in the world. Others think that someone else is so they think "hang on a minute. My guy is better. Let's highlight every flaw and amplify them so everyone sees my way".
 
adexkola said:
It's not like Madrid were hot shit all these years. Great job accumulating all these games for Madrid, but has anyone ever used this argument for Giggs? Or Scholes?
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But these were unquestionably world class players as well, no doubt whatsoever that Ramos is world class.

Right up there with the best of his generation. You just don't have his trophy collection and be one of the first names on the team sheet throughout that period for club and country without being absolutely top level. The guy is an absolute boss.

Quick, powerful, absolute leader, scores important goals, sets the tone for his team every week. He's such a good footballer and is so athletic and mobile that he effectively becomes like an extra man for his team when on the pitch when you compare him to your average centreback.
 
Great player, he’s easily in the conversation of the best defender of his generation. Superb leader, and fantastic captain. The fact that it’s only maybe VVD who compares to him currently, and he’s had two great years compared to Ramos whose played at the top for 12-15 years, shows how good he’s been.

we are however in a time, when the standard of defending is poor, and there are so few good defenders about, so whilst you can’t knock Ramos for lack of competition, it does show that previous generation of defenders were better. Great modern defender, not near the running as an all time great.
 
MrEleson said:
He's basically Ferdinand and Vidic rolled into one. The fearless, warrior-like tenacity of Nemanja combined with the elegance, intelligence and grace on the ball of Rio plus more as he also happens to be a prolific scorer (as a defender). All of this in addition to his remarkable longevity, leadership and long list of honours makes him him easily one of the best CBs of all-time.
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He has won a boat load of trophies and scored a lot of important goals along the way. He is highly rated based on his talent and accomplishments.
 
RUCK4444 said:
But these were unquestionably world class players as well, no doubt whatsoever that Ramos is world class.

Right up there with the best of his generation. You just don't have his trophy collection and be one of the first names on the team sheet throughout that period for club and country without being absolutely top level. The guy is an absolute boss.

Quick, powerful, absolute leader, scores important goals, sets the tone for his team every week. He's such a good footballer and is so athletic and mobile that he effectively becomes like an extra man for his team when on the pitch when you compare him to your average centreback.
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I'm not saying Ramos isn't a great player.

What I am saying is that some of the justifications ye are using to come to this conclusion, are quite frankly, shit.

Trophy count argument: shit
Amount of games played for Real Madrid: shit
Goals scored (in relation to his skill as a defender): shit
Goals scored in finals: shit

Valid arguments:
Quality of performances in all big games (not cherry picked to look at only CL finals)
Quality of performances over entire seasons
Number of goals conceded (in relation to his skill as a defender)

I'm sure there are more you can throw in either bucket. All of you... Do better.
 
adexkola said:
I'm not saying Ramos isn't a great player.

What I am saying is that some of the justifications ye are using to come to this conclusion, are quite frankly, shit.

Trophy count argument: shit
Amount of games played for Real Madrid: shit
Goals scored (in relation to his skill as a defender): shit
Goals scored in finals: shit

Valid arguments:
Quality of performances in all big games (not cherry picked to look at only CL finals)
Quality of performances over entire seasons
Number of goals conceded (in relation to his skill as a defender)

I'm sure there are more you can throw in either bucket. All of you... Do better.
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No sure if serious. Trophy count and club appearances have no correlation to player quality? Really? :lol:
 
RUCK4444 said:
No sure if serious. Trophy count and club appearances have no correlation to player quality? Really? :lol:
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The correlation is much smaller than you're giving it credit for. Club appearances are all well and good, but the quality of performances over those appearances matter most. Trophy count is all good but those are team achievements.

Again, someone look at Pique's resume and tell me why he's not ranked higher than Ramos, if we are speaking about trophy count. Do I really need to compare Gerrard and O'Shea here?
 
Zarlak said:
Yeah but number of goals conceded are, when a large number of those won't relate to him in any way shape or form. Mistakes from other defenders, goal keepers, full backs etc
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So what is he responsible for on the field, if a direct metric related to how good of a job you're doing as a defender, can't be put on him?

I'm sure there are other metrics (number of errors leading to a goal conceded, yellow/red cards, etc that can be used).

I mean, maybe it's my fault watching too much English football. Chelsea set the record for goals conceded under Mourinho and that translated into how we looked at Terry/Carvalho. United set the record a while ago for consecutive goals without conceded and that reflected positively on Vidic/Rio. So I don't know. Godin actually defends but apparently you can't credit him with this because of the system Atletico play. It's all confusing with Ramos
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
we are however in a time, when the standard of defending is poor, and there are so few good defenders about, so whilst you can’t knock Ramos for lack of competition, it does show that previous generation of defenders were better. Great modern defender, not near the running as an all time great.
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Pretty much this.
 
No, he’s not overrated. Is he the best of all time at defending? Probably not, but his overall play and leadership plus everything he’s won (some trophies wouldn’t have even been won if it weren’t for this crucial goals) makes him an all time great.
 
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