He was crying out for the ball but the defenders were too scared to pass it to him.
Is Mainoo the real deal?
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Mainoo and Shaw being two of England's more important players over the tournament is a surprise but it's true. Shaw was an improvement and Mainoo played himself into the side.
They were all shit, but thought Rice was absolutely horrific. Mainoo misplaced some passes and they did a solid job pressing him (probably know exactly how to play against him because he’s the closest thing to a natural Spanish player England have).
Tough day at the office, now back to Manchester and the real football can resume thank feck.
Tough day at the office, now back to Manchester and the real football can resume thank feck.
Oh he's absolutely ready to start them. He wasn't out of place. He's no less ready than Foden, or Rice, or Bellingham, or Kane. When your manager sets your team up in this way, there's not a whole lot to be done. You're relying on a split second moment rather than trying to dictate the game.
Maybe the insane hype should be dialed down a bit after tonight. Will do him more good in the long run.
I just hope we don't give him an insane contract and kill whatever motivation he has to improve because improve he absolutely has to. And a lot.
I just hope we don't give him an insane contract and kill whatever motivation he has to improve because improve he absolutely has to. And a lot.
Rice is a limited player but he does his job defensively, Foden, and Kane especially were just awful. Bellingham has raw physicality ( was basically England's out ball that first half) and gets involved in bigger moments, he still came away with an assist and could have had one more if Watkins took the pass.
But Mainoo looked lost which is understandable for a kid. His passing stats were poor, limited touches on the ball, the game bypassed him in that second half positionally. France dont start with Zaire-Emery or Portugal with Neves or Italy with Ricci, young players can have these sort of games, its better to bring them on as subs.
Also I agree the structure didnt work. England the way they are setup they needed a playmaker to play alongside a DM like Rice..Arsenal did that with Jorginho in the later half of the season. Someone who gets involved and has ability to relieve pressure by playing out passes to spread play,
But tonight really wasn't about his deficiencies, more about deficiencies of Southgate.
It isn't like Mainoo has had a spectacular tournament, but he's shown glimpses of worldclass ability in a team that was actually spectacularly dysfunctional. Tonight he stood no chance in such a setup. I wouldn't pin his poorer performance, if it can even be classed as such, on him.
Is still the real deal and I can't be only one who thought he was decent tonight, surely?
Mainoo is a better player than Zaire Emery, Neves or Ricci. But also, more importantly, England don't have players ahead of him, and not once did he look lost or play poorly. Today Bellingham was ok at best, but like you said, he was an out ball. There was nothing about Mainoo today that was "not ready" or "lost". The true criticism is on Southgate, but if Southgate's plan was to play a "park the bus" system, then yes obviously Mainoo is not the guy for that. Mainoo could slot in that Spain side effortlessly, and look a natural for them more than either of his 2 midfield partners today could. And that's just current level alone.
If Southgate set the team up to defend and sit back and hope for a counter, then his best bet is shove DMs in and hope for the best. Mainoo had a super disciplined game defensively and didn't make any mistakes there anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered. But if you're expecting a #8 to stamp control on the game when his teams plan is to park the bus.... Well then that's just not happening, and the game will bypass them.
Nailed it
He's just turned 19, strength, speed and positional awareness will all improve over time.
I also think your examples of United being terrible and England not scoring goals is somehow related to Mainoo being on the pitch is outrageous.
Mainoo was one of the few high points of United season and England performances were much better since he started the 2nd half of the 3rd game.
Englands goals were mostly late goals or penalties. It's not like they were scoring freely.
It's quite clear he's not the finished article as far as power and stamina are concerned. This is hardly surprising, given he missed most of last pre-season and prior to that he was playing 2 or 3 games a month at academy level.
When he finally got to play for us last season, Ten Hag tried to manage his minutes as best he could considering he was our best and most vital midfielder.
This tournament, the turnover of games was too fast for where he is physically at the moment.
Going forward, I'm sure his physical conditioning will be managed effectively by the club.
When he finally got to play for us last season, Ten Hag tried to manage his minutes as best he could considering he was our best and most vital midfielder.
This tournament, the turnover of games was too fast for where he is physically at the moment.
Going forward, I'm sure his physical conditioning will be managed effectively by the club.
Good post.
I trust him more in a deeper position than Bellingham, which speaks volumes about the polish to his game and his composure at his age.
You're not. He did alright playing under those tactics. England were only interested in playing long balls, it's hard for a player like Mainoo to get involved more when you're hoofing it up to the striker and sitting back. Also his midfield partner has been poor all tournament.
It used to be the opposition fans were the first to stick the boot in on a United player when England lose now it's our own fans doing it to a 19 year old coming off a good tournament and a brilliant debut season for us. Sums up this forum nowadays.
We can say that, I mean he could be sure but thats just not the point. Young players can easily find themselves in games where it passes them by because they are still learning how to react to certain styles of play or opponents. And England not having players for his position is precisely what I said in my original post
Dont think the plan was truly to park the bus but stay disciplined and work the ball when they retrieved it. England had a high line in the first half and were still at times to trying play with Pickford going short but they just weren't able to play it out against the press and had to turn around and go long to Bellingham. When they managed to make it past the initial press they got some openings with Shaw bombing forward but again clearly not enough.
The thing with Mainoo is the lack of involvement once Spain decided to switch things in the 2nd half and create overloads a little further forwards. His positioning to receive the ball in areas where he wouldn't be crowded out, something one could see Foden and Bellingham try, was lacking. I wouldn't blame him for not adapting his defensive positioning because I feel thats down to the Manager's failure to react to the changes from Spain and making England's setup uncoordinated.
Still believe England needed a midfielder who can stay deep and pick out passes and play Mainoo closer to a #10. Could have played Wharton maybe?
They had 30% possession when Spain took the lead. This is a team where half of it is made up of City and Arsenal players who are used to dominating possession in a progressive way. Also Bayern, Real Madrid, United... It's absolutely instruction to only have 30% of the ball against Spain. They wanted to sit, defend deep, don't press, and try to counter directly (but don't include any players who are specialists at counters). So you end up with a nothing of a performance. What is Mainoo going to do there? He's not going to be the out ball, he did what he could (and did a good job) to defend the space but that's all England did in the first half. Then when they went behind, they just didn't know how to actually attack. It's all on Southgate being outclassed.
To put things into perspective is not a strength of some fans it seems. England as a whole struggled and the midfield was bypassed with Pickford hitting it up top. I also noticed that Mainoo was playing deeper than usual, so had less impact in the final third.
Get a rest, let him train and next season he will fly
He struggled a bit but only because he was barely on the ball. He needed someone better than Rice beside him who could also play on the half turn.
This. Been the same all tournament. It's like they're not used to an England player who's press resistant and calm in the middle of the park. Oh, wait.
If you're going to boot it long (inaccurately because your t-rex armed goalie is incompetent) you might as well just play Gallagher who can get about because it's counter to Mainoo's strengths
There is no doubt he is the real deal. However, I wish to see him as the most advanced midfielder in a midfield 3 or one of the midfielders either side of the defensive play-maker in a 4141.
Which is strange because our defenders, for the most part (maybe even Palace do too), play in teams who are much better in possession than United.
I thought the same but I figured that because of this it must be due to instruction.
A certain Paul Scholes said Mainoo is better than he was at that age, so he must be doing something right. He’s young he had a poor game by his standards but was MOTM for England in more than one of the other games. He’s only going to get better and better.
Why do we just assume every footballer has some insane ego and if you hype them a little bit they'll just stop ever improving?
Christ if a young player can't take hype in stride and keep developing they were never going to be worth a feck in the first place. It's such backwards thinking, you don't have to treat everyone with kiddie gloves as a fan.
Our journo friend Steinberg rated his overall tournament performance as a 7, which seems about right. He may not have been England's best player overall but he was the best midfielder. Not bad for a player who just turned 19.
He's enjoying retirement.
Yeah, I think the difference is it's England, for whatever reason – management/playing style, years of failure, the (even) higher pressure, tournament football, lack of time to gel properly...the list goes on.
Mainoo is really talented but he definitely needs coaching to develop how he shows for the ball when his teammates have it. He has a bit of mini-McTominay syndrome in that it looks like he's hiding from the ball at times because he shows no urgency to make himself available for a pass. It's why he drifts out of games some times.
He needs a couple of really good pre seasons to build his physical levels up, but given that he will now be a key player for England going forward it might be difficult to get him that. Going to the Euros is probably great for his confidence and development in many ways but in a selfish short term aspect it may have been better for Utd if he was not picked.
A lot of his success this year will depend on Ten Hag, if we have a repeat of the colossally idiotic midfield shape of last season up to the Arsenal home game then all the midfielders are going to struggle and will be physically wiped trying to cover the space, if Ten Hag chooses to be sensible and plays a more compact midfield then Mainoo can excel.
Like to see him on the ball more and show improvement in his passing range and play through the lines.
A lot of his success this year will depend on Ten Hag, if we have a repeat of the colossally idiotic midfield shape of last season up to the Arsenal home game then all the midfielders are going to struggle and will be physically wiped trying to cover the space, if Ten Hag chooses to be sensible and plays a more compact midfield then Mainoo can excel.
Like to see him on the ball more and show improvement in his passing range and play through the lines.
Mainoo is a v v good young talent and the experience on the International stage will help him.
But, he's still v young and his game is still developing, you can see that, we saw this a few times last season. I said then that he needs a top, more experienced player around him, day-to-day..Ericksen would be perfect in many ways because Ericksen is excellent on the ball, likes to play forward (vertically), and importantly, always has an eye for goal. Mainoo, at his age, shouldn't just be a side-to-side passer. He should be looking to really influence games with his sharpness, ambition, exuberance and freedom.
Alongside Casimero, I do worry a little bit.
But, he's still v young and his game is still developing, you can see that, we saw this a few times last season. I said then that he needs a top, more experienced player around him, day-to-day..Ericksen would be perfect in many ways because Ericksen is excellent on the ball, likes to play forward (vertically), and importantly, always has an eye for goal. Mainoo, at his age, shouldn't just be a side-to-side passer. He should be looking to really influence games with his sharpness, ambition, exuberance and freedom.
Alongside Casimero, I do worry a little bit.
Yeah I would be nervous going into the season if again the main midfield pairing is Mainoo and Case, even with the defensive additions. We definitely need more energy in the midfield as neither of them really give us that.
Like a Manc, born and bred playing at the United academy would even consider going to Spurs.
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Couldn't make this up. He’s the new Pogba.
To be fair he is much more critical of Rice in that piece, but the Mail have gone with the "Naive Mainoo" remark as the headline. Kobbie is still learning the position, he is 19 and spent a season playing in possibly the most inept midfield set up in footballing history, courtesy of Ten Hag, would be a surprise if he was not a little positionally unsure.