All your arguments are good and convincing but this one… It was easier to win more BO with no South American competition… In Zidane’s best years Ronaldo won 2, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho got one each… It’s likely Zidane would have gotten some of those…
Is Mbappe the best french player ever?
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All your arguments are good and convincing but this one… It was easier to win more BO with no South American competition… In Zidane’s best years Ronaldo won 2, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho got one each… It’s likely Zidane would have gotten some of those…
He would have won the Ballon d'Or in 1983, 1984 and 1985 even if you include South American players; this was the era preceding Diego Maradona's peak, and Michel Platini was producing legendary seasons — simply a cut above the likes of Paulo Roberto Falcão, Sócrates, Enzo Francescoli and so forth.
- 1983: Serie A top scorer in his first season in Italy, runner-up in the European Cup (2nd highest number of goals in the competition), Coppa Italia winner.
- 1984: greatest EURO performance of all time and EURO top scorer, Serie A top scorer, Serie A winner, European Cup Winners' Cup winner.
- 1985: first European Cup title for Juventus (this is why they signed Platini), Serie A top scorer...for the third time in as many years, Intercontinental Cup winner.
That's only a good argument if you think that Platini wasn't even in contention but he would have been, he was having all time great seasons. If anything Zidane BO in 1998 is the most dubious of the four BO shared between these players, Zidane should or more accurately could have won it in 2000 but his competition was a European in Figo, the following years Zidane didn't deserve the Ballon d'Or even if it was limited to European players, we are talking about years where Owen, Nedved, Schevchenko or Cannavaro won it.
As great as he was, he doesn't come near Zidane or Platini.
Unless your post was tongue in cheek.
Not really, he's still got a long way to go. But he definitely can overtake them in a couple of years, if he stays at this level.
I struggle to see past this. Mbappé is a great talent and he is going to demolish a few records but to some extent he is in a similar situation to Neymar with Brazil. It's not a given that he is top 10, let alone at the top.
As much as I love Zidane, you're massively playing Platini's achievements down. What he did the Euro 84, WCs 82-86 and for Juventus was incredible. He's also a 3 times Ballon d'Or winner.
Not just about football ….Cantona has more charisma in his little finger than both them two combined
Cantana over him? I know it's a Man United forum but holy moly.
Mbappe has already obliterated Cantona's career goal record and he's only 23. He's also scored more goals for France. He was instrumental in their World Cup win. There is absolutely no metric in which Cantona was better other than 'he played for my team, was cool as feck and an absolute nutter'.
For me Zidane is also extremely overrated. That's not to say he wasn't a fantastic player. He was. People these days seem to think "overrated" means crap. It doesn't. He just isn't in the same tier as guys like Messi, Maradona, Cruyff et al the way his cult like to claim. I wouldn't even have him above guys like Neymar, van Basten, Iniesta, Xavi, Laudrup et al. His touch was sensational and that seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting in regards to his standing in the game but there's more to football than YouTube compilations. The same applies to Bergkamp who is another wildly overrated player for similar reasons but that's an argument for another thread.
Mbappe has already obliterated Cantona's career goal record and he's only 23. He's also scored more goals for France. He was instrumental in their World Cup win. There is absolutely no metric in which Cantona was better other than 'he played for my team, was cool as feck and an absolute nutter'.
For me Zidane is also extremely overrated. That's not to say he wasn't a fantastic player. He was. People these days seem to think "overrated" means crap. It doesn't. He just isn't in the same tier as guys like Messi, Maradona, Cruyff et al the way his cult like to claim. I wouldn't even have him above guys like Neymar, van Basten, Iniesta, Xavi, Laudrup et al. His touch was sensational and that seems to be doing a lot of heavy lifting in regards to his standing in the game but there's more to football than YouTube compilations. The same applies to Bergkamp who is another wildly overrated player for similar reasons but that's an argument for another thread.
Well I'm talking about football and he's absolutely not in the same bracket as the other two.
Zidane whilst being a man of few words and definitely not as flamboyant as Cantona, certainly showed leadership qualities both as a player and as a manager. Platini is very well spoken and also was a charismatic leader both at club and national team level.
Take your red tinted specs off.
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Mbappe is extremely good at a few specific things but his all round game and match contribution is not special. But I think that's the breed of player we are seeing more and more of. Haaland is the absurd extreme in that his dream is to have few touches and ensure they are mostly goals. I still prefer and find more effective footballers who are more complete in nature.
But regardless Mbappe will go down as one of the better French players and will no doubt record some phenomenal numbers. Have to say he has also coincided with a a great generation for French football.
But regardless Mbappe will go down as one of the better French players and will no doubt record some phenomenal numbers. Have to say he has also coincided with a a great generation for French football.
Yeh but can he do it with a Creme Egg on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?
Always the ultimate question. My nan would stand out in the French league and run rings around defences there.
Always the ultimate question. My nan would stand out in the French league and run rings around defences there.
There is a conversation though
French Polls across various platforms voted by French people mostly point to Zidane
Platini was a freak of nature, Zidane was even more freakish
This is a Manchester Utd forum, what do you expect? If you had supported Utd during the 90‘s you would understand.Cantona was a ‘one off’ player. Of his generation, nobody, French or otherwise came anywhere close.
To say Cantona had a God like persona is almost an understatement.
For a Frenchman to come to England, singlehandedly turn round the fortunes of one the Worlds biggest clubs and leave as an icon is unheard of.
When he stepped onto a football pitch he would raise hairs on the back of your neck, it was like theatre. A genuine footballing icon and as such hated by the opposition.
There can only be one “King” and his name is Cantona.
You’re probably right. Tbf I never watched Platini live so my choice is obviously heavily biased towards zidane.
How was Zidane more freakish?
Cantona was a ‘one off’ player. Of his generation, nobody, French or otherwise came anywhere close.
To say Cantona had a God like persona is almost an understatement.
For a Frenchman to come to England, singlehandedly turn round the fortunes of one the Worlds biggest clubs and leave as an icon is unheard of.
When he stepped onto a football pitch he would raise hairs on the back of your neck, it was like theatre. A genuine footballing icon and as such hated by the opposition.
There can only be one “King” and his name is Cantona.
As great a player Cantona was
I mean truly great, I loved hating him purely because he was so great and played for your mob
he still doesn’t get to Polish Zidane or Platini’s boots though
probably not even Mbappes either
His Vision, his grace, his ability to beat a man when seemingly looking like he wasn’t even trying, he floated over the pitch with what looked like no effort what so ever
I liken him to Roger Federer in that sense, balletic and effortless in his style
At his peak he was untouchable no one got near him because he was so far ahead of everyone around him in reading the situation
It wasn’t normal how easy he made the game look
You described Platini...
Of course
Look no one is down crediting Platini
you can’t, the problem with these discussions is it always sound like someone is saying one of the players was rubbish
when you have 2 greats, one will be better, generally, doesn’t mean the other wasn’t great
I just pointed out with you that French polls suggest Zidane is top dog on the GOAT list amongst French greats voted by the French
Naturally followed by Platini as number 2
hardly an insult to the great he was
I think argument being, Cantona was the difference maker and has actually started a new era in England, transforming a good team into a dominant title winning force. While Mbappe does score alot of goals and performs good at all levels, it seems that both France and PSG would have arguably won those trophies with or without Mbappe anyway, which is of course not his fault playing for the best team in France and at international level.
That's not it. I said that Platini is widely seen as the best, I didn't say that it was unanimous because my generation for example would likely favor Zidane while the vast majority before that favored Platini. And you noticed that I didn't really question or insist on the polls because one way or the other online polls are not representative since the population voting for it isn't and older players are almost always downgraded.
I'm much more interested in your opinion and you haven't really given anything to support the idea that Platini is inferior to Zidane, let alone. Objectively Platini is the superior player, he won more, scored more per game, assisted more per game and he is the one with the better performances during tournaments. To me the reason I would put Zidane close to Platini is for something that is highly subjective and a big shallow which is that Zidane was a showman, it's a similar situation to Ronaldinho.
Also your description overrate Zidane, he wasn't far ahead of his competition, someone like Figo was very close to Zidane. And a bunch of players were outperforming him during his prime.
Valid point.
better than Platini at 23? Not sure about that. I don't think a lot of people are quite familiar with Platini....
Thing about Mbappe is he's very hit or miss. But when he's on his game, he's the most exhilarating player on the planet.
As for Platini, he was also a leader. I'd say overall he's the best French player ever.
As for Platini, he was also a leader. I'd say overall he's the best French player ever.
I never disputed the fact that he absolutely was a MU legend and a fantastic footballer, but one has to put things in perspective and be a bit objective.
Cantona was a ‘one off’ player. Of his generation, nobody, French or otherwise came anywhere close.
To say Cantona had a God like persona is almost an understatement.
For a Frenchman to come to England, singlehandedly turn round the fortunes of one the Worlds biggest clubs and leave as an icon is unheard of.
When he stepped onto a football pitch he would raise hairs on the back of your neck, it was like theatre. A genuine footballing icon and as such hated by the opposition.
There can only be one “King” and his name is Cantona.
I think you don't realize that people who grew up with prime Zidane are now in their late 30's/early 40's ^^ Unless you ask the question to football fans, only those above 50 will remember seing Platini play live, hence the poll results.
On top of that, Zidane's aura was kept alive by his performances as a coach when Platini was in an office at UEFA after his... inconsistant coaching carreer.
Add the fact that we don't have that many good quality footage of Platini's prime, it's easy to understand why Zidane would be voted number 1.
Well Polling is one valid way of gauging it, considering speaking to every Frenchman interested in football is impossible, we look at the polls for a guideline. Especially when looking at not just one poll, but dozens, voted by Many thousands over the years. It’s abit more clear cut that saying the guys down the pub all thought Platini.
I don’t need to prove or even convince you into thinking actually…..Zidane was better, because your perfectly entitled to your “opinion” on Platini.
Platini may have more accolades, but player for player I just think Zidane was better
I do realize it, unless you think that I don't realize my own generation. Thos above 50 count and they are 50 now, I also take into account those who in my childhood were already 30 and plus and saw both. The alternative would be for me to ignore anyone older than me or anything shared by people who saw both. It's not as if their views can't be shared?
I wasn't talking about analysis or opinions, i was talking stricly about the poll results. Unless you consider that 40 is "fairly young", the biggest part of the french population will lean towards Zidane. For a reason that I can't really explain, Platini doesn't have as strong a legendary aura as Pelé, Maradona or Cruyff
But you are arguing against something that I didn't say, I said widely not unanimously. Which was in response to someone suggesting that Zidane was the only answer in France which is wrong.
Also I asked for your opinion because it's interesting, I didn't ask you to prove anything, no one suggested that you weren't entitled to your opinion but if you have one that is fairly strong it's interesting for others to know where you are coming from and sharing thoughts. Having Zidane above Platini isn't an issue but it does need to be supported because it's not based on stats or success, one would have to look at the way they played, to me they are clearly top 2 but I give the edge to Platini, because he mixed class and efficiency.
You need to have access to older people in those polls. I don't know much plus 50 people that will go online to answer a poll about Zidane vs Platini. I can see a lot of 20 or 30 years old doing it though.
AFAIK Platini's goal record in the Euro is still unbeaten (9 goals) and he did it in 5 games. Not just stat padding, they were match winning goals. It was Maradona-esque, arguably the best individual performance in the Euros and one of the best ever in any given international tournament. He was captain of two of the greatest french teams in the WC 82 (they should've won that game against Germany and progress to the final, if not for Germany's GK horrendous foul on Battiston) and 86, finishing respectively 3rd and 4th.
Top scorer in three consecutive seasons with Juventus in the Serie A, which was the best league then and a very defensive one, winning every single possible trophy. This as a playmaker, a classic 10, not a striker.
He had everything really. Finishing, good with both feet and his head, dribbling skills, sublime vision, great passing range, fantastic free-kick taker and his ability to deliver in big games. His only "weakness" was his relatively low stamina.
He's a player who's criminally underrated due to recency bias and it's really a toss up between him and Zidane as the best french footballer ever, although every Frenchman I talked to said that Platini is their GOAT.
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Of course people have to try to be objective. Three different great players.
Cantona was a born leader, versatile, comfortable midfield or striker.
Iconic status aside, question being… could either Platini or Zidane have come to Utd and accomplish what Cantona did? ….I seriously doubt it.
at 23 Plattini was still at Nantes
Had a division 2 title and a french cup to his name
18 international caps and 10 goals
Had been in one major tournament with france and eliminated at group stage
148 top flight games and 79 goals and two french player of the year titles
Mbappe has
5 league titles and three french cups
61 caps and 31 international goals
Has won the world cup
356 top flight games and 247 goals to go with his two french player of the year titles
so yeah I'm gonna say I think Mbappe is ahead of a 1978 Platini... of course by 1982- 1985 plattini had become probably the best player in the world (with Maradonna about to surpass him.. not sure Mbappe will develop that far or not)
Cantona wasn't a born leader, he was a petulant baby for the majority of his career. And there is no reason to believe that Platini or Zidane wouldn't have accomplish more than Cantona let alone as much, they were both better Footballers and also better leaders.
I love watching Mbop play. I think he's a more complete attacker than Haaland is, though I wouldn't be surprised if Haaland outscores him.
Nancy, he moved to Saint Etienne that year. At 23 Platini was also selected for the FIFA XI against Argentina alongside plumbers like Boniek, Krol, Zico or Rossi.
You're comparing achievements without taking eras into account. Platini at 23 was a top 5 player in the world himself, in '78 he, Kempes and Maradona were considered the 3 must-sign players by european big clubs (Zico too but signing a player from Flamengo in those years was harder)
Cantona was a ‘one off’ player. Of his generation, nobody, French or otherwise came anywhere close.
To say Cantona had a God like persona is almost an understatement.
For a Frenchman to come to England, singlehandedly turn round the fortunes of one the Worlds biggest clubs and leave as an icon is unheard of.
When he stepped onto a football pitch he would raise hairs on the back of your neck, it was like theatre. A genuine footballing icon and as such hated by the opposition.
There can only be one “King” and his name is Cantona.
Steady on.