Is our squad average?

Looking at each position one by one
GKs- We're fine here with Onana who's been brilliant and Altay as a back up for smaller games
CB- Lisandro, De Ligt, Yoro, Maguire(on a new contract with reduced wages) and Mazraoui at RCB(which IMO suits him more than a RWB) is solid so we'd need just one new CB
Wingbacks- We definitely need a completely new pair of wingbacks IMO. At least one of Malacia/Shaw need to be sold due to their fitness to make way for a LWB and Dalot is fine as a squad player but not as a starting RWB as I don't think he has the productivity or consistency. Also not a fan of Amad there
CM- Kobbie and Ugarte are fine otherwise we need two new midfielders. Eriksen and Casemiro are past their best and don't have the legs to match the intensity needed for this system
The two #10s- Bruno, Amad and Mount are the best fits for these positions and are worth keeping but we still need a new creative player there. Tough decisions will have to be made on Rashford and potentially Garnacho with the former going down the Martial route of wasted potential and the latter being inconsistent and a misfit
ST- We definitely need a new ST. Hojlund is a back up ST quality at best with not enough goals in him(yet) and Zirkzee is just bang average
Long story short another rebuild needed unfortunately
 
I think this thread looks different with a 15-20 goal number 9.

The squad has plenty of potential anyway and I don’t think quite as much work as some here suggest. Certainly not in full rebuild territory.

It’s obvious RA will need to bring in a couple of players for his system. Everyone does this (look at what Pep and Klopp inherited and how that played out, even Arteta who 4 years on can’t quite get it right).
 
TheReligion said:
I think this thread looks different with a 15-20 goal number 9.

The squad has plenty of potential anyway and I don’t think quite as much work as some here suggest. Certainly not in full rebuild territory.

It’s obvious RA will need to bring in a couple of players for his system. Everyone does this (look at what Pep and Klopp inherited and how that played out, even Arteta who 4 years on can’t quite get it right).
Click to expand...
If we have a 15-20 goal striker, it won't be thanks to the current supporting cast.
 
Dans said:
If we have a 15-20 goal striker, it won't be thanks to the current supporting cast.
Click to expand...
I don’t know. We do create. We don’t continue to create because there comes a point where that ball stops coming as it’s never converted.
 
A really good player is consistent. Year in year out. Who can you say that of in our squad? Literally no one. Either through injury, they are new or thier form had dropped. Thats our problem. We can never build if your players are 8/10 one minute and 4/10 the next or out injured all the time
 
TheReligion said:
I don’t know. We do create. We don’t continue to create because there comes a point where that ball stops coming as it’s never converted.
Click to expand...
We do not create anywhere near enough to supply even a Harry Kane with 15 goals.
 
TheReligion said:
We create less without Mainoo
Click to expand...
In Amorim's system I'd suggest it's the forward 3 and the wing backs primarily whose job it is to create. That said, Mainoo is capable of scoring goals and I should imagine with time, creating too - he's very, very young still.
 
Dans said:
If we have a 15-20 goal striker, it won't be thanks to the current supporting cast.
Click to expand...
Not sure, our strikers seem to avoid moving into dangerous areas, so many times our wide players push forward with the strikers lagging far behind, or when well in range, positioning themselves very poorly. I got a feeling it was down to ETH's tactic of playing strikers deep. I hope it will be better with Amorim in charge.

But no one can ever convince me Kane wouldn't have done it better. Our strikers are having a miserable time.
 
Sell rashford. Zirkzee Buy Sportings striker.


Onana
Yoro delit Martinez
Mazz Ugarte mainoo shaw
Amad Bruno
New striker

Bench
Garnacho mount casamiro Maguire Dalot Hojlund

Looks way above average that
 
There are some good players in the squad and the back line and keeper are strong. Its just the attacking positions and lack of goals letting us down.

A reliable wing forward with 15-20 goals a season and another top CM would do wonders for our consistency.
 
We need a very very fast CB. We need a Left Wingback that can stay fit, push up and defend for 90 mins. We need a creative central attacking midfielder (#8/10) to create more chances and score more goals. We need a very mobile, strong forward #9 like Gyokres.
 
To compete for the title Amorim will have to sign some players. Currently they're not good enough to win the PL or the CL.
 
There's a worrying lack of quality for the money spent.

Even centre back, having bought big in the summer on 2 players still could be improved now we're meaning to play 3 there.

Our wingers range from promising youth to occasional game changers to massively overpriced.

And Hojlund has good potential, but shouldn't be the lead striker at a club aiming for top 6 let alone higher.

Add in how we deal with wing back positions and the constant need for at least 1 centre mid and we look further back now then last summer in a way.

Roll on tomorrow though, another win always makes it look rosier.
 
We desperately need that one magician in attack, like Salah. The one who could turn average game into a win.
 
I think for the way managers want United to play, they aren't the right group of players.

I don't think the squad is as bad as it seems, some are very young and there's 5 new players. It's been a constant struggle since Fergie left finding the right system to play with the right group of players for that system.
 
GK thought Obana was rubbish I was wrong.

Central defence options:

Mazrouii, De Ligt, Licha, Shaw (when fit), Maguire, Yoro.

I think most top 4/6 sides aren’t that much better.

Wing back? Shaw can’t stay fit, Dalot is unconvincing.

Midfield, Mainoo starred for England, Cas starred for Madrid but legs are a concern. Ugarte starred for Sporting. Bruno and Mount both incredibly capable.

Striker, I really think and always have done that Hojilund can and soon will bring it and be star.

Gernacho can be a world star IF and it’s a big IF can step up consistency in his finishing.

We have 3 young players who could rise to
the very very top:

Gernacho, Hojilund, Mainoo and we are told Yoro could be a star too.

The player I’m fed up of is Rashford. He needs to show he wants it or to go elsewhere.
 
Steve 007 said:
GK thought Obana was rubbish I was wrong.

Central defence options:

Mazrouii, De Ligt, Licha, Shaw (when fit, Maguire, Yoro.

I think most top 4/6 sides aren’t that much better.

Wing back? Shaw can’t stay fit, Dalot is unconvincing.

Midfield, Mainoo starred for England, Cas starred for Madrid legs are a concern. Ugarte starred for Sporting. Bruno and mount both incredibly capable.

Striker I really think and always have done that Hojilund can and soon will bring it and be star.

Gernacho can be a world star IF and it’s a big IF can step up consistency in his finishing.

We have 3 young players who could rise to
the very very top:

Gernacho, Hojilund, Mainoo and we are told Yoro could be a star too.

personally the player I’m fed up of is Rashford. He needs to show he wants it or to go elsewhere.
Click to expand...
I agree with most but it was a while ago when Cas played for RM, concerns about his legs started during his first season.

I don't think many would describe mount as "incredibly capable".

I don't think Garnacho is some big talent, I think amad is a bigger one.
 
Hammondo said:
I agree with most but it was a while ago when Cas played for RM, concerns about his legs started during his first season.

I don't think many would describe mount as "incredibly capable".

I don't think Garnacho is some big talent, I think amad is a bigger one.
Click to expand...
Totally true that Cas is in his 3rd season, he like Erickson has genuine moments of sheer class but legs are a concern.

I think we haven’t seen the best of Mount yet, he works hard and needs a few goals. I love Amad but it’s deffo Gernacho that gets me in the edge of my seat.
 
Steve 007 said:
Totally true that Cas is in his 3rd season, he like Erickson has genuine moments of sheer class but legs are a concern.

I think we haven’t seen the best of Mount yet, he works hard and needs a few goals. I love Amad but it’s deffo Gernacho that gets me in the edge of my seat.
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem with mount, I think he can be very valuable to a squad and I realise he hasn't been given a great chance yet.

However, amad all day, Garnacho doesn't do much for me.
 
We finished 8th last season and were lucky in many games. We find it very difficult to beat top 5 teams. This is not a good squad, top 5 will be very difficult.
 
The attack massively brings it down. It isn't too bad elsewhere. Little tweaks here and there perhaps. A wing-back here, centre back there, potentially another centre mid. It's the attack that may require more upheaval. For example, Rashford is on mega money and doesn't contribute. Can Mount stay fit? Can we develop Højlund and Garnacho into leading players in their positions?

Top 4/5 isn't happening this season, I believe. However, with a few new additions and a full pre-season with Amorim, I think we'll be competing for the Champions League places next season. The year after that - could be even better.
 
To be honest, it’s really hard to say much conclusively about this squad. Mentality seems iffy, and game intelligence has been poor. But we haven’t had an identity in forever and I feel that’s a lot down to not-great management/coaching and not been able to get any sort of momentum going.

On a scale from 0-100 I’d rate our squad somewhere in the 70-85 range. It’s just a really wide range, cause it’s so unclear how good these players really are. For reference, I’d say Liverpool are probably a 90point squad, City and Arsenal are something like 85 with City having the most age-related problems. Chelsea are maybe 80 points and the likes of Newcastle and Brighton are 70-75 points.

It’ll be really interesting to see if Ruben can get a tune out of them, but patience with the players can’t be endless either. We’re already seeing the contours of a system and there are quite a few players (looking at Rash, Antony, Zirkzee, Case, Eriksen, Lindelöf etc.) that need to show they fit in the system really fast otherwise they should be shipped. Younger players (Amad, Mainoo, Garna, Højlund, Leny) should be given time even if the fit isn’t always obvious (e.g. Garna) because they’ve all shown huge promise and have a lot of scope for growth.

Wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out these players aren’t any good, but also wouldn’t be surprised if they turn into a very good unit either.
 
Rainy nights in Stoke said:
To be honest, it’s really hard to say much conclusively about this squad. Mentality seems iffy, and game intelligence has been poor. But we haven’t had an identity in forever and I feel that’s a lot down to not-great management/coaching and not been able to get any sort of momentum going.

On a scale from 0-100 I’d rate our squad somewhere in the 70-85 range. It’s just a really wide range, cause it’s so unclear how good these players really are. For reference, I’d say Liverpool are probably a 90point squad, City and Arsenal are something like 85 with City having the most age-related problems. Chelsea are maybe 80 points and the likes of Newcastle and Brighton are 70-75 points.

It’ll be really interesting to see if Ruben can get a tune out of them, but patience with the players can’t be endless either. We’re already seeing the contours of a system and there are quite a few players (looking at Rash, Antony, Zirkzee, Case, Eriksen, Lindelöf etc.) that need to show they fit in the system really fast otherwise they should be shipped. Younger players (Amad, Mainoo, Garna, Højlund, Leny) should be given time even if the fit isn’t always obvious (e.g. Garna) because they’ve all shown huge promise and have a lot of scope for growth.

Wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out these players aren’t any good, but also wouldn’t be surprised if they turn into a very good unit either.
Click to expand...
You think our squad is possibly as good as city and arsenal? Are you high?
 
Rainy nights in Stoke said:
Why don’t you engage with the point of the post instead of asking people if they’re high?

I think we don’t know how good the squad is, which is clearly explained in my post.
Click to expand...
I think that is fair, but then suggesting it could be as good as either is crazy. Arsenal being the obvious choice. Our strongest position is defence, as is theirs and theirs is better, and their midfield and attack is better. I think it's silly to even suggest our could be better.
 
Hammondo said:
I think that is fair, but then suggesting it could be as good as either is crazy. Arsenal being the obvious choice. Our strongest position is defence, as is theirs and theirs is better, and their midfield and attack is better. I think it's silly to even suggest our could be better.
Click to expand...
Based on recent performance levels, yeah I’d agree it’s hard to argue our squad could be as good as theirs.

Individual level of ability I don’t know, are we seeing what our players should be capable of with their attributes? We have some players in our attack that could/should perform much better and have shown it at various points in their careers. I don’t think it’s that black and white whether a players in good or not. Players can go from absolute world beaters to quite crap in a different team and context. You don’t have to look further than Sancho or Mkhitaryan for us to see that’s true. It happens the other way around too. Who the hell was Omar Marmoush 2 years ago? I doubt most people would have heard of him. This seasons he’s arguably been the best player in Europe.

All I’m saying is I don’t have a good idea how good they are. I want to believe there are some unpolished diamonds in there that might flourish with better coaching and in a different system. Who knows, maybe they could be as good as Arsenals lot with proper coaching, the right mentality and a little momentum? In all likelihood they aren’t, but don’t you also want to believe that some of them could be?

Currently for me, Saka, Rice and Gabriel are the only Arsenal players I’d say are definitely better than anything we have in the same positions. But things change quickly in football and I might not be as convinced about that this time next year. Also left back to be fair, anything is better than a wheelchair.
 
Rainy nights in Stoke said:
Based on recent performance levels, yeah I’d agree it’s hard to argue our squad could be as good as theirs.

Individual level of ability I don’t know, are we seeing what our players should be capable of with their attributes? We have some players in our attack that could/should perform much better and have shown it at various points in their careers. I don’t think it’s that black and white whether a players in good or not. Players can go from absolute world beaters to quite crap in a different team and context. You don’t have to look further than Sancho or Mkhitaryan for us to see that’s true. It happens the other way around too. Who the hell was Omar Marmoush 2 years ago? I doubt most people would have heard of him. This seasons he’s arguably been the best player in Europe.

All I’m saying is I don’t have a good idea how good they are. I want to believe there are some unpolished diamonds in there that might flourish with better coaching and in a different system. Who knows, maybe they could be as good as Arsenals lot with proper coaching, the right mentality and a little momentum? In all likelihood they aren’t, but don’t you also want to believe that some of them could be?

Currently for me, Saka, Rice and Gabriel are the only Arsenal players I’d say are definitely better than anything we have in the same positions. But things change quickly in football and I might not be as convinced about that this time next year. Also left back to be fair, anything is better than a wheelchair.
Click to expand...
Martin Ødegaard? Timber? Party? White?

All walk into our first 11 imo.
 
It's hars to say with our squad. We have a very imbalanced team. Out of all the players, the only ones you would think should be in / approachig their prime are Bruno, Rashford, Shaw, Martinez, De Ligt, Dalot and Onana. Maybe Ugarte and Antony (purely based on experience and age profile this is).

Too much of that list is either struggling for form, not fit and / or relatively new to the club. Outside of that, we have a lot of potential and a lot of players that have their best days behind them.

I think the word I would use is imbalanced.
 
Sell Casemiro (no legs), Zirkzee (poor), Antony (poor) and Rashford (poor work rate and doesn't fit Amorim's system).
Let Eriksen go (no legs).

Buy:
- CB (young, fast and good on the ball)
- Left Wingback (solid defensively and can run up and down the flank for the whole game)
- Central Midfielder (box to box type)
- Striker to either be the starter up front or pair up with Hojlund

This to say that Man Utd is a few key pieces away from a very very good squad.
Even just 1 or 2 key players in January would have a big impact.
 
P4rthen0n said:
Sell Casemiro (no legs), Zirkzee (poor), Antony (poor) and Rashford (poor work rate and doesn't fit Amorim's system).
Let Eriksen go (no legs).

Buy:
- CB (young, fast and good on the ball)
- Left Wingback (solid defensively and can run up and down the flank for the whole game)
- Central Midfielder (box to box type)
- Striker to either be the starter up front or pair up with Hojlund

This to say that Man Utd is a few key pieces away from a very very good squad.
Even just 1 or 2 key players in January would have a big impact.
Click to expand...
Take Fernandez back home?
 
TheReligion said:
Take Fernandez back home?
Click to expand...
I really hope not. He's having a great season at Benfica.
He has improved a lot since coming to us last season. He would be a steal for 20M€ (it's his supposed buy back clause).

However, you tell me what you would prefer:
1) spending big on someone who's already at the top level (think Nuno Mendes from PSG who is only 22);
2) gamble 20M€ on someone with great potential and who's still improving but you don't know if he'll become world class.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.