Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

[RedRocket9908]

But there's always that caveat.

Those clubs would have been successful with a dominant style of play without him.

We know this because before and after him they were.

Doesn't mean he isn't a great manager but I think the tika taka style that everybody has copied is his biggest legacy. Not many managers change how the game's played(for good or bad).

Exactly, he has earnt success by managing already succesfull clubs and his style isnt revolutionary its copied from the style the managers who managed him used as well as the style used by Ajax in the 70's.

 

[Wilt]

His team’s gone to shite.

Although it would be impressive if he could turn shite to gold and win either the PL or CL.

 

[romufc]

The best squad, facilities, biggest financial backing, entire back team, technical staff chosen for him and the comfort of every other team needing to watch their spending in the face of laws that they break.

But yeah, if he overcomes a few injuries, he is the best manager of all time.

Ferguson fought, and eventually beat, all the pretenders that were willing to spend more, had better facilities, better scouting and recruitment, more expensive players, more powerful contacts, and eventually, he rose to the challenge and beat every single one of them, including City.

He played the likes of Rafael, O’Shea and Gibson in CL semi finals. He is the undisputed goat and Guardiola could never accomplish what he did with some of the squads that he had. There is no comparison.

The fact that he appears to be having a breakdown at the first sign of any real adversity, only proves that further.

Exactly this. He has had the best squad by far when he is winning. Having 2 players in each position.

Now that he lost his CDM, he is struggling. Everyone talks about how good a coach he is but he needs the best players too.

Like you mention, he cant do it with the likes of Rafael, Oshe, Gibson, Cleverly, Jones, Smalling.

The day he takes over a team that is not favorite to win the title and wins it, is when I will say he is the GOAT.

 

[Nobby style]

Let me know when Plep takes a side like Aberdeen and knocks the two league giants off their perch and wins three league titles there, and two Europen cups as well . . . and then goes on to do what everyone here knows he achieved at United. In this perspective, it's not even close. When has Pep accomplished anything that wasn't with an absolute top notch side???

To be honest I'm not sure even Neil Warnock couldn't have won what Plep did with those loaded and supported Barsa, Bayern and Citeh sides, and have done it without that annoying Tiki Taki bollocks.

 

[gajender]

You can't expect objectivity about Guardiola on United Forum , he may or may not be the greatest but he will always be in the conversation .

 

[Fobal]

You can't expect objectivity about Guardiola on United Forum , he may or may not be the greatest but he will always be in the conversation .

so true, also for some reason many fans think that Alex is the indisputed greatest coach ever outside of England and has to be dethroned, yet it's far from such scenario.

It's the "when he does it on a windy rainy night on Stoke" sort of stuff, time and again.

 

[Wilt]

Let me know when Plep takes a side like Aberdeen and knocks the two league giants off their perch and wins three league titles there, and two Europen cups as well . . . and then goes on to do what everyone here knows he achieved at United. In this perspective, it's not even close. When has Pep accomplished anything that wasn't with an absolute top notch side???

To be honest I'm not sure even Neil Warnock couldn't have won what Plep did with those loaded and supported Barsa, Bayern and Citeh sides, and have done it without that annoying Tiki Taki bollocks.

Was with you up until the Neil fecking Warnock bit….

 

[Top_Bins]

This thread shows the extent that people are willing to look past doping offenses, bribery and disregard for FFP rules if the end result is trophies.

 

[Dolf]

Imagine Pep starting his managerial career in the Eredivisie at Utrecht or PEC Zwolle. Do you guys really think he would have had succes?

 

[RedRocket9908]

so true, also for some reason many fans think that Alex is the indisputed greatest coach ever outside of England and has to be dethroned, yet it's far from such scenario.

It's the "when he does it on a windy rainy night on Stoke" sort of stuff, time and again.

Can you name another manager that stayed at one club for 26 years and dominated domestically as much as Sir Alex did?

Can you name another manager that would have won the Premier League in 2012/13 with the squad Sir Alex had while up against the massive spending of Chelsea and City?

 

[Fobal]

Can you name another manager that stayed at one club for 26 years and dominated domestically as much as Sir Alex did?

Can you name another manager that would have won the Premier League in 2012/13 with the squad Sir Alex had while up against the massive spending of Chelsea and City?

What does this has to do with anything I was talking about, what I've said it's that notion of him being the Undisputed best coach ever outside of England, it's not true. Just that.

There are people that preffers Mou, others Pep and so on, it's far from a settle in stone affair.
Yet the way Pep is treated here, it's beyond silly but understandeable given it's a Man Utd Forum.

PD: to heavily critized any of Alex, Pep, Carletto, Mou or others in such realm, it's silly, they were/are all fecking great with their own styles, attributes and tendencies. In fact I'm more fond of particular periods and teams with any manager, than anything else.
In fact for instance I might not like a manager in general, like I'm far from a fan of Van Gaal and his tendencies, yet his Ajax from 94/95 was a thing of beauty, what a team one of the best I've ever seen up there with anyone.

 

[Marwood]

Even with all the caveats, Guardiola is one of the greatest managers football has ever seen and he will be remembered as such.

Agree he will. He just won't be in the top 5 because he won't take on that challenge of winning against the odds.

Exactly, he has earnt success by managing already succesfull clubs and his style isnt revolutionary its copied from the style the managers who managed him used as well as the style used by Ajax in the 70's.

To be fair if it already did exist he brought it back. I don’t like it as a style but it is Pep's version today's managers are copying.

 

[SER19]

If city are punished appropriately, he won't even be near the conversation

 

[Semper Fudge]

even Neil Warnock

Showing your age here.

 

[RDCR07]

If city are punished appropriately, he won't even be near the conversation

They won’t be. We all know this.

 

[stefan92]

But there's always that caveat.

Those clubs would have been successful with a dominant style of play without him.

We know this because before and after him they were.

Doesn't mean he isn't a great manager but I think the tika taka style that everybody has copied is his biggest legacy. Not many managers change how the game's played(for good or bad).

Maybe I have a very "German" perspective but what he did at Bayern was simply continuing what van Gaal brought to the club, and even then not everybody exactly copied him, as most clubs understood that they didn't have the squad for that style. And those who did didn't wait for him to arrive.

So at least here van Gaal had far more lasting and widespread influence than Pep. Pep somewhat personifies the peak of possession style and that's a sign of greatness, but that doesn't mean that he had that huge impact on football in general.

 

[Marwood]

Maybe I have a very "German" perspective but what he did at Bayern was simply continuing what van Gaal brought to the club, and even then not everybody exactly copied him, as most clubs understood that they didn't have the squad for that style. And those who did didn't wait for him to arrive.

So at least here van Gaal had far more lasting and widespread influence than Pep. Pep somewhat personifies the peak of possession style and that's a sign of greatness, but that doesn't mean that he had that huge impact on football in general.

Well obviously I didn't literally mean everybody. But I mean look at the Premier League. How many clubs aren't passing it out from the back with the goalkeeper and defenders heavily involved in possession?

I'm not saying Pep invented it but today's clubs aren't copying Dutch managers from the 70's.

I'm not a fan of the guy but his influence on world footbakl has been huge.

 

[Tincanalley]

Let me know when Plep takes a side like Aberdeen and knocks the two league giants off their perch and wins three league titles there, and two Europen cups as well . . . and then goes on to do what everyone here knows he achieved at United. In this perspective, it's not even close. When has Pep accomplished anything that wasn't with an absolute top notch side???

To be honest I'm not sure even Neil Warnock couldn't have won what Plep did with those loaded and supported Barsa, Bayern and Citeh sides, and have done it without that annoying Tiki Taki bollocks.

Is Plep a form of abuse? Like Pleb? Or Plopp (pal of Klopp)? Or Plup (sound of escaping wind)?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

They won’t be. We all know this.

They will be

 

[II Ry II]

Exactly this. He has had the best squad by far when he is winning. Having 2 players in each position.

Now that he lost his CDM, he is struggling. Everyone talks about how good a coach he is but he needs the best players too.

Like you mention, he cant do it with the likes of Rafael, Oshe, Gibson, Cleverly, Jones, Smalling.

The day he takes over a team that is not favorite to win the title and wins it, is when I will say he is the GOAT.

I think his style requires the highest calibre of player to work consistently.

 

[Tincanalley]

This thread shows the extent that people are willing to look past doping offenses, bribery and disregard for FFP rules if the end result is trophies.

Like in here when the unwashed got the scent of oil money and expected a Oildollar Daddy to come and take over Manchester United. The justifications...

 

[Top_Bins]

Like in here when the unwashed got the scent of oil money and expected a Oildollar Daddy to come and take over Manchester United. The justifications...

Glad that didn't happen. I was ready to walk away if the Oil club scenario happened. There's just no honour or glory in it.

 

[Tincanalley]

Glad that didn't happen. I was ready to walk away if the Oil club scenario happened. There's just no honour or glory in it.

To be truthful, I’m still not sure what I’d have done. Picked a different game/interest? Looked in now and again at a derby game? Probably.

 

[NWOntario]

To be truthful, I’m still not sure what I’d have done. Picked a different game/interest? Looked in now and again at a derby game? Probably.

I'd have given up on the Premier League or begun supporting West Ham (wife's club) or Southampton (my family's other club - we're roughly divided between United and Saints supporters). Any of those would've been vastly preferable to me.

 

[Moriarty]

Like in here when the unwashed got the scent of oil money and expected a Oildollar Daddy to come and take over Manchester United. The justifications...

I just want United back to where we were before the parasites weaseled their way in. No debt, money to burn, and all earned by Manchester United F.C. Of course it will never happen. It's all castles in Spain.