Pep might well retire as the most succesfull manager of all time but for me that doesn't automatically translate to the best or greatest.
Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
For me Pep is the best, city are incredible we have to admit that. Never have I seen a united team this good. 99 was brilliant but if Pep does this it eclipses what we achieved.
Financial doping and using that as a claim that they are cheats makes me cringe. It's not even been proven yet. Everyone now spends a shed load of money, we have also just very very badly. You have to spend money to buy good players to win leagues.
I've no problem with rich people injecting money into the beautiful game in England, obviously within the rules.
Financial doping and using that as a claim that they are cheats makes me cringe. It's not even been proven yet. Everyone now spends a shed load of money, we have also just very very badly. You have to spend money to buy good players to win leagues.
I've no problem with rich people injecting money into the beautiful game in England, obviously within the rules.
If Fergie had been allowed to spend at ManUtd even remotely like Pep has at City, he would have dominated Europe and the PL to a far greater extent. Fergie spent big but he was actually rarely the biggest spender and our wage cap made us miss out on legit chances of getting players like R9, Batistuta and the likes.
There's no point in saying he's not a brilliant coach and manager because he clearly is, but he's had every advantage you could possibly imagine as a football manager - inheriting the best players in the world at Barca; getting the biggest, richest and most successful club in Germany; and now a club with a bottomless pit of wealth and who aren't afraid to use it (legally or otherwise).
He's never had to manage a small club and put together a team on a shoestring budget (and be successful in doing so); he's never had to go to a club who were in rag order and completely overhaul the club from top to bottom.
Not his fault of course, he can only make a success of the jobs he's been given. But it's like saying a man who inherited a billion pound industry is the greatest businessman of all time, rather than men who started with nothing and earned their own billions!
He's never had to manage a small club and put together a team on a shoestring budget (and be successful in doing so); he's never had to go to a club who were in rag order and completely overhaul the club from top to bottom.
Not his fault of course, he can only make a success of the jobs he's been given. But it's like saying a man who inherited a billion pound industry is the greatest businessman of all time, rather than men who started with nothing and earned their own billions!
Obviously as a United fan I'm probably biased as hell but Ferguson is the greatest manager in my opinion.
Not only did he dominate Scotland with Aberdeen, we basically dominated the English game for 20 years.
The only knock you can have is he probably should have won more Champion's Leagues with us but the level of competition was also very high
Not only did he dominate Scotland with Aberdeen, we basically dominated the English game for 20 years.
The only knock you can have is he probably should have won more Champion's Leagues with us but the level of competition was also very high
If you choose to ignore the FFP cheating then Pep has done a great job but I think he's had it easier than Sir Alex. City were already winning titles under Mancini and Pellegrini before Pep took over so the team was already in a much better place compared to when Sir Alex took over United.
I think the competition was harder in '99 as well, we were competing against one of the best ever Arsenal teams to win the league and cup plus I remember how good the Barca, Inter, Juventus and Bayern teams were to win the champions league
He is nowhere near the best manager of all time, there have been many managers who were or are better.
It might be an unpopular opinion but I believe Claudio Ranieri winning the Premier League with Leicester was a bigger achievement than anything Pep has done so far.
It might be an unpopular opinion but I believe Claudio Ranieri winning the Premier League with Leicester was a bigger achievement than anything Pep has done so far.
I’m sorry, but SAF won a European trophy with ABERDEEN and is literally responsible for resurrecting man utd from also rans to biggest team in the world. Let Pep go and win a European trophy with Girona and then dominate England and Europa with Tottenham, then we can talk.
SAF is the greatest of all time. Is this even debatable? We never had 22 superstars in our squad. Our teams were built on spirit and industry, with one or two superstars sprinkling their brilliance. SAF was THE greatest team-motivator in any sport.
Bottom line, you can accuse people of whatever you want. If they are not convicted and punished then posterity still counts all those titles as belonging to whoever won them. Those are the hard facts. That's why I keep it to the pitch in assessing who is better than who. You're of course free to choose your own criteria.
You are right.
Who cares if Agassi cheated? On the court he was magnificent. And he was never convicted nor punished. He couldn't be, he was even protected by the ATP.
Who cares if Barcelona cheated and was protected by several executives to not be convicted? On the pitch it was clear Pep was the best manager. You gotta keep to the pitch to assess.
Sometimes at night, I just close my eyes and imagine Armstrong was never convicted and punished. Oh my, what a fine cyclist he was. Pity he was caught.
Didn't the ref chief already admit he was being paid to help their interests??
This looks like a textbook case of Pep Guardiola is my idol
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If you have enough money you can pretty much get away with anything, regardless of whether or not you actually committed a crime. That's not something that should be used as a defence though, especially in a sport where money usually dictates who wins these days.
I think you're confusing hard facts with something else. Hard facts are things that actually happened, not what a person or organisation is punished for. Going by your definition Maradona didn't punch the ball into the net against England because a goal was awarded and he wasn't punished for it. Do you not see where that logic leads eventually?
City have obviously cheated their way to their position. They have spent way beyond their natural means - it isn’t even arguable.
Why should it be acceptable that one team breaks the rules that the other 19 teams abide by? And so blatantly that it results in so many charges!
Absolute world class manager and nobody can take that away from him he is one of the best ever for sure.
He needs to take on a team and build them up though. Arguably the greatest Barce side ever, Bayern and City are 3 huge clubs with budgets that can buy the players he needs for his system.
I generally believe if he was managing Everton or some similar club they'd be a relegation candidate because his style wouldn't work and I cant see him having a backup way of doing things.
He needs to take on a team and build them up though. Arguably the greatest Barce side ever, Bayern and City are 3 huge clubs with budgets that can buy the players he needs for his system.
I generally believe if he was managing Everton or some similar club they'd be a relegation candidate because his style wouldn't work and I cant see him having a backup way of doing things.
If the other teams had the same resources as city "they would cheat to".
The rules are there for obvious reason but is it fair that old clubs like man utd who have been shit for 10 years can spend almost whatever we like.
What a ridiculous question.
No one even starts with SAF.
Can you imagine Pep without the backing of all the oil money?
He'd be another Allardyce.
No one even starts with SAF.
Can you imagine Pep without the backing of all the oil money?
He'd be another Allardyce.
Wasn't he also Barcelona manager when they were bribing refs?
I'm not confusing anything with anything. The Maradona example is a terrible one because millions of people literally saw it happen. We are talking about things that are alleged but not established or proven by tribunals or similar legal or administrative bodies. Take the Barca case for example. The argument is not whether money was paid to that guy, however dodgy that looks. What you have to prove (and what is alleged) is a direct link between money paid and influence on referees in favour of Barcelona in football matches. That is a much harder thing to establish, but there are ways. As far as I am aware, the prosecution in that regard has zero evidence so Barca won't be stripped of anything and people will go on thinking that was a great era, except for people who already hate Barcelona of course.
He’s the best chequebook manager of all time, but for me there are too many question marks, he’s done it at two clubs.. one with possibly the best club squad ever which came through the ranks without his aid, and the other with infinite resources where he’s been allowed to buy a new defence and goalkeeper whenever he fancied it, other clubs don’t have such luxuries, so for me it’s still Sir Alex, and that’s without the United specs on
He's a all time great no doubt but since leaving Barca he's only taken jobs with all the odds on his favour. Even him leaving Barca was after Mou beat him to the title. He's an incredible luxury manager but there is nothing to suggest he can actually win when the odds are against him. He plays FM with cheat codes.
Have you ever wondered why it is Barcelona being investigated for such serious referee bribes and no other club? Or why UEFA and the PL have 115 charges against City and no other club in their history comes close to that many serious charges?
People won’t forget. People still remember his doping scandal as a player or the Barca Chelsea 2009 referee „performance“.
But sure, if there are people to who cheating doesn’t matter and they excuse it with „they have not been punished yet“, then „fair“ enough.
He’s won 11 leagues in three different countries and soon to be 3 European Cups and a treble in a span of 14 years. He will go down as the best easily and he shows no signs of slowing down and will pad these untouchable numbers.
Yep. Funny how quickly so many have forgotten that all his achievements at Barca were a farce.
The footballl they played weren't a farce. It created a short revolution in football where teams tried to play their brand.
They had to dope the players with PEDs to achieve that.
I thought the goal of sportswashing is to try and improve the reputation of a state, but it makes sense that it’s actually to try and trick people into thinking Guardiola is a better manager than he really is
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion. Ranieri winning the PL with Leicester is the greatest premier league achievement of all time. No other achievement in the PL matches it.
Poch comes close with coming 3rd in a two horse race.I thought the goal of sportswashing is to try and improve the reputation of a state, but it makes sense that it’s actually to try and trick people into thinking Guardiola is a better manager than he really is
I don’t think that’s an unpopular opinion. Ranieri winning the PL with Leicester is the greatest premier league achievement of all time. No other achievement in the PL matches it.
He's one of the greats....
honestly though... what challenges has he faced as a manager?
Winning a consistency battle against a Klopp side with far less resources is the main one I can think of.
honestly though... what challenges has he faced as a manager?
Winning a consistency battle against a Klopp side with far less resources is the main one I can think of.
Their style of play wasn't much different to Spain 2010. But going by Fuentes they were doped as well.
When it takes a manager like pep almost a decade to win a CL with unlimited resources and the best players post Barcelona, you can understand Fergie's issues in the early and mid ninety's.
Pep has shown that he is probably the best tactician the game has ever seen but if you need the best players to implement them, you are a cheque book manager. He has been given every player he has wanted, shipped off any player who doesn't buy in to his tactics. He is at the best place he can ever be.
Pep has shown that he is probably the best tactician the game has ever seen but if you need the best players to implement them, you are a cheque book manager. He has been given every player he has wanted, shipped off any player who doesn't buy in to his tactics. He is at the best place he can ever be.
Congratulations pep and to city for completing the treble.
People will forget if there is no proof and no sanctions. And I can wonder why this or that till the cows come home, it doesn't prove guilt. I can wonder why Ronaldo has been accused of rape and hundreds of other footballers haven't been; it doesn't mean he's definitely a rapist and all the other players are definitely not.
I think you’re being very unfair there, Amadeus also mentioned his achievements at Southampton and PSG that you conveniently left out!
Although I do have to point out, that Poch got an 8th place finish at Southampton, which while genuinely impressive, Koeman
finished 6th and 7th in the next two seasons, and widely lambasted for his time there Puel finished 8th the season after Koeman.
And getting to the semi finals with PSG was a good achievement, but the season before Tuchel also won all the domestic cups, won the league, and got to the finals of the Champions league.
I’m sorry Amadeus you’re an entertaining poster and I respect that you’re willing to go against the grain, but you made this post too easy.
Well said.Just like at City. There's always shenanigans with this lad. I'm almost sure there was some PED suspicions at Bayern too! Dodgy dealing seems to follow him around.
A fantastic coach, one of the best ever. But very simply there are other managers who have done what he has done and also proven themselves in other ways. Guardiola's career happened to go as such that he didn't have to start at a low level, so it can't be held against him, but the likes of Ferguson's achievements at Aberdeen and transforming United are among the finest achievements ever, for example. Even what Mourinho did at Inter eclipses any of Guardiola's achievements so far.
The bottom line is that, although they might not have done it so impressively or comprehensively, I believe any of the managers who enter this conversation would have won the Champions League with that freakish Messi Barca team, and also 100% have eventually won a CL for City.
The day he took the city job, if somebody told you'd they'd give him 7 years and a blank chequebook, you'd simply have to bet he'd win at least one CL. You would say the same for Klopp, Ancellotti, and several others. All tonights CL is is an inevitability that really should have happened already. It's like shooting from the halfway line in every game- when it goes in it will look good and all, but it was guaranteed to eventually.
The bottom line is that, although they might not have done it so impressively or comprehensively, I believe any of the managers who enter this conversation would have won the Champions League with that freakish Messi Barca team, and also 100% have eventually won a CL for City.
The day he took the city job, if somebody told you'd they'd give him 7 years and a blank chequebook, you'd simply have to bet he'd win at least one CL. You would say the same for Klopp, Ancellotti, and several others. All tonights CL is is an inevitability that really should have happened already. It's like shooting from the halfway line in every game- when it goes in it will look good and all, but it was guaranteed to eventually.
Um no. This looks like a textbook case of "I'm bitter and salty'' .
In one.
Amazing that when it comes to Fergie a lot of these experts ignore he's still the last manager to win a European trophy with a Scottish team, last manager to beat Real in a European final, last manager of a team outside of Celtic and Rangers to win the Scottish top flight and that's before you get to his acheivements with us
Exactly!